Why millennials can't land jobs

[purbeast0]

call me superficial or whatever, but to me someone who doesn't like or want to wear a suit (when appropriate mind you, not like wanting to wear a suit while running to the grocery store) shows a lack of confidence to me.

 

[sze5003]

call me superficial or whatever, but to me someone who doesn't like or want to wear a suit (when appropriate mind you, not like wanting to wear a suit while running to the grocery store) shows a lack of confidence to me.

Or just lazy and doesn't care about how people perceive them.

 

[destrekor]

call me superficial or whatever, but to me someone who doesn't like or want to wear a suit (when appropriate mind you, not like wanting to wear a suit while running to the grocery store) shows a lack of confidence to me.

Or just lazy and doesn't care about how people perceive them.

See?
I doubt anyone read my post, but I knew it. This is why I'm screwed: quick and ignorant judgment.

 

[sze5003]

See?
I doubt anyone read my post, but I knew it. This is why I'm screwed: quick and ignorant judgment.

I don't get it. I know wearing a suit can be a pain and I would not like it either if I had to wear one every day for work.

But to refuse it when it's commonly known that's what you wear at an interview, that's a problem. Sometimes you gotta do stuff in life that you don't like, that's how it goes.
Sure some companies may not care about dress attire at an interview for example a small startup or something but big companies do judge you.

And I didn't see your last post, too much sifting through all the crap and arguing.

 

[destrekor]

I don't get it. I know wearing a suit can be a pain and I would not like it either if I had to wear one every day for work.

But to refuse it when it's commonly known that's what you wear at an interview, that's a problem. Sometimes you gotta do stuff in life that you don't like, that's how it goes.
Sure some companies may not care about dress attire at an interview for example a small startup or something but big companies do judge you.

And I didn't see your last post, too much sifting through all the crap and arguing.

Well, considering not one point of your reply applies to my particular reason, I'll point you to my previous post because I explained it there.

 

[sze5003]

Ah I see what you meant. I'm skinny as well and had a concave pec at one point. I usually would wear either tight fit dress shirts or a little bigger which would then be covered by my jacket.

The suit combo actually makes me look bigger because of that but it looked pretty even. It's hard finding dress shirts when you are tall and skinny. One wash and they shrink if not done right.

I'll admit I look odd in a suit too but I've tried to make up for it by either getting everything the same size or wearing my jacket over if the shirt appears too big.

 

[destrekor]

Ah I see what you meant. I'm skinny as well and had a concave pec at one point. I usually would wear either tight fit dress shirts or a little bigger which would then be covered by my jacket.

The suit combo actually makes me look bigger because of that but it looked pretty even. It's hard finding dress shirts when you are tall and skinny. One wash and they shrink if not done right.

I'll admit I look odd in a suit too but I've tried to make up for it by either getting everything the same size or wearing my jacket over if the shirt appears too big.

Shirt fit is one thing, but I can't "cover up" with a suit jacket. The front of the jacket, or most especialy the material in-between the shoulders and first button, never looks right. It basically bunches and creates a significant gap between where the jacket material "falls" and where my chest is/where the shirt lays.
What I think is also part of the issue is my shoulders are wider than my basic chest frame would ordinarily suggest based on averages (if my chest was "normal", perhaps it would be a good ratio?).

I just can't look well-tailored - and looking like you are NOT well tailored, in my opinion, is worse than not wearing a suit or jacket at all.

Considering I have been jobless for a few months now, and have actively interviewed, perhaps I need to bite down, waste money of tailoring, and hope someone overlooks the oddity. If I've been passed over based on looks alone though, I'm probably fucked either way.

 

[purbeast0]

See?
I doubt anyone read my post, but I knew it. This is why I'm screwed: quick and ignorant judgment.

well i did read your post, and it's evident that you clearly DO lack confidence and even explain in your post exactly why you lack confidence in wearing a suit because you think it makes you look awkward.

 

[sze5003]

Shirt fit is one thing, but I can't "cover up" with a suit jacket. The front of the jacket, or most especialy the material in-between the shoulders and first button, never looks right. It basically bunches and creates a significant gap between where the jacket material "falls" and where my chest is/where the shirt lays.
What I think is also part of the issue is my shoulders are wider than my basic chest frame would ordinarily suggest based on averages (if my chest was "normal", perhaps it would be a good ratio?).

I just can't look well-tailored - and looking like you are NOT well tailored, in my opinion, is worse than not wearing a suit or jacket at all.

Considering I have been jobless for a few months now, and have actively interviewed, perhaps I need to bite down, waste money of tailoring, and hope someone overlooks the oddity. If I've been passed over based on looks alone though, I'm probably fucked either way.

