Why Mormons are not Christian:

[biostud]

heh, I read it as morons

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: StormRider
Hmmm, I just read more of your article and a lot of the Mormon doctrine does seem weird.

Well I won't pass judgment and call it "weird", but I will agree with you that it is a bit odd and something I have not read before. I understand Mormons (LDS) are very secretive about practices and beliefs and that the Book of Mormon does not actually contain many of their beliefs - apparently a book called Doctines and something-or-another does.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ
You can argue that many different sects are not truly "Christian." Including Catholicism.

On the contrary, Catholicism is Christian according to the basic tenets of the faith. As long as one who calls himself Christian believes in One God embodied in the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and his Sonship, Jesus as Savior and Lord, virgin birth, the Resurrection, Baptism, and salvation by grace through faith, I will consider him a Christian brother.

So what are mormons? Your Christian cousins?

They are a Cult of Christianity and therefore not related to me. They are not Christian, as you would find if you read the article.

Quite a few believe Catholics are a Cult of Christianity too. I'd try to defend claims against the people you believe are within your own religion before attacking others.

Like I said, I represent a moderate orthodox Christianity that is Christ-centered and Biblically-based. Therefore I believe Catholics to be Christian, though I may disagree with a few of their finer points of doctrine or practice. The core beliefs that matter are the same however, and so they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. It would mainly be extreme arch-conservatives who are actually quite far from Christ who would proclaim that Catholics are nothing more than idolators.

:thumbsup: That's a post I can appreciate.

 

[AdamMT1618]

Mormons do not beleive in the Trinity, Christians do. I think that is a summerization that Mormons are not Christians.

 

[StormRider]

But that hot red headed girl in Stargate Atlantis is a Mormon. I cannot say anything bad about a religion with girls that are as hot as that one!

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ
You can argue that many different sects are not truly "Christian." Including Catholicism.

On the contrary, Catholicism is Christian according to the basic tenets of the faith. As long as one who calls himself Christian believes in One God embodied in the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and his Sonship, Jesus as Savior and Lord, virgin birth, the Resurrection, Baptism, and salvation by grace through faith, I will consider him a Christian brother.

I'm not going to get into it, because I'm not a true believer in the theory that Catholicism isn't really a true form of Christianity (nor am I the most knowledgable), but before simply dismissing it, you should do some research into it. It addresses some of the very statements you just made.

Interesting, but yet 40,000 Christian denominations with different doctrine and beleifs on salvation, Christ is being devided, but yet, there is only One, Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded not only in Scripture, but also by Oral Tradition passed down by the Apostles. Remember, at one time the New Testament did not exist, but the Church did and it was the Church that compiled the Cannons and Protestants that took away from it.

So because the Catholic church compiled what was written of Christ into the New Testament, and think they are the one true church, that makes them automatically correct? And the Protestants "stole" from the Catholics?

Considering we as Protestants simply changed to the vernacular I wouldn't stress out about it. The Catholic church is actually quite accepting of Protestant denominations who are in line with the Nicene creed and have the same core beliefs.

 

[gopunk]

1) I am posting this SOLELY to emphasize that Mormons (LDS) do not believe in the same God or Jesus Christ that I as an orthodox Christian believe.

are you aware that the thread title has nothing to do with this? your thread title should be "Why Mormons are not Orthodox Christians".

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ
You can argue that many different sects are not truly "Christian." Including Catholicism.

On the contrary, Catholicism is Christian according to the basic tenets of the faith. As long as one who calls himself Christian believes in One God embodied in the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and his Sonship, Jesus as Savior and Lord, virgin birth, the Resurrection, Baptism, and salvation by grace through faith, I will consider him a Christian brother.

So what are mormons? Your Christian cousins?

They are a Cult of Christianity and therefore not related to me. They are not Christian, as you would find if you read the article.

Quite a few believe Catholics are a Cult of Christianity too. I'd try to defend claims against the people you believe are within your own religion before attacking others.

Like I said, I represent a moderate orthodox Christianity that is Christ-centered and Biblically-based. Therefore I believe Catholics to be Christian, though I may disagree with a few of their finer points of doctrine or practice. The core beliefs that matter are the same however, and so they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. It would mainly be extreme arch-conservatives who are actually quite far from Christ who would proclaim that Catholics are nothing more than idolators.

:thumbsup: That's a post I can appreciate.

Thank you BigJ, you've made some informative and civil posts :thumbsup:

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
Hmmm, I just read more of your article and a lot of the Mormon doctrine does seem weird.

Well I won't pass judgment and call it "weird", but I will agree with you that it is a bit odd and something I have not read before. I understand Mormons (LDS) are very secretive about practices and beliefs and that the Book of Mormon does not actually contain many of their beliefs - apparently a book called Doctines and something-or-another does.

Yeah, I shouldn't have used the word "weird".

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
I think the world would be a more harmonious place if the different branches of Christianity would accept all the branches as Christians. What's wrong with just saying "they are a different branch of Christianity than I am" -- instead of saying "They are not real Christians?"

