Why millennials can't land jobs

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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
wow just wow.

I am guessing you make 5 figures. Companies do pay for experience and loyalty these days.

You must have missed that bus. It's not always the short one you should have got on.
And like that , some thread jumper for post counts.

I don't do drugs, I do drink mich ultra though.

You must have the absolutely most boring life.

I am betting you have fucked less than 5 women in your life.

I am betting that is going to really piss you off now.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,814
12,069
136
a friend of mine interviewed at google. they asked him one of those "how would you solve this problem" questions?

his answer: "well, i'd google that"

apparently they did not appreciate that but my friend is a super smart guy, he's doing quite well for himself.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,814
12,069
136
I sat in on an interview a while ago. It wasn't a millennial, but the interviewee still managed to completely eliminate any chance of hire. "So, why did you decide to go into teaching?" "Well, my company laid off a lot of workers at the same time. I hadn't been keeping up to date on the skills in my field, because I had moved on to a higher position where I was more of a liaison between the other workers and the customers. So, when they cut the whole department, I figured I didn't have a chance against all the other people who were laid off. I tried to find positions like my old position, but didn't have any luck. So, I decided to try sales. I got a job at a car dealer. That didn't turn out so well. So, I got another job in sales. That too was all commission, and didn't work out very well or pay the bills. So, as a last resort, I decided to give teaching a shot."

The interviewee was the ONLY person who submitted all the required paperwork on time. We reposted the position and found a much better candidate.

at least he/she was being honest?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
If you're being interviewed for anything, you ought to be prepared to take notes, jot down questions, etc. But if you're interviewing for a developer position, wouldn't you expect to need to jot down some pseudocode for a test problem? It amazes me how many people showed up with nothing to write on or with. No fun stories from this one, though.

I've never had to write any code at an interview. Amusingly enough, I think one of the biggest problems with places where I've worked is the lack of difficult interviews. All they ever do is ask you about your resume.

One time, I had a fellow coworker ask another about a Boolean statement. I went and took a look, and this wonderful conversation took place:

Me: You're using a single equals when you should be using a double.
Them: No, I think that's right.
Other Coworker: I think it'll work.
Them: Yeah.

A month later...

Them: Oh, I fixed a bug in my code! I was using a single equals!

:|
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,176
2,642
126
well, i'm not a millenial, but most of the interviews i've been through were bullshit. (UK)

1) i got asked completely irrelevant questions, and informations, for jobs which require nothing more than the ability to get out of bed in the morning.
the worst is when i get asked thinsg such as "why do you want to work for RandomCompany(r)", when it's a completely dead-end job such as shelf-stacker or wash-up boy. Apparently, "because i want to earn money" is a bad answer.
Note: "because you control the economy" is also a bad answer.
2) most interviewers assume, from both the way one dresses and speaks, that those are one's limits when dealing with customers. even when reading a cv stating experience in roles way above the one i'm applying for; (if i have 1 1/2 years as PA to a major personality in the largest political party, its pretty much safe to assume i know how to behave in a corporate environment)
God forbid i should talk to my co-workers as i would to a human being.
3) the vast majority dont read CVs. at all.
4) funniest of all, i've been through hiring processes for semi-technical roles, where the interviewer had no idea what the role was. they knew *zero* about anything we do in that role, but claimed "i have enough experience as a recruiter to know good people when i see them".

ofc the UK is particularly bad at this, because we simply parrot the interview process that the US has created, without actually understanding it. :/
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
I've never had to write any code at an interview. Amusingly enough, I think one of the biggest problems with places where I've worked is the lack of difficult interviews. All they ever do is ask you about your resume.

One time, I had a fellow coworker ask another about a Boolean statement. I went and took a look, and this wonderful conversation took place:

Me: You're using a single equals when you should be using a double.
Them: No, I think that's right.
Other Coworker: I think it'll work.
Them: Yeah.

A month later...

Them: Oh, I fixed a bug in my code! I was using a single equals!

