Why millennials can't land jobs

[Xonim]

Still working my way through this thread, but I just wanted to throw this out there. I guess I'm a millennial, though I don't find that I fit many of the stereotypes -- whether accurate or not -- being discussed in the first several pages of this thread.

Until recently, I worked in a "business casual" environment made up primarily of boomers nearing retirement. Even though we had a manual/handbook defining business casual, aside from the "no shorts" rule, the dress code wasn't actually enforced. As a result, pretty much everyone -- myself included -- wore jeans and a t-shirt.

I've made a few jumps over the past 3-4 years and now find myself in meetings several times each week where I'm by far the lowest paid employee in the room. As a result, I've begun to dress the part. I understand that jeans and a t-shirt may be acceptable in the lower echelons, but I'm too young to stay at the level I'm at for the next 25-30 years. Within the next 5 years, 19 of the 22 people I work with on a daily basis will be retired. Additionally, some of the people from those meetings will be retired, and you better believe I'm going to go after those vacant positions. Someone once told me, "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have." Apparently that advice is sticking with me now, as my wardrobe has been evolving over the past few months (have to wait for sales, you know?) to bring me up to the level of everyone else in those meetings.

This next part is going to sound like bragging, and I don't intend it to, that's just how it comes off. Before I even got this position, I had people from within the new department telling me they'd heard about me and how smart I was and asking if I was going to be applying for the position. I received the promotion on my first attempt; meanwhile I personally know people that have already interviewed for the position 6-8 times with no luck.

What's my special skill? I have a tech support background, I'm very resourceful when it comes to finding answers, I'm a decent writer when I need to be, and I'm not afraid to dive head-first into something I know nothing about. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy being considered especially bright, but eventually I feel that's going to catch up to me, and not in a good way. I'm not any more or less intelligent than anyone I work with, I just prefer PDF's and ctrl-F to paper-copy training manuals and sticky tabs.

So now I guess here's where my identity crisis lies: I may be 27 years old, but I tend to associate myself with people more in their mid-late 30s. Unfortunately, I'll be forever branded a millennial.

 

[SP33Demon]

Still working my way through this thread, but I just wanted to throw this out there. I guess I'm a millennial, though I don't find that I fit many of the stereotypes -- whether accurate or not -- being discussed in the first several pages of this thread.

Until recently, I worked in a "business casual" environment made up primarily of boomers nearing retirement. Even though we had a manual/handbook defining business casual, aside from the "no shorts" rule, the dress code wasn't actually enforced. As a result, pretty much everyone -- myself included -- wore jeans and a t-shirt.

I've made a few jumps over the past 3-4 years and now find myself in meetings several times each week where I'm by far the lowest paid employee in the room. As a result, I've begun to dress the part. I understand that jeans and a t-shirt may be acceptable in the lower echelons, but I'm too young to stay at the level I'm at for the next 25-30 years. Within the next 5 years, 19 of the 22 people I work with on a daily basis will be retired. Additionally, some of the people from those meetings will be retired, and you better believe I'm going to go after those vacant positions. Someone once told me, "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have." Apparently that advice is sticking with me now, as my wardrobe has been evolving over the past few months (have to wait for sales, you know?) to bring me up to the level of everyone else in those meetings.

This next part is going to sound like bragging, and I don't intend it to, that's just how it comes off. Before I even got this position, I had people from within the new department telling me they'd heard about me and how smart I was and asking if I was going to be applying for the position. I received the promotion on my first attempt; meanwhile I personally know people that have already interviewed for the position 6-8 times with no luck.

What's my special skill? I have a tech support background, I'm very resourceful when it comes to finding answers, I'm a decent writer when I need to be, and I'm not afraid to dive head-first into something I know nothing about. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy being considered especially bright, but eventually I feel that's going to catch up to me, and not in a good way. I'm not any more or less intelligent than anyone I work with, I just prefer PDF's and ctrl-F to paper-copy training manuals and sticky tabs.

So now I guess here's where my identity crisis lies: I may be 27 years old, but I tend to associate myself with people more in their mid-late 30s. Unfortunately, I'll be forever branded a millennial.

Nobody knows how old you are, it's not a big deal - most of the millenials whose age I know are only because I went the extra mile to find out (due to their shitty attitude). It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and a shame more employees can't have the same mentality.