For me, a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Son of God and as far as I understand it, that's what Mormons are.

Same with Islam. It's weird how Sunnis don't consider Shiites to be Muslims.

If you would read parts of the post... ah, I'll just copy and paste again

The Mormon Jesus Christ
A created being: the elder brother of Lucifer
Common (one of many gods) and, in some ways, of minor important in the largerMormon cosmology
Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth
Once sinful and imperfect
Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)
A married polygamist?

The Biblical Jesus Christ
Uncreated God
Unique (the Second Person of the one and only Godhead) and of supreme importance through time, eternity and all creation
Conceived by the Holy Spirit, who supermaturally "overshadowed" Mary, thus a true virgin birth
Eternally sinless and perfect
As God, never required salvation
An unmarried monogamist

As you can see, the "Jesus" the Mormons believe in is completely different from the one that I and other orthodox Christians believe in. It would certainly be harmonious for us to be religiously tolerant, but we cannot accept certain sects as Christian because their beliefs and doctrines are radically different and nowhere near the same.

i guess the question that comes to my mind is, why should your definition of christianity be the authority?

Because it's the Bible-based one

The Bible is the final authority for me in all points of doctrine and practice, and I believe it to be the inspired Word of God.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: gopunk

1) I am posting this SOLELY to emphasize that Mormons (LDS) do not believe in the same God or Jesus Christ that I as an orthodox Christian believe.

are you aware that the thread title has nothing to do with this?

On the contrary, it has EVERYTHING to do with it; if you read the article you would see that Mormons are not "Christian" according to what Christianity is historically. The post about the difference between the Mormon Jesus and the Jesus I believe in demonstrate that we believe in a different God (actually, the Mormons believe in many, of whom Jesus is apparently not that important to them).

 

[Ronstang]

Who fircken cares? You must be pretty insecure in your beliefs to come here looking for validation. Get a clue and go back to church and discuss this stuff with people who care.

 

[Lyfer]

POLITICS AND NEWS PLZ.

 

[RedPickle]

Too many words makes my head spin.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: StormRider
But that hot red headed girl in Stargate Atlantis is a Mormon. I cannot say anything bad about a religion with girls that are as hot as that one!

Perhaps you should take the advice in your sig: Never trust an attractive woman -- especially if she shows some interest towards you.

You should perhaps think of her as a person first and realize that she has made her own decision in terms of religious beliefs (hopefully, though some parents force it on their children). So think of her as the hot red-headed girl, not the Mormon girl

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
I think the world would be a more harmonious place if the different branches of Christianity would accept all the branches as Christians. What's wrong with just saying "they are a different branch of Christianity than I am" -- instead of saying "They are not real Christians?"

For me, a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Son of God and as far as I understand it, that's what Mormons are.

Same with Islam. It's weird how Sunnis don't consider Shiites to be Muslims.

If you would read parts of the post... ah, I'll just copy and paste again

The Mormon Jesus Christ
A created being: the elder brother of Lucifer
Common (one of many gods) and, in some ways, of minor important in the largerMormon cosmology
Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth
Once sinful and imperfect
Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)
A married polygamist?

The Biblical Jesus Christ
Uncreated God
Unique (the Second Person of the one and only Godhead) and of supreme importance through time, eternity and all creation
Conceived by the Holy Spirit, who supermaturally "overshadowed" Mary, thus a true virgin birth
Eternally sinless and perfect
As God, never required salvation
An unmarried monogamist

As you can see, the "Jesus" the Mormons believe in is completely different from the one that I and other orthodox Christians believe in. It would certainly be harmonious for us to be religiously tolerant, but we cannot accept certain sects as Christian because their beliefs and doctrines are radically different and nowhere near the same.

i guess the question that comes to my mind is, why should your definition of christianity be the authority?

Because it's the Bible-based one

The Bible is the final authority for me in all points of doctrine and practice, and I believe it to be the inspired Word of God.

I have a problem with that though. The Bible was created by the Catholic church, yes? And they left out quite a few books from it, correct? So under what authortity does the Catholic Church have to leave those books out of the Bible? If you were creating a religious text, wouldn't you want solely to have books that support your stance?

This is why I can't believe that it is the "final authority."

 

[dugweb]

Where do you, or your church, get the authority to be the determining factor on whether or not someone is christian?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
I think the world would be a more harmonious place if the different branches of Christianity would accept all the branches as Christians. What's wrong with just saying "they are a different branch of Christianity than I am" -- instead of saying "They are not real Christians?"

For me, a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Son of God and as far as I understand it, that's what Mormons are.

Same with Islam. It's weird how Sunnis don't consider Shiites to be Muslims.

If you would read parts of the post... ah, I'll just copy and paste again

The Mormon Jesus Christ
A created being: the elder brother of Lucifer
Common (one of many gods) and, in some ways, of minor important in the largerMormon cosmology
Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth
Once sinful and imperfect
Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)
A married polygamist?

