Why men are in trouble

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jhansman

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2004
2,768
29
91
I am very sure that the reason that I fail is because I didn't try hard enough.

Well, at the risk of sounding like an armchair psychologist, I'm gonna suggest that another reason might be because you haven't yet learned what success looks like. This has little or nothing to do with effort. Hang in.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Have these women even looked at themselves? lol, when the GIRLS decide to grow up they can call me, until then I've been over playing their games for a few years now and that's why they become "sex objects".

I have noticed that women who behave like overgrown sorority girls are just as prevalent as men who still act like irresponsible bums.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
If anyone's seriously interested in this subject, read the books Why Men Are The Way They Are and The Myth of Male Power by men's movement writer Warren Farrell.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Are-Wa.../dp/042511094X

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Male-Powe.../dp/0425181448

I think I'll pass. From the reviews:

...it isn't surprising that Cammile Paglia supports Warren Farrell. Both of them set up a "straw woman" they call Feminism, invest it with all of their personal disappointments and disagreements with feminism, and tear it to shreds, all the while claiming the insider's knowledge and right to criticize.

The bulk of WMATWTA is Farrell's reading of the articles and advertisements of women's magazines like Cosmopolitan. These magazines have been criticized by feminist writers for decades, not least for appropriating language and jargon from feminist thought to add a liberated edge to a reactionary gender message. So, Farrell parrots what has already been said about the content, but argues that this is what women really want.

Farrell's other project is about the economic relation of the two genders. The way he paints it, men slave away all day, often at dangerous jobs, while women remain safe and sound at home, pocketing the paychecks and complaining that their worn-out husbands don't talk to them. Farrell looks at the military draft of men only, the statistics of workplace injury and illness and the flow of money in the household, and concludes that women really don't want to change society because they benefit from a system that regards men as expendable. What Farrell has stumbled across, but refuses to recognize, is class divisions in society (and race, to a lesser extent). Sure, it's men who get their body parts blown off in foreign jungles or exposed to toxic chemicals, but it is not for the benefit of women as a gender. Rather, it's poor men (and women) who work themselves into an early grave for the benefit of rich men (and women). Remember, "patriarchy" means rule by fathers, not rule by men. (Race adds a further dimension of complexity that Farrel doesn't touch on at all.) To accurately explain the hierarchies of our society, you need to place interactions in the context of race, class and gender. Farrell makes the mistake of trying to shoehorn everything into gender terms, and ignoring the intricacies of the interaction between the three.
 

Stifko

Diamond Member
Dec 8, 1999
4,799
2
81
that is an interesting article. he raises some valid points. he was the drug czar under regan I think
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
2
0
it'll be over in another two generations..... men won't be so whipped that they agree with the fems just to get some
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Nonsense. While your brothers may not have amounted to much, you still can. And perhaps you would have made a better woman, but tough luck. Play the hand you were dealt.

He could always chop his penis off and start the estrogen treatments...
 

CRXican

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
9,062
1
0
Yep, I'm a bum. Can't afford to move out.

Poor choice in college major and no steady job (random jobs) makes me a lameo.
 

Apple Of Sodom

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2007
1,808
0
0
I have a co-worker in her 30s. She has two jobs. Her husband, also in his 30s, hasn't worked for 5 years or so. He is in school part-time (9 credits maybe) and isn't anywhere near getting his degree. He doesn't do the housework. He spends his days drawing and playing video games.

30 years ago, this never would have happened. For some reason today it is acceptable.

Sad. Very sad.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,027
5,912
126
can't say i disagree with the article.

most of my "boys" from growing up are still single and live at home. they are all nearing 30 (as am i). hell one of those friends, who has actually had a consistent job at morgan stanley the past 10 years, JUST got his first credit card. literally a month ago, and his limit is $500. none of them went to college or finished. one of them is still working waiting at restaurants. they all still want to just go bang 18 year olds, but none of them actually do.

it does mimic the article quite a bit, except none of them play video games. i actually play video games myself a lot. but i also have a balance that i feel is good in my life. i'm married 3 years now, just got a huge raise at work that is significantly going to help us, especially next yea when we have a kid and my wife isn't working, we're about to purchsae a home, and we go on 2-3 pretty exotic vacations a year.

it literally is like a totally different lifestyle that i live compared to my friends. i don't hang with them that much anymore, but it isn't because i never go out or anything. my wife and i go out quite often, it is just with a different crowd a lot, because neither of us are looking to find 18 year olds to bang.

i'm not saying anything is wrong w/that, because i am a firm believer of to each their own, i'm just stating that i definitely can see some consistencies with the article and a LOT of the friends i grew up with.

also my little brother in law (17) doesn't hvae a job yet, and my little brother (nearly 19) just got his first job. i was working at the age of 14 while going to school. i definitely see a HUGE laziness factor coming into play with kids growing up now a days, both male and female.