 

[Anubis]

call me superficial or whatever, but to me someone who doesn't like or want to wear a suit (when appropriate mind you, not like wanting to wear a suit while running to the grocery store) shows a lack of confidence to me.

im confident enough with meself to not care what people think about me or how i dress

 

[Kadarin]

call me superficial or whatever, but to me someone who doesn't like or want to wear a suit (when appropriate mind you, not like wanting to wear a suit while running to the grocery store) shows a lack of confidence to me.

At the age of 45 I have never worn a suit in my adult life, and I don't intend to start now. Of course, I work in tech so I don't have to.

 

[jpiniero]

I am looking for how the candidate approaches the problem. Are they bullshitting and lying to me? Some have done that and flat out made up an answer. That is a big "see you out the door and don't let it smack you on the ass on your way out" reaction from me if a candidate does that. A person that does the instant response of "Don't remember, next question please" gets basically the same response from me as the bullshitter gets from me.

I think most see "working out the problem" as "bullshitting" if it's wrong. The competition out there is so fierce that if you don't know the actual answer, it's likely over anyway. You almost have to think of it as a game where there's no room for error.

 

[Ns1]

I think most see "working out the problem" as "bullshitting" if it's wrong. The competition out there is so fierce that if you don't know the actual answer, it's likely over anyway. You almost have to think of it as a game where there's no room for error.

disagree. thought process is very important.

when I train staff, yes I care about whether or not they get the answer right or wrong, but more importantly I care about the thought process involved in getting to whatever answer they got.

it's only bullshitting if you truly have no idea what the fuck is going on and try to talk your way out of it instead of simply saying "i don't know". It's not bullshitting if you came up with an answer and have a logical reason how you got to that answer.

 

[HumblePie]

disagree. thought process is very important.

when I train staff, yes I care about whether or not they get the answer right or wrong, but more importantly I care about the thought process involved in getting to whatever answer they got.

it's only bullshitting if you truly have no idea what the fuck is going on and try to talk your way out of it instead of simply saying "i don't know". It's not bullshitting if you came up with an answer and have a logical reason how you got to that answer.

The bolded!

There is ALWAYS a question I can ask, or be asked, that pretty much no one will know the answer. Sometimes it can be something stupid like, "how many ball bearings does it take to fill a 787?"

The point of the question is not if the person knows the answer. I doubt anyone coming into an interview will know the answer to that. Or something like, "What was Steve Job's favorite ice cream?" It's not knowledge that people tote around memorized in their head commonly. Sure the answer CAN be found, and that is what I look for what I ask that type of question or I know what is expected when that type of question is asked. It is really not important if they know the answer or have it memorized. It is to get someone a bit out of their comfort zone on easy questions and see how they react to trying to solve a problem to something on the spot.

If I asked someone the ball bearing question and they responded immediately with a number, I would ask why they believe that to be the correct answer. If they said it was an off the top of their head guess with no logic, that wouldn't go nearly as good for that candidate as an answer of "I don't know how many, but if I look up the volume of space available in a 787 and the volume of space the ball bearing to be used takes up, I am sure I could get the answer for you." THAT would be something along the lines of what I am looking for. It is to see a logical thought process that goes on.

Same thing can be said when I ask more difficult programming related questions.

However, I have taken programming "tests" for job as part of the interview process. Those tests are actually more or less designed for those individuals that are completely fresh out of school that recently memorized those answers, or someone that has crammed a few books into their heads recently. It is info that will fade from memory in terms of readily accessed and easily available info. Very few people will be able to retain volumes of book data in their head word for word for long periods of time. So to me tests designed that way are pointless in determining a potential candidate. Rote memorization and knowledge are valued skills to have, but critical thinking, problem solving, and logical analysis skills are far more valuable to a potential candidate.

But even that is only half of the equation. As I said, you can be the best of the best, and if you are also the biggest asshole that no one wants to work with I will never hire you. Aptitude and personality are usually equal parts to determining potential hire-es.

 

[purbeast0]

i have said "i don't know" a ton of times during an interview and feel 100% comfortable doing so. but that is definitely something i have learned over the years and having experience in them. initially i used to be scared to say that, but now i say i don't know and just tell them why i don't know (usually it's just tech i haven't done yet) and will tell them my extent of knowledge in that area and how i would try to solve it.

knowing HOW to problem solve is a much better skill to have than simply memorizing answers and not knowing how or why it works.

 

[sourceninja]

The bolded!

There is ALWAYS a question I can ask, or be asked, that pretty much no one will know the answer. Sometimes it can be something stupid like, "how many ball bearings does it take to fill a 787?"