All you can do is try your best to make it fit. How much is tailoring going to cost? I would assume that if the interviewer sees you put effort by dressing appropriately, the "oddity" you describe will be overlooked. I would not care how dimensional someone may look in a suit as long as I see that they put effort to dress seriously if the work environment for those interviews has suits as a norm.

 

[Wonderful Pork]

Considering I have been jobless for a few months now, and have actively interviewed, perhaps I need to bite down, waste money of tailoring, and hope someone overlooks the oddity. If I've been passed over based on looks alone though, I'm probably fucked either way.

You shouldn't be passed over on looks alone (especially such a minor "problem").

Sounds like a self confidence issue more than anything else. Hypothetically what would you do if you were fat, not tuck in a shirt until you lost weight?

Own your issues, and that confidence will carry over into the interviews and make you a better candidate.

 

[Chapbass]

Shirt fit is one thing, but I can't "cover up" with a suit jacket. The front of the jacket, or most especialy the material in-between the shoulders and first button, never looks right. It basically bunches and creates a significant gap between where the jacket material "falls" and where my chest is/where the shirt lays.
What I think is also part of the issue is my shoulders are wider than my basic chest frame would ordinarily suggest based on averages (if my chest was "normal", perhaps it would be a good ratio?).

I just can't look well-tailored - and looking like you are NOT well tailored, in my opinion, is worse than not wearing a suit or jacket at all.

Considering I have been jobless for a few months now, and have actively interviewed, perhaps I need to bite down, waste money of tailoring, and hope someone overlooks the oddity. If I've been passed over based on looks alone though, I'm probably fucked either way.

Des, do you have a pic of you in a suit that you can send me? Where do you normally get your suits?

 

[Ns1]

@des

The point is you tried to put the effort in. Not that your chest is concaved. I'd look at your resume and interview techniques before looking to buy a custom tailored suit.

(I'm assuming you are wearing a suit to interviews. Sorry forgot what you said earlier and too lazy to scroll back)

 

[JM Aggie08]

Shirt fit is one thing, but I can't "cover up" with a suit jacket. The front of the jacket, or most especialy the material in-between the shoulders and first button, never looks right. It basically bunches and creates a significant gap between where the jacket material "falls" and where my chest is/where the shirt lays.
What I think is also part of the issue is my shoulders are wider than my basic chest frame would ordinarily suggest based on averages (if my chest was "normal", perhaps it would be a good ratio?).

I just can't look well-tailored - and looking like you are NOT well tailored, in my opinion, is worse than not wearing a suit or jacket at all.

Considering I have been jobless for a few months now, and have actively interviewed, perhaps I need to bite down, waste money of tailoring, and hope someone overlooks the oddity. If I've been passed over based on looks alone though, I'm probably fucked either way.

It's not a waste if it helps get you a paycheck.

I feel ya though - I have to spend gobs of money to get my clothes to fit correctly.

 

[destrekor]

well i did read your post, and it's evident that you clearly DO lack confidence and even explain in your post exactly why you lack confidence in wearing a suit because you think it makes you look awkward.

When you know how people look at your clothing, you also realize WHY.
I wouldn't feel awkward if the judgment didn't exist. Clearly, it does, so I have a strong reason to fear presenting an awkward appearance.

I'd say I feel more confident without a suit, so I try to roll with that.


Granted, I haven't tried a billion different suits, so maybe there is something that can fit me with decent tailoring... I just know that kind of "requirement" is going to make the total expense that much larger.

 

[poofyhairguy]

looking like you are NOT well tailored, in my opinion, is worse than not wearing a suit or jacket at all.

Sure if we are talking about aesthetic and practical value. But for this issue that is not the case. For this issue is the the value of meeting expectations. If an interviewer expects you to wear a suit, then even a poorly fitting suit is better than no suit.

I feel like it is the same as those who hire who demand a college degree, even when its not in a relevant field. The common excuse given is that "it shows the person can follow through with something," but I think it is more "this person was willing to play by the rules of someone else even when it sucked for them personally." Even the easiest four year college degree plan has something that sucks if only because of minimum requirements.

Wearing a suit, even a poorly fitting suit, says "I am a team player, even if the reasoning is stupid." That is what an employer wants- someone willing to take orders, maybe even from someone not as smart/talented as them, and get the job done.

By making the suit mandatory you weed out those special snowflake know-it-alls who question every assignment and order because they know a better way to do things.

 

[destrekor]

You shouldn't be passed over on looks alone (especially such a minor "problem").

Sounds like a self confidence issue more than anything else. Hypothetically what would you do if you were fat, not tuck in a shirt until you lost weight?

Own your issues, and that confidence will carry over into the interviews and make you a better candidate.

I'll admit there's a significant confidence issue in the appearance department, something I've tried to fight forever. It's all squarely centered on my chest, always has been.

Always been jealous of people with well-fitted clothes. I can get great fitting pants, I've got that working for me... but not anything upper-body related.