The Biblical Jesus Christ
Uncreated God
Unique (the Second Person of the one and only Godhead) and of supreme importance through time, eternity and all creation
Conceived by the Holy Spirit, who supermaturally "overshadowed" Mary, thus a true virgin birth
Eternally sinless and perfect
As God, never required salvation
An unmarried monogamist

As you can see, the "Jesus" the Mormons believe in is completely different from the one that I and other orthodox Christians believe in. It would certainly be harmonious for us to be religiously tolerant, but we cannot accept certain sects as Christian because their beliefs and doctrines are radically different and nowhere near the same.

i guess the question that comes to my mind is, why should your definition of christianity be the authority?

Because it's the Bible-based one

The Bible is the final authority for me in all points of doctrine and practice, and I believe it to be the inspired Word of God.

i edited my post to reflect my thoughts better, but i'll respond anyways (please read the edit though):

i can respect that, but the mormons believe they have additional words from god, just like the new testament was added to the old testament. i don't see why believing in 2 books is any more christian than believing in 3. also, if you look in the dictionary, "christian" is not defined by what books you hold to be authority, but rather whether or not you accept jesus christ as the son of god.

 

[AdamMT1618]

The Church does have authority as stated in Mathew 16:18:

Mathew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

 

[Kanalua]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Who fircken cares? You must be pretty insecure in your beliefs to come here looking for validation. Get a clue and go back to church and discuss this stuff with people who care.

no kidding...

anyway, didn't you watch South Park...the Correct answer in...Mormon...

Mormon (LDS) myself...great religion, you should try it sometime...

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: gopunk

1) I am posting this SOLELY to emphasize that Mormons (LDS) do not believe in the same God or Jesus Christ that I as an orthodox Christian believe.

are you aware that the thread title has nothing to do with this?

On the contrary, it has EVERYTHING to do with it; if you read the article you would see that Mormons are not "Christian" according to what Christianity is historically. The post about the difference between the Mormon Jesus and the Jesus I believe in demonstrate that we believe in a different God (actually, the Mormons believe in many, of whom Jesus is apparently not that important to them).

sorry, i made several edits.

as i said in my final edit, all you have shown (and indeed, all you admit to have shown) is that Mormons are not orthodox Christians.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
The Church does have authority as stated in Mathew 16:18:

Mathew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

do we have evidence that the catholic church was the one referred to in that passage? also, if the catholic church is the one to have constructed the bible as we know it today... doesn't this seem a little convenient?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
The Church does have authority as stated in Mathew 16:18:

Mathew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

That is by far, one of the most disputed passages in the Bible concerning this particular subject.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
I think the world would be a more harmonious place if the different branches of Christianity would accept all the branches as Christians. What's wrong with just saying "they are a different branch of Christianity than I am" -- instead of saying "They are not real Christians?"

For me, a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Son of God and as far as I understand it, that's what Mormons are.

Same with Islam. It's weird how Sunnis don't consider Shiites to be Muslims.

If you would read parts of the post... ah, I'll just copy and paste again

The Mormon Jesus Christ
A created being: the elder brother of Lucifer
Common (one of many gods) and, in some ways, of minor important in the largerMormon cosmology
Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth
Once sinful and imperfect
Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)
A married polygamist?

The Biblical Jesus Christ
Uncreated God
Unique (the Second Person of the one and only Godhead) and of supreme importance through time, eternity and all creation
Conceived by the Holy Spirit, who supermaturally "overshadowed" Mary, thus a true virgin birth
Eternally sinless and perfect
As God, never required salvation
An unmarried monogamist

As you can see, the "Jesus" the Mormons believe in is completely different from the one that I and other orthodox Christians believe in. It would certainly be harmonious for us to be religiously tolerant, but we cannot accept certain sects as Christian because their beliefs and doctrines are radically different and nowhere near the same.

i guess the question that comes to my mind is, why should your definition of christianity be the authority?

Because it's the Bible-based one

The Bible is the final authority for me in all points of doctrine and practice, and I believe it to be the inspired Word of God.

I have a problem with that though. The Bible was created by the Catholic church, yes? And they left out quite a few books from it, correct? So under what authortity does the Catholic Church have to leave those books out of the Bible? If you were creating a religious text, wouldn't you want solely to have books that support your stance?

It's too long to post here, but I will link the Catholic explanation of the canonization of the NT: Catholic explanation

What's interesting is that Christians who adhere to the tenets of the Faith (Bible-based) all use the same books and do not add to nor detract from the Scriptures. Even as Protestants and Catholics we have come to agree why certain books define who we are and why we should live as we do. I believe the body of works not included in the Bible is called the "Apocrypha" and contains many similar narratives that are made redundant by the Gospels selected - remember that though we believe the Gospels to be divinely-inspired and written, they nonetheless incorporate some eyewitness testimony and therefore vary in small details and emphasis.

 

[Kanalua]

oh yeah, Am I a Christian, of course! it IS the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints...no creed or anyone else can tell me any different...so...deal with it...