:|

At least they seemed civil. I've had interviewers argue with me when they were wrong and I was right about a solution. There are obviously two sides of an interview -- the interviewer(s) and interviewee. I won't tolerate rude interviewers any longer especially when they're wrong. Below is a repost of a post I made a few years ago describing the worst interview I ever attended as the interviewee:

"Several years ago, I interviewed for a network engineer position with a very well known manufacturer of computer cables, peripherals, wireless products, etc. The first 3 or 4 rounds were a breeze. They finally flew in the IT manager and director from their HQ for the final interviews. They were condescending and rude and asked stupid questions and the director, who was very impressed with himself, always had to tell me what the "correct" answer was even though his questions made no sense and by his own definition, weren't solved by his answer. The IT manager mentioned some of the Active Directory issues they were having and I told him how to fix it and he argued with me over the solution! Keep in mind I designed an AD infrastructure for a Fortune 500 company with 40+ global sites, so I knew what I was talking about and had seen my solution work.

So, I was fed up -- I knew I wasn't going to get the job, so I decided to have fun with it. At the end, when they asked me for questions, I nailed them to the wall and completely embarrassed and humiliated them. One thing they were bragging about earlier in the interview was their customer satisfaction scores for their help desk -- it was 80%. So when it got to my turn to ask questions, I actually said this:

"You mentioned that your help desk customer satisfaction score was 80%. Quite frankly, that is a terrible score and wouldn't be tolerated anywhere I've worked in the past. People would be fired or reassigned. How do you plan to remedy the situation?"

Their jaws hit the floor -- it was GREAT! I just kept nailing them with stuff like that. I figured if they didn't have respect for me, I didn't need to have it for them. At the end, I recommended to the manager that they hire a consulting firm to help with their AD issue since they couldn't solve it on their own.

The funny part is that these guys were hiring these positions because the previous people they hired were an absolute disaster. So yeah, these guys REALLY had the right to act like they knew how to pick employees. "

I had a job at the time and didn't need another, so I had nothing to lose and these guys were such major assholes that I had no problem doing this to them. One guy argued with me over branding of one of their products and was rude about it -- I was just mentioning something that the HR person and I had discussed and he told me I was wrong. I said "Oh, well I'm sorry, that's just what the HR person told me. Maybe I misunderstood." When he was persistently rude after that, I decided the branding argument wasn't an isolated incident and I wasn't going to take their shit.

One of his actual questions was: "If you interviewed twins and they had EXACTLY the same qualifications (even exactly the same personality), which ONE (my emphasis) would you hire?"

I told him that would never happen and I would hire the one that meshed the best with my team in the interviews. "Well, it HAS happened to us before! Which ONE (again, my emphasis) would you hire?"

He finally said "The correct answer is to hire both!" Uh, no dipshit, you said I could only hire ONE. This ignores the fact, of course, that I wasn't even interviewing for a management position. To this day, I refuse to buy their products and this interview was 10 years ago. "

The point is, people should be respectful in an interview and ask questions RELEVANT for the position. If you're rude to me in an interview, you're going to get called on it. I have the skills and experience to back it up and can find another job easily.

I personally have no issue with BikeJunkie's posts in this thread and agree with him. If you come to an interview in jeans and a polo shirt, you'd better nail every question perfectly or otherwise impress the hell out of me for me to hire you. Likewise, ALWAYS take a notepad and pen to jot notes on. When I am on an interview, I'll take notes when speaking with the interviewer and use those notes for questions at the end. Finally, ALWAYS ask questions at the end. Research the company and if nothing else, ask them about their main competitors and ask the interviewer his/her opinion of the biggest challenges facing the company over the next 2 to 5 years.

One more pro-tip -- always do phone screens, as they will save you a huge amount of time weeding out candidates.
 
Last edited:

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
156
106
I remember that post, ICF. Great story. The "hire both" part is just too bizarre. I can relate a bit as I have been part of interviewing teams where one of the people on the team was more interested in "showing off" than achieving the actual goal of the interview. There were a couple times I wanted to take a break just so someone would take Mr. Ego out in the hall and tell him to just shut up and listen, but I wasn't running the team.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Let's talk about sacrificing. People always talk about how they want to be successful. How are you going to do that when you spend your leisure time playing video games. .

im curious what would you suggest people do with their "leisure" time besides something they find leisurely
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
I see it from both ends. I'm a millennial and I hire a lot of people. In some cases you have individuals whose parents were too too involved in their child's social development, and in a lot of cases you have individuals whose parents just weren't involved at all. Only a handful of children will learn the ropes on their own. For the vast majority of people, they need to be shown what proper behavior/habits are, and learn on their own what the true rewards of conducting themselves in such manner earn you. The bold the important part, because as a leader it's your job to navigate them to that point during our feedback.