Everyone else:
Fair points, all around. I'll have to give some consideration to a few things... I haven't really looked too deeply into this.

 

[destrekor]

Des, do you have a pic of you in a suit that you can send me? Where do you normally get your suits?

I don't have suits. I've rented tuxes, had a sport coat in high school, and have a military-equivalent of a suit that has been tailored twice.

I haven't wanted to bother with suits at this point in my life (mid 20s) because I haven't felt like my career level has been at the point where it's worth the expense of a suit (and tailor) that won't last long at all (considering I am trying to change my body to better fill in shirts/jackets, as opposed to only get clothes tailored to it).

 

[sze5003]

Being tall and lanky sucks. Nothing fits right unless you look for certain model shirts and cuts which is a pain. One day I'll buy a dress shirt and it looks great a week later my gf has washed it and my sleeves feel like they have been cut.

I hate shopping so I try to do it as little as I can. Normally I get clothes for gifts which I don't mind. But any other type of clothing non work related I just buy medium depending on the cut.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't have suits. I've rented tuxes, had a sport coat in high school, and have a military-equivalent of a suit that has been tailored twice.

I haven't wanted to bother with suits at this point in my life (mid 20s) because I haven't felt like my career level has been at the point where it's worth the expense of a suit (and tailor) that won't last long at all (considering I am trying to change my body to better fill in shirts/jackets, as opposed to only get clothes tailored to it).

I feel you on that last point. I swing so wildly in weight over a year one suit doesn't work. That is why I pounced on one of those two-for-one specials. One is my fat suit, the other is my skinny suit. That way I have something I can wear whenever. Neither look amazing, but they check the box.

 

[HumblePie]

I have been in many an interview and given more than a few for developer positions. Here are my experiences and expectations from both sides.

From the perspective side of going into an interview, this is what I do to prepare. Why do I prepare? Preparation shows enthusiasm to wanting to work and a good attitude towards doing a job. When you are out of work, your job is finding work. You take the proper steps to complete that "job" like any other job. So this is what I always do.

1) Make sure my resume is in order. I typically have a 2 page general technical resume about my skill sets and a general bit of job history in what I've previously done. I also spend time making my resume look neat, organized, and free of grammar problems. I have it read over and corrected by others if need be.

2) I read about the position/company I am applying towards, and if need be tailor a special resume for the position. Which usually includes expanding details of what I've done previously that may share commonalities with the position in terms of daily job duties required. It's basically emphasizing my job experience in the past that may align with the new position.

3) I look over my wardrobe and typically go shopping within my current budget to pick out nice fitting new slacks, dress shoes, dress socks, belt, and a long-sleeve button down shirt. Possibly a tie as well. I have a few rarely worn sports coats that I can slip on if needed for an interview in a place that usually requires a tighter dress code from their employees. If the place is casual dress, I skip the tie and coat. If it's business casual I wear the tie. If it's semi formal (ie the employees are expected to wear at least a tie) then I wear my sports coat. If the place expects me to wear a suit every day I don't bother with the position. Period. I know where I want to work and any place that makes me as a developer wear a suit every day is not a place I want to work.

4) While reading up on the company and position, I take down notes which includes specific questions about the place I am going to work.

5) I read up on the relevant type of coding info type questions that the position would ask of me. I know development, but like most developers the go to resources like Google, Stack Overflow, and other code developer sites are where I usually end up looking for a solution. Too much to keep memorized. However, it doesn't hurt to cram in the basics all over again in my head in a format that is good for answering "text book" style questions that pop up in an interview.

6) I make sure I have a good hair cut and trim nails. Before the interview I shower and make sure I look as nice and presentable as possible. I don't wear any strong smelling cologne nor deodorant.

7) I practice smiling and talking in front of a mirror and do a mock interview or two with friend/family that can spare the time.

8) I go in with school "portfolio" folder with 5 printed copies of my resume. I also have some scratch paper, and some printed samples of code I've done. I also bring in a thumb drive of code samples I've done in the past. Nothing that would be considered private info from previous positions, but general code routines like library style routines or web page examples.

9) During the interview it is about smiling, being polite, not using "guarding" style mannerisms like crossing your arms or legs for too long. I try to present a cheery and good attitude to the interview the entire time. I turn my phone off as well. I answer all questions to the best of my ability. Anything I don't know the answer off the top of my head I say I don't know, but I explain how I would find the answer. An interviewer is not looking always to see if I am a robot that has every facet of coding info memorized exactly in my head. They want to see how well I can resolve a problem.

Usually the only reason I don't get an offer on the spot after an interview is typically one of the following:

1) Pay/benefits are mutually agreeable. It happens sometimes I value myself more than what a company is willing to pay. If the offer is close I am will to negotiate some every time. If the company low balls me I politely thank them and see myself out the door. It hasn't happened often, but it has happened.

