Why men are in trouble

[ichy]

<-- 33 y/o

Making great money, have a house, car, and a lifestyle I like. I do what I want be that playing video games, sports, drinking, working, or whatever. I get regular poon from a great looking woman. What more out of life could I possibly want?

My one concern about not having kids is being alone with no caretakers when I'm old. Even there though, I freely admit my motivations are selfish. That probably means I'd be a crappy parent.

 

[SP33Demon]

When I made my comment about shaking my head it wasn't meant to show disapproval, it just showed how some people's wants and priorities are different from others. Some people's big dream really is to get married right after college and have a bunch of kids in the suburbs. If that makes them happy then that's awesome, but to me it sounds about as appealing as being sent to a labor camp. I'm honestly not capable of imagining myself caring about a kid's soccer game/dance recital/etc.

Re: still having fun while married, I understand that. That's why I said I'm not against getting married, but for me to want to get married would require a very particular type of person. I'm certainly not getting married for its own sake.

Having a family takes a certain type of maturity. Don't feel bad, everyone matures at different rates.

 

[ichy]

Having a family takes a certain type of maturity. Don't feel bad, everyone matures at different rates.

There you go, acting like "having a family" should be some sort of mandatory life goal for everyone.

 

[Cookie]

Having a family takes a certain type of maturity. Don't feel bad, everyone matures at different rates.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. It also takes a certain type of immaturity to have a family before you are prepared to do so, emotionally and financially (I know, I know, no one is ever REALLY ready) or before you have met the right partner to share that task with you.

 

[0roo0roo]

well there is no simplistic equality, 90&#37; of the prison population remains male, and will stay that way.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I blame global warming on the equality movements. The more equal others got to the White Male, the more the Earth heated up. disprove me please.

 

[SP33Demon]

There you go, acting like "having a family" should be some sort of mandatory life goal for everyone.

Nah, not mandatory. But it does force you to mature in a much different way vice just being married perpetually in that you will have many more responsibilities.

 

[piasabird]

Cant get a job because all the women stole them.

 

[ShawnD1]

Shows and commercials show men as either weak or stupid...or both...and show how superior the female of the species is as compared to the male...

At this point it's pretty much true. There are still good guys out there but the numbers are fading. At the same time, more and more women are becoming educated and working jobs of relatively high importance.

Actually, it's not that bad. Gender roles are a lot less rigid these days. A woman showed me how to patch a car tire and guys are expected to know how to change a diaper without causing the baby to bleed.

 

[0roo0roo]

I think I'll pass. From the reviews:

Warren farrell was on the board of directors of the national organisation for women. So you were saying? You choose a review that would fit your bias regardless of whether it was just total bs or not.

 

[pcgeek11]

There is a massive role reversal going on world wide. The evidence is strong reading the forum. Lots of girly men post.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I think I'll pass. From the reviews:

Referring to the books Why Men Are the Way They Are and The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Are-Wa.../dp/042511094X

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Male-Powe.../dp/0425181448

Those negative reviews you quoted were probably from angry Marxist gender-feminists who disagree that men are equally oppressed by gender roles and conditioned by society to behave in certain ways as opposed to being inherently irrational or destructive. Surely there must be a great many positive reviews for both books, too.

Also, you might find it interesting to note that Farrell was a male feminist before he became a men's movement writer. He was even a member of the NOW board for a couple years. During his time as a male feminist he witnessed how poorly men were doing and wanted to investigate why.

Women should definitely read those two books for a different perspective on male-female dynamics that "rings true for men". It would really help women understand men better and have better relationships. Single women might learn a lot about how to better meet good men.

Of course, if you want to continue believing men=bad women=good then go right ahead. If you want to be ignorant and continue believing that males have all of the power in society and that they aren't influenced by sex roles, culture, and upbringing, but are merely inferior to women, go right ahead.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There are still good guys out there but the numbers are fading. At the same time, more and more women are becoming educated and working jobs of relatively high importance.

You say that the number of "good guys" is fading. What do you mean when you say "good guys"? What makes a man a "good guy"?

Many women might say that part of being a "good guy" is being a good mate which requires that a man have a good job that can support a woman as a stay at home mom if that's what she wants to do.

 

[0roo0roo]

Referring to the books Why Men Are the Way They Are and The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Are-Wa.../dp/042511094X

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Male-Powe.../dp/0425181448

Those negative reviews you quoted were probably from angry Marxist gender-feminists who disagree that men are equally oppressed by gender roles and conditioned by society to behave in certain ways as opposed to being inherently irrational or destructive. Surely there must be a great many positive reviews for both books, too.

Also, you might find it interesting to note that Farrell was a male feminist before he became a men's movement writer. He was even a member of the NOW board for a couple years. During his time as a male feminist he witnessed how poorly men were doing and wanted to investigate why.

Women should definitely read those two books for a different perspective on male-female dynamics that "rings true for men". It would really help women understand men better and have better relationships. Single women might learn a lot about how to better meet good men.