I've also witnessed quite a few talented and capable individuals wither away because of poor management. Yes, it goes both ways. As leaders, being passive-aggressive gets you nowhere. Asking questions like, "Why can't you just be here on time?" or "Why can't you just learn the product on your own like Danny does?" only demoralize individuals.

4. Cannot accept criticism - Every young lawyer I have critiqued recently seems to think that the reason their work product sucks is because I or someone else in the firm hasn't spent enough time training them. Newsflash, you all were hired because you were a 3-4th year associate! You should know how to do most of the stuff we ask you to do already!

5. Have absolutely no clue - ME: this patent application is crap because ABC . . . Recently fired lawyer - "At my old firm I was told to do that because . . . . " Me: You were told wrong. I don't know who trained you, but here are five reasons why you don't do that. Recently fired lawyer - "But at my old firm . . ." Me - I don't care what you did at your old firm because what you did at your old firm is wrong, for the reasons I just explained to you. Recently fired lawyer - "But. . . " Me - No buts! And don't bring up your old firm again. You haven't demonstrated to anyone here that you know what you are doing. In fact all you have done is demonstrate to every senior attorney in the firm that you do not know what you are doing. So if I were you I would try to forget what your old firm trained you to do, because frankly they shafted you. They filled you with a false sense of knowledge and accomplishment, while teaching you precisely the wrong way to approach XYZ type of projects.

Argh . . . pisses me off just thinking about it.

There's no doubt you know your trade. I've read your other posts and know for a fact that you're a successful, respectable legal writer. Not arguing that! But have we considered that maybe it's because this feedback is condescending, passive-aggressive, and laced with frustration? 3rd or 4th year associate or not, people don't respond well to that type criticism. It just pushes them away.
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
Casual Clothes:
I've been interviewed by managers wearing jeans and polo shirts. First class hotels are Not casual environments.

Late without explanation or apology:
I've lost count of the number of interviewing managers who do this when they set the interview time.

No printed copies of resume :
I've had interviewers ask me for a copy (which I always give them) when I can see a copy in their folder in front of them. They then begin to peruse it, obviously never having looked at the folder in front of them. A few have the grace to acknowledge they already have a copy when they open the folder to put the copy I just gave them away at the end of the interview.

No pen :
I've never been interviewed by a manager without a pen but, I have been interviewed by managers who couldn't answer my questions about specifics of the job being applied for.

Of course, I'm not a millennial.

Sounds like you got interviewed by a millennial I kid...

Make no mistake, companies can be absolute ASSHOLES regarding how they treat their candidates. Not showing the same courtesies you expect from your candidates is very telling about the kind of culture the company has.

As for the resume thing, I always have a copy already. I ask for a copy from the candidate for two reasons:

1) Most HR systems butcher the formatting, so by the time I get your resume, it's probably one continuous line of text.

2) By the time I get your resume, it's also probably several months old. I ask you for a copy to give you an opportunity to give me the most up-to-date version. And to see if you're prepared
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
I'm a middle manager and consider myself an interview veteran. I would very much expect that if I was too unprepared to print out the resume for the person entering my office, or at the very least have it readily accessible from my computer, that they might find it offensive. It would suggest a whole slew of things that I, were I being interviewed, would make me question if I wanted to work at said organization.

I'd suggest trying to put things into perspective. You may very well be (see: most likely scenario) the asshole in this situation. It's even more disheartening that you're also apparently too pretentious to realize it.