2) The company is looking for a robot with everything memorized in their head. Some places have positions that must be filled with very specific people. I don't always meet that. It happens. I thank them and move on.



When I interview others I do everything above in what I look for in a candidate. I look to see if the person made an effort to present themselves as a potential candidate for a given position. While I wouldn't hire or not hire someone based off how well they dressed for the interview solely, if I have two or more equally viable potential candidates that have applied for the position, the one that looks to go to the extra effort is going to be the one I pick first. Unlike some interviewers, I don't try to grill applicants with nuanced minutia of coding knowledge questions. Seeing people "squirm" in an interview does not give me any jollies. I usually come prepared with 3-4 simple coding questions and 2-3 "harder" ones based on how well the candidate has answer the easier ones. Even if the candidate doesn't answer the question just right, that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for how the candidate approaches the problem. Are they bullshitting and lying to me? Some have done that and flat out made up an answer. That is a big "see you out the door and don't let it smack you on the ass on your way out" reaction from me if a candidate does that. A person that does the instant response of "Don't remember, next question please" gets basically the same response from me as the bullshitter gets from me.

What I want is someone to take a moment to think, possibly ask a clarification question, and if they can't figure it out say they don't know right now, but either explained how they did something similar before and how they solved it, or what steps they would take to solve it. I also like to ask a couple of personal questions to see the personality of the person as well. A little arrogance that may be from confidence doesn't put me off unless there is a complete lack of respect from the other person. Which I haven't seen often, but I have seen. So basically as an interviewer these are the things I look for in a candidate.

1) Knowledge and ability to do the job. Someone that can't hack it won't get it.
2) Personality. As noted previously, no one wants to work with an asshole.
3) Preparation and effort for the interview. If the previous two categories are equal between candidates, this is the tie breaker for me.

 

[apac]

I don't have suits. I've rented tuxes, had a sport coat in high school, and have a military-equivalent of a suit that has been tailored twice.

I haven't wanted to bother with suits at this point in my life (mid 20s) because I haven't felt like my career level has been at the point where it's worth the expense of a suit (and tailor) that won't last long at all (considering I am trying to change my body to better fill in shirts/jackets, as opposed to only get clothes tailored to it).

I'm 6'2" and 140 lbs. I have 2 suits I bought at a B1G1$100 sale at men's warehouse. The suits I had tailored as well, and I think the total cost came out to about $200/suit. They fit very well, and I'm happy to wear them to weddings, etc. It was totally worth it - the black, poorly fit sport jacket I'd had since high school just wasn't cutting it.

I also bought a few shirts at about $50/each that I only dry clean. They still fit the same as when I bought them. I suppose I could get them tailored as well but they fit pretty well as is.

Being an odd size means expensive clothing, especially with nice clothes. Just a heads up from someone who sympathizes.

edit: in b4 "eat a sandwich" . Most days I don't calorie count, but when I work out I do, and I have to eat 3000+ calories/day to maintain weight. 3500+ to put on anything, and it all comes off if there's cardio. Some people are just born skinny.

 

[Chapbass]

I don't have suits. I've rented tuxes, had a sport coat in high school, and have a military-equivalent of a suit that has been tailored twice.

I haven't wanted to bother with suits at this point in my life (mid 20s) because I haven't felt like my career level has been at the point where it's worth the expense of a suit (and tailor) that won't last long at all (considering I am trying to change my body to better fill in shirts/jackets, as opposed to only get clothes tailored to it).

I'm not sure where you live, or where your price point is for that matter, but when you're ready I would look into a custom suit from a place like Indochino. Their quality is decent, can you can have it made for you for a relatively cheap price (I think their basic suits are like $350?). They have a service called a Travelling Tailor where you can go for free and have them measure you and send you a suit in a few weeks. They had one in Chicago last year (and have one going on again right now I think) that I did, and the suit came out great. I'm sure it would be a ton cheaper than getting an off the rack suit for a few hundred and then spending a boatload trying to make it look right.

 

[SP33Demon]

I don't have suits. I've rented tuxes, had a sport coat in high school, and have a military-equivalent of a suit that has been tailored twice.

I haven't wanted to bother with suits at this point in my life (mid 20s) because I haven't felt like my career level has been at the point where it's worth the expense of a suit (and tailor) that won't last long at all (considering I am trying to change my body to better fill in shirts/jackets, as opposed to only get clothes tailored to it).

Hey D, regarding your deformity, can't you wear something? Like say, similar to a bra with padding or something underneath the shirt?

 

[Ns1]

@HumblePie

That requires like work dude. There are some on this forum who won't even tailor a resume for the job at hand.

 

[HumblePie]

@HumblePie

That requires like work dude.

Haha, finding a job is a job At least finding a good one.