Of course, if you want to continue believing men=bad women=good then go right ahead. If you want to be ignorant and continue believing that males have all of the power in society and that they aren't influenced by sex roles, culture, and upbringing, but are merely inferior to women, go right ahead.

he also has a good book on why men earn more....that dispells many myths about the whole 75cents on the dollar often quoted. the devils always in the details

 

[Ronstang]

Men have been in trouble for quite some time. When I was young men spent most of their time trying to get into vaginas, today men have mostly turned into vaginas. Reading this forum is evidence enough.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

who the hell is this fat old clown bill bennett to be preaching to anyone. he is a serious gambling addict and alcoholic and couldnt even admit it. go work on your own problems idiot and leave the kids alone

 

[Doppel]

Did not read link but no amount of so-called progressive ideas that a conventional nuclear family is no better than others will make it so. The kids are way more likely to fail and as long as these failed offspring don't kill mine it will be less job competition for my better adjusted kids not reared on bullshit that happens to be the latest parenting trend of the day. Modern society is heavy on comfort and light on substance. I've seen kids at restaurants on their devices totally divorced of their family. And many ready to mock religion but see no issue in their own idolatry of debt bought toys.

 

[Blackjack200]

Those negative reviews you quoted were probably from angry Marxist gender-feminists who disagree that men are equally oppressed by gender roles and conditioned by society to behave in certain ways as opposed to being inherently irrational or destructive. Surely there must be a great many positive reviews for both books, too.

The reviews are mostly positive, I read a bunch of them, but they were the mostly the kind of brainless drivel you would expect from a book meant to affirm a bunch of angry idiots.

Also, you might find it interesting to note that Farrell was a male feminist before he became a men's movement writer. He was even a member of the NOW board for a couple years. During his time as a male feminist he witnessed how poorly men were doing and wanted to investigate why.

Nope, don't find it particularly interesting at all. I don't have much use for NOW either.

Women should definitely read those two books for a different perspective on male-female dynamics that "rings true for men". It would really help women understand men better and have better relationships. Single women might learn a lot about how to better meet good men.

That's like saying scientists should read a book on intelligent design for another perspective.

Of course, if you want to continue believing men=bad women=good then go right ahead. If you want to be ignorant and continue believing that males have all of the power in society and that they aren't influenced by sex roles, culture, and upbringing, but are merely inferior to women, go right ahead.

lol, nice strawman. Farrell has taught you well.

 

[ichy]

Just to be clear, I am anti-Bill Bennett. The man was one of the leading proponents of the War on Drugs that has destroyed this country. Still, even a sanctimonious old asshole can be right about a few things.

 

[sandorski]

It's always humorous to see men whining about whiny men.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The reviews are mostly positive, I read a bunch of them, but they were the mostly the kind of brainless drivel you would expect from a book meant to affirm a bunch of angry idiots.

And the negative reviews were not similarly mindless drivel? What do you expect a positive review to say other than, "It's a good book."?

Nope, don't find it particularly interesting at all. I don't have much use for NOW either.

The point is that he has the ability to see things from the feminists' perspective and has some sympathy for their point of view. It adds credibility to his work.

That's like saying scientists should read a book on intelligent design for another perspective.

What specifically do you disagree with in those two books? What is the correct perspective in your view?

 

[Blackjack200]

And the negative reviews were not similarly mindless drivel? What do you expect a positive review to say other than, "It's a good book."?

I'd expect it to tell my why it's a good book.

The point is that he has the ability to see things from the feminists' perspective and has some sympathy for their point of view. It adds credibility to his work.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that NOW is another organization for the perpetually victimized. The one difference being that 40 years ago they did have a legitimate gripe.

What specifically do you disagree with in those two books? What is the correct perspective in your view?

I haven't read either book, I would be willing to read them but not buy them, so maybe I'll see if I can get them at the library or something. But I suspect that he's arguing that society has become anti-man by nature, and I think that's BS.

In my mind there are certain things that are biased unfairly against men; one example is family law, and another is the draft. It's easier to work to resolve those kinds of problems if you don't come to the table convinced that your entire sex is already hanging from a cross.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I haven't read either book, I would be willing to read them but not buy them, so maybe I'll see if I can get them at the library or something. But I suspect that he's arguing that society has become anti-man by nature, and I think that's BS.

In my mind there are certain things that are biased unfairly against men; one example is family law, and another is the draft. It's easier to work to resolve those kinds of problems if you don't come to the table convinced that your entire sex is already hanging from a cross.

Definitely check out Why Men Are The Way They Are if you're interested in male-female dynamics. It shouldn't be too hard to find at a library. Why Men Are the Way They Are is more about how men's adaptations to what women seem to want in a man (rich, hero, manly, good provider), or at least men's perceptions of that, and how we have been socialized to play different sex roles end up being detrimental to men. It's essential reading for any woman who wants to understand male psychology.

 

[TheVrolok]

All you have to do is watch television. Both the shows (sitcoms) and commercials reflect the loss of manliness in the USA.

This commercial shows it very clearly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWGkeVVO0I

There's nothing wrong with a man changing a diaper...but he folds under the gaze of his wife...he's apparently not allowed to talk football with his friend while changing a diaper...fucking de-nutted pussy...

Shows and commercials show men as either weak or stupid...or both...and show how superior the female of the species is as compared to the male...

This commercial blew my mind when I first saw it. I felt exactly the same way. What is the big deal about changing a diaper? And what the Hell is the deal with not being able to talk to a friend about football while you're doing it? I don't get it at all.

 

[AMDZen]

There you go, acting like "having a family" should be some sort of mandatory life goal for everyone.

Agreed. Stupid society is stupid.