No worries. You actually sound like the kind of person most of the rest of us are trying to avoid hiring, so it will all work out. I mean, if you think someone is an asshole because they'd like to see a modicum of preparation from you, who knows what kind of tool you'll be when you're actually asked to work
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
4,016
0
0
As leaders, being passive-aggressive gets you nowhere. Asking questions like, "Why can't you just be here on time?" or "Why can't you just learn the product on your own like Danny does?" only demoralize individuals.

so it could hurt someone's feeling to ask why they can't figure out how to show up on time? Are you saying that manager should take the opportunity to build that worker up with positive feedback about his attendance issues?
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
so it could hurt someone's feeling to ask why they can't figure out how to show up on time? Are you saying that manager should take the opportunity to build that worker up with positive feedback about his attendance issues?

"Why are you late?" is different from "Why can't you just be here on time?".
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
4,016
0
0
"Why are you late?" is different from "Why can't you just be here on time?".

one would indicate a one-time occurrence and one a pattern of tardiness. I see no issue with either being asked if the employee has shown they just don't care. No need to coddle
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
one would indicate a one-time occurrence and one a pattern of tardiness. I see no issue with either being asked if the employee has shown they just don't care. No need to coddle

And so the circle of bad management continues.
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
4,016
0
0
And so the circle of bad management continues.

it's not a freaking daycare. If someone shows they don't care about the rules around their employment why worry about hurting their feelings? When I'm going to be late I let my coworkers and manager know. An ongoing issue with a start time should have been discussed before the manager was forced to bring it up.
 

Virge_

Senior member
Aug 6, 2013
621
0
0
No worries. You actually sound like the kind of person most of the rest of us are trying to avoid hiring, so it will all work out. I mean, if you think someone is an asshole because they'd like to see a modicum of preparation from you, who knows what kind of tool you'll be when you're actually asked to work

Yes. You are so right. That's probably why I've only ever been unemployed for a few days in my entire life, and it was only because I was weighing which of the three offers I had on the table to take while negotiating with all 3.

1) I wear a suit to an interview. I think the types of environments that executives wear casual clothes are, by and large, either organizations trying to be too hip (you know, the ones with "open" floor plans with tables and no assigned seats, high ceiling, etc), or a small-medium mom and pop shop. My skills are typically wasted at either of these organizations.

2) I always have a pad and pen. I let my interviewer and/or interviewee speak their piece, and I write notes on questions for later rather than being rude and interrupting. 100% of my own interviews have always had a point when I was asked if I had any questions, and I feel it's good etiquette to show you paid attention and ask things relevant to you.

3) If I was going for a position and the interviewer entered (and/or I entered his room) and he didn't have a copy of my resume, I would offer to e-mail it to him/her right there and if that was insufficient I would excuse myself and leave.

I don't need to speak my credentials to you, because frankly you'd probably be too ignorant to understand most of them - the reality is you're likely levels lower than I on the typical organization hierarchy which your attitude and opinion reflect. I don't really judge you for it, someday you'll understand. Well, maybe (see: probably not with that attitude).
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
And so the circle of bad management continues.

It's not the manager's job to groom a perpetually late/irresponsible employee into a basic semblance of a professional.

Innately shitty employees are not to be fixed, they are to be replaced or, better yet, avoided altogether.

Life: It's a hardhat area. Come prepared.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
it's not a freaking daycare. If someone shows they don't care about the rules around their employment why worry about hurting their feelings? When I'm going to be late I let my coworkers and manager know. An ongoing issue with a start time should have been discussed before the manager was forced to bring it up.

It's not a freaking sweatshop either and Ventanni has already touched on why that approach is bad.

For many jobs the fact that someone is late simply isn't a big deal anyway if they can just make up for the lost time during the lunchbreak or at the end of the day.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
It's not the manager's job to groom a perpetually late/irresponsible employee into a basic semblance of a professional.

Innately shitty employees are not to be fixed, they are to be replaced or, better yet, avoided altogether.

Life: It's a hardhat area. Come prepared.

A manager's job is to manage and part of that is knowing how best to deal with people.

A manager needs to be prepared just like everyone else does.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
Yes. You are so right. That's probably why I've only ever been unemployed for a few days in my entire life, and it was only because I was weighing which of the three offers I had on the table to take while negotiating with all 3.

1) I wear a suit to an interview. I think the types of environments that executives wear casual clothes are, by and large, either organizations trying to be too hip (you know, the ones with "open" floor plans with tables and no assigned seats, high ceiling, etc), or a small-medium mom and pop shop. My skills are typically wasted at either of these organizations.