EDIT:

and one of my "boys" from growing up just had his first kid couple months ago, out of wedlock, and him and the mother do not get along. aren't even a couple.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
I fall on both ends of the spectrum. I've made a decent, middle-class living since right after finishing school, own a house, no debt except for my mortgage, etc etc. I can cook & don't allow my place to turn into a disgusting stereotypical bachelor pad. I'm sure Bill Bennett would approve.

OTOH I'm 27 & unmarried, could probably best be described as serially monogamous, and while I'm not against marriage if I found someone really awesome I certainly don't consider it a goal either. I have no particular desire to have kids, and aside from having a reasonably successful career my biggest priority in life is probably enjoying it. I take two or three trips per year and in all honesty kind of shake my head in sadness at people who're stuck at home with kids and for whom a big outing is a trip to the beach. This may mean I fail at this bloviating douchebag's definition of manliness but I don't really care. I support myself and don't bum off of anyone else, and I didn't sign up to be any kind of role model. Maybe prioritizing enjoyment over having kids makes me selfish, but seeing how the world's population is pushing 7 billion people I really fail to see why I should feel obligated to reproduce.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
can't say i disagree with the article.

most of my "boys" from growing up are still single and live at home. they are all nearing 30 (as am i). hell one of those friends, who has actually had a consistent job at morgan stanley the past 10 years, JUST got his first credit card. literally a month ago, and his limit is $500. none of them went to college or finished. one of them is still working waiting at restaurants. they all still want to just go bang 18 year olds, but none of them actually do.

it does mimic the article quite a bit, except none of them play video games. i actually play video games myself a lot. but i also have a balance that i feel is good in my life. i'm married 3 years now, just got a huge raise at work that is significantly going to help us, especially next yea when we have a kid and my wife isn't working, we're about to purchsae a home, and we go on 2-3 pretty exotic vacations a year.

it literally is like a totally different lifestyle that i live compared to my friends. i don't hang with them that much anymore, but it isn't because i never go out or anything. my wife and i go out quite often, it is just with a different crowd a lot, because neither of us are looking to find 18 year olds to bang.

i'm not saying anything is wrong w/that, because i am a firm believer of to each their own, i'm just stating that i definitely can see some consistencies with the article and a LOT of the friends i grew up with.

also my little brother in law (17) doesn't hvae a job yet, and my little brother (nearly 19) just got his first job. i was working at the age of 14 while going to school. i definitely see a HUGE laziness factor coming into play with kids growing up now a days, both male and female.

EDIT:

and one of my "boys" from growing up just had his first kid couple months ago, out of wedlock, and him and the mother do not get along. aren't even a couple.

There aren't enough middle class jobs to go around anymore, I think that's what it boils down to. You can't take your HS diploma to a factory or shop and make $40k, you either go to college (and, increasingly, graduate school) or you end up with a shitty job in retail or a call center or something.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
There aren't enough middle class jobs to go around anymore, I think that's what it boils down to. You can't take your HS diploma to a factory or shop and make $40k, you either go to college (and, increasingly, graduate school) or you end up with a shitty job in retail or a call center or something.

No, there aren't as many unskilled jobs anymore. You can do fine with just a high school diploma but you need marketable skills. We'll always need plumbers and electricians. Hell, in the DC area there are java developers with just a high school diploma who make six-figure salaries, although obviously they've acquired a skillset that's more valuable than a typical college education.
 

TakeNoPrisoners

Platinum Member
Jun 3, 2011
2,599
1
81
lol and people still think feminism is a good thing. They think pushing "girl power" is going to make the world a better place, lol. The Western World hasn't needed feminism in quite a long fucking time, yet it's still in full force. I cannot stand feminists as they believe creating equality through inequality is the right course of measure. Because they were so opressed for years. How many women alive in the USA have been oppressed? How many here remember when they didn't have the right to vote? Not very fucking many. I'm also sick of being called "unresponsible" etc for not being married, for still having room mates and doing what I WANT at 26. Have these women even looked at themselves? lol, when the GIRLS decide to grow up they can call me, until then I've been over playing their games for a few years now and that's why they become "sex objects".