The point of the question is not if the person knows the answer. I doubt anyone coming into an interview will know the answer to that. Or something like, "What was Steve Job's favorite ice cream?" It's not knowledge that people tote around memorized in their head commonly. Sure the answer CAN be found, and that is what I look for what I ask that type of question or I know what is expected when that type of question is asked. It is really not important if they know the answer or have it memorized. It is to get someone a bit out of their comfort zone on easy questions and see how they react to trying to solve a problem to something on the spot.

If I asked someone the ball bearing question and they responded immediately with a number, I would ask why they believe that to be the correct answer. If they said it was an off the top of their head guess with no logic, that wouldn't go nearly as good for that candidate as an answer of "I don't know how many, but if I look up the volume of space available in a 787 and the volume of space the ball bearing to be used takes up, I am sure I could get the answer for you." THAT would be something along the lines of what I am looking for. It is to see a logical thought process that goes on.

Same thing can be said when I ask more difficult programming related questions.

However, I have taken programming "tests" for job as part of the interview process. Those tests are actually more or less designed for those individuals that are completely fresh out of school that recently memorized those answers, or someone that has crammed a few books into their heads recently. It is info that will fade from memory in terms of readily accessed and easily available info. Very few people will be able to retain volumes of book data in their head word for word for long periods of time. So to me tests designed that way are pointless in determining a potential candidate. Rote memorization and knowledge are valued skills to have, but critical thinking, problem solving, and logical analysis skills are far more valuable to a potential candidate.

But even that is only half of the equation. As I said, you can be the best of the best, and if you are also the biggest asshole that no one wants to work with I will never hire you. Aptitude and personality are usually equal parts to determining potential hire-es.

Besides, the answer is obviously variable number of ball bearings for X size.

http://themikieshow.org/worlds-largest-ball-bearing-finally-complete/06/2012/

 

[slugg]

By age, I'm a millennial. But I really don't like the "millennial" attitude of most people my age. I will admit that I'm more of a jackass than the average professional, but otherwise, I don't fit into the millennial stereotype.

I've interviewed millennials, and by that, I mean people who *do* fit the stereotype, regardless of age. They definitely interview differently and you have to handle it accordingly. I'm not one to fail someone based on a trivial, blanket statement, but my patience runs thin with these people. For example, if someone is under-dressed for an interview, or even late, I'm not going to stop right there, but I won't have much more patience for anything else to go wrong.

Honestly, the biggest problem I see with this group is entitlement. They go to college because they're "supposed to," and then they expect a high paying job because they're "supposed to" due to the piece of paper that says they spent some money on some classes (some people refer to this as a degree). These people typically do the absolute minimum to get through school, just like most everybody else. If I ask what kind of interesting problems they've solved, 99% of the time, they tell me about some assignment they got in school. Great - so your greatest accomplishment is something that someone forced you to do? Where the hell is the passion in your work?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i have said "i don't know" a ton of times during an interview and feel 100% comfortable doing so. but that is definitely something i have learned over the years and having experience in them. initially i used to be scared to say that, but now i say i don't know and just tell them why i don't know (usually it's just tech i haven't done yet) and will tell them my extent of knowledge in that area and how i would try to solve it.

knowing HOW to problem solve is a much better skill to have than simply memorizing answers and not knowing how or why it works.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

"I don't know" is not an acceptable answer. However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I don't know because I haven't had experience in that area, but here is how I would go about solving the problem." You have to show the interviewer how your thought process works and how you'd tackle something you don't have experience with, because every single one of us is asked to work on stuff we've never seen before. When I interview people, the correct answer (if there is one) is often secondary to the thought process used to arrive at an answer.

If, for example, I am interviewing a help desk/desktop support person and I outline a scenario where a user in accounting has trouble printing to the printer, I want to hear the steps you would take to diagnose the issue.

Several years ago, I outlined this exact same scenario to a prospective candidate. Here is how that went:

ICF: "A user in accounting calls and can't print to a network printer. Outline steps you would take to resolve the issue."

CANDIDATE: "I'd call the network administrator."

ICF: "Ok, the network administrator tells you he is busy and you need to resolve the issue."

CANDIDATE: "I'd reboot the printer."

ICF: "The user still can't print. What next?"

CANDIDATE: "I'd call the network administrator."

Needless to say, she didn't get the job and is still, by far, the single worst candidate I ever interviewed. The entire interview went like that on just about every question. This was a case where her resume looked decent for the role and we didn't do phone screens at the time. After her, our department head mandated phone screens in the future.