2) I always have a pad and pen. I let my interviewer and/or interviewee speak their piece, and I write notes on questions for later rather than being rude and interrupting. 100% of my own interviews have always had a point when I was asked if I had any questions, and I feel it's good etiquette to show you paid attention and ask things relevant to you.

3) If I was going for a position and the interviewer entered (and/or I entered his room) and he didn't have a copy of my resume, I would offer to e-mail it to him/her right there and if that was insufficient I would excuse myself and leave.

I don't need to speak my credentials to you, because frankly you'd probably be too ignorant to understand most of them - the reality is you're likely levels lower than I on the typical organization hierarchy which your attitude and opinion reflect. I don't really judge you for it, someday you'll understand. Well, maybe (see: probably not with that attitude).

Alkemyst, is that you?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Yes. You are so right. That's probably why I've only ever been unemployed for a few days in my entire life, and it was only because I was weighing which of the three offers I had on the table to take while negotiating with all 3.

1) I wear a suit to an interview. I think the types of environments that executives wear casual clothes are, by and large, either organizations trying to be too hip (you know, the ones with "open" floor plans with tables and no assigned seats, high ceiling, etc), or a small-medium mom and pop shop. My skills are typically wasted at either of these organizations.

2) I always have a pad and pen. I let my interviewer and/or interviewee speak their piece, and I write notes on questions for later rather than being rude and interrupting. 100% of my own interviews have always had a point when I was asked if I had any questions, and I feel it's good etiquette to show you paid attention and ask things relevant to you.

3) If I was going for a position and the interviewer entered (and/or I entered his room) and he didn't have a copy of my resume, I would offer to e-mail it to him/her right there and if that was insufficient I would excuse myself and leave.

I don't need to speak my credentials to you, because frankly you'd probably be too ignorant to understand most of them - the reality is you're likely levels lower than I on the typical organization hierarchy which your attitude and opinion reflect. I don't really judge you for it, someday you'll understand. Well, maybe (see: probably not with that attitude).

:biggrin:
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
Yes. You are so right. That's probably why I've only ever been unemployed for a few days in my entire life, and it was only because I was weighing which of the three offers I had on the table to take while negotiating with all 3.

1) I wear a suit to an interview. I think the types of environments that executives wear casual clothes are, by and large, either organizations trying to be too hip (you know, the ones with "open" floor plans with tables and no assigned seats, high ceiling, etc), or a small-medium mom and pop shop. My skills are typically wasted at either of these organizations.

2) I always have a pad and pen. I let my interviewer and/or interviewee speak their piece, and I write notes on questions for later rather than being rude and interrupting.

3) If I was going for a position and the interviewer entered (and/or I entered his room) and he didn't have a copy of my resume, I would offer to e-mail it to him/her right there and if that was insufficient I would excuse myself and leave.

I don't need to speak my credentials to you, because frankly you'd probably be too ignorant to understand most of them - the reality is you're likely levels lower than I on the typical organization hierarchy which your attitude and opinion reflect. I don't really judge you for it, someday you'll understand. Well, maybe (see: probably not with that attitude).

Yet you did anyway! You're clearly angry about something, as if this thread really struck a nerve or something. You've been on the attack from the start.

I am sure your company is blessed to have your righteousness saturate their walls. Good for you :thumbsup: What I outlined in the OP is Interviewing 101. If you don't get it, oh well. I've been on both sides of the table for nearly two decades. Companies have paid me just for my interviewing services. On the flip side, I've only interviewed for one job that didn't pan out into a job offer, and that was only because a recruiter sent me to the wrong interview about 15 years ago. So we can both beat our chests over how awesome we are. Yay for us.

Oh, I think you meant "peace" and not "piece." I'm not usually a grammar Nazi, but if you're going to allege someone is ignorant, you might want to sanitize your attack first
 

BikeJunkie

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2013
1,390
0
0
A manager's job is to manage and part of that is knowing how best to deal with people.

Oh I 100% agree. And the best way to deal with someone who's so rude/unprofessional as to show up late to work everyday and is too delicate to handle the criticism for it is to FIRE THEM.
 
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