I agree with what you say, but you just seem bitter.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,027
5,912
126
There aren't enough middle class jobs to go around anymore, I think that's what it boils down to. You can't take your HS diploma to a factory or shop and make $40k, you either go to college (and, increasingly, graduate school) or you end up with a shitty job in retail or a call center or something.

you are kind of agreeing with the laziness of the people then. if someone can't get a job straight out of highschool making $40k/yr, why not go to school to learn how to be able to do that? simple reason is because they are lazy.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,027
5,912
126
I fall on both ends of the spectrum. I've made a decent, middle-class living since right after finishing school, own a house, no debt except for my mortgage, etc etc. I can cook & don't allow my place to turn into a disgusting stereotypical bachelor pad. I'm sure Bill Bennett would approve.

OTOH I'm 27 & unmarried, could probably best be described as serially monogamous, and while I'm not against marriage if I found someone really awesome I certainly don't consider it a goal either. I have no particular desire to have kids, and aside from having a reasonably successful career my biggest priority in life is probably enjoying it. I take two or three trips per year and in all honesty kind of shake my head in sadness at people who're stuck at home with kids and for whom a big outing is a trip to the beach. This may mean I fail at this bloviating douchebag's definition of manliness but I don't really care. I support myself and don't bum off of anyone else, and I didn't sign up to be any kind of role model. Maybe prioritizing enjoyment over having kids makes me selfish, but seeing how the world's population is pushing 7 billion people I really fail to see why I should feel obligated to reproduce.

before i make my statement, i just want to reiterate that i am all for the "to each their own"...

as far as taking 2-3 trips a year, you can still do those while married. my wife and i both basically have the biggest priority in life to enjoy life as you do, and we do that by going on a lot of nice trips.

when i talk about my "boys" in my above post, THEIR vacations currently are driving 3 hours to the beach for a weekend, and partying their asses off, like twice a year. while on the other hand, the vacations my wife and i go on, are typically out of the country on some white sand/clear water beach. i shake my head at those guys, similarly to how you shake your head at the other people.

if you have a good time doing them by yourself, it is even more fun when you do it with friends. when you do it with friends, it is even more fun to do it with your partner. we don't have kids yet, but when we do, we plan to take them traveling with us (when they are old enough of course, luckily our parents live near us so we can drop the kids off there for the week when we go on our vacations when they are younger). and while i can't say for certain, but i'm pretty sure it is going to be even more fun when we can take our kids on trips.

i already think about how much i love to go snorkeling and exploring when we go on vacations. on our last trip to cancun, we took my younger brother with us, and it was so much fun just showing him about a place like cancun and doing all this new stuff he's never done. one of the joys i look forward to in the future is being able to take my own kid to do things like that.

but again, you definitely gotta do what is best for yourself and most important to yourself to enjoy life as you can.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,230
12,562
136
All you have to do is watch television. Both the shows (sitcoms) and commercials reflect the loss of manliness in the USA.

This commercial shows it very clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWGkeVVO0I

There's nothing wrong with a man changing a diaper...but he folds under the gaze of his wife...he's apparently not allowed to talk football with his friend while changing a diaper...fucking de-nutted pussy...

Shows and commercials show men as either weak or stupid...or both...and show how superior the female of the species is as compared to the male...
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
you are kind of agreeing with the laziness of the people then. if someone can't get a job straight out of highschool making $40k/yr, why not go to school to learn how to be able to do that? simple reason is because they are lazy.

Wouldn't matter. Russia and India are full of college educated unemployed, it's why we build call centers there. The situation isn't as bad here yet but we might be producing too many college grads already.
 

CRXican

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
9,062
1
0
you are kind of agreeing with the laziness of the people then. if someone can't get a job straight out of highschool making $40k/yr, why not go to school to learn how to be able to do that? simple reason is because they are lazy.

school costs money?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
<-- 33 y/o

Making great money, have a house, car, and a lifestyle I like. I do what I want be that playing video games, sports, drinking, working, or whatever. I get regular poon from a great looking woman. What more out of life could I possibly want?
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
when i talk about my "boys" in my above post, THEIR vacations currently are driving 3 hours to the beach for a weekend, and partying their asses off, like twice a year. while on the other hand, the vacations my wife and i go on, are typically out of the country on some white sand/clear water beach. i shake my head at those guys, similarly to how you shake your head at the other people.

When I made my comment about shaking my head it wasn't meant to show disapproval, it just showed how some people's wants and priorities are different from others. Some people's big dream really is to get married right after college and have a bunch of kids in the suburbs. If that makes them happy then that's awesome, but to me it sounds about as appealing as being sent to a labor camp. I'm honestly not capable of imagining myself caring about a kid's soccer game/dance recital/etc.

Re: still having fun while married, I understand that. That's why I said I'm not against getting married, but for me to want to get married would require a very particular type of person. I'm certainly not getting married for its own sake.
 
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