Why Mormons are not Christian:

[cquark]

Originally posted by: ariafrost
What's interesting is that Christians who adhere to the tenets of the Faith (Bible-based) all use the same books and do not add to nor detract from the Scriptures. Even as Protestants and Catholics we have come to agree why certain books define who we are and why we should live as we do. I believe the body of works not included in the Bible is called the "Apocrypha" and contains many similar narratives that are made redundant by the Gospels selected - remember that though we believe the Gospels to be divinely-inspired and written, they nonetheless incorporate some eyewitness testimony and therefore vary in small details and emphasis.

The Catholic Apocrypha are only a tiny part of early Christian scripture that was excluded from the Protestant Bible. Each major branch of Christianity--Catholic, Coptic, Ethiopian, Gnostic, Nestorian, Orthodox, and Protestant--has its own set of books, with substantial differences existing between churches, especially between the churches who arose from early Roman Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) and those who were free of Roman influence.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: randalee
So, Original Poster, did you wake up this morning and, having nothing else to do, come up with, "What kind of trolling can I start this morning on Off-Topic?"

I'm a Mormon. I am a Christian. I can only be saved by Jesus Christ. I don't believe I can "work my way into heaven". Sorry, pal, it doesn't work that way. I do believe in being honest, and doing good works. Is there something wrong with being a good person? That's all the LDS church is about. Being the best person you can be, and finding true happiness in that.

Ok, let's move on now.

Randy Clements
Salt Lake City, UT (Yes, where the Mormon Pioneers settled long ago...)

So were there no Christians until 1829?

His post had nothing in it that said Mormons were the only or first Christians.

But Christians beleive in the Trinity and Mormons do not, so to a Mormon, there can not be another type of Christian.

Where do you people get this sh!t?

Christ the Son, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God" -Alma 11:44

a slightly different interpretation of the heads (mainly the godhead) but still the trinity....

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: waggy
Yeah another mormon bashing thread!

Hey, and fvck Utah too!

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

The Trinity is a held beleif by Catholics and Protestants, so what are you talking about?

If you want to invalidate his claim that he is not a Christian for certain beliefs you think he has, I'd suggest you defend yourself as a Catholic against the very same things.

Do you know anything about the case brought against Catholicism for having Saints, a Pope, or any number of other things that would classify the Catholic religion as not a form of Christianity?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: BigJ
You can argue that many different sects are not truly "Christian." Including Catholicism.

On the contrary, Catholicism is Christian according to the basic tenets of the faith. As long as one who calls himself Christian believes in One God embodied in the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and his Sonship, Jesus as Savior and Lord, virgin birth, the Resurrection, Baptism, and salvation by grace through faith, I will consider him a Christian brother.

I'm not going to get into it, because I'm not a true believer in the theory that Catholicism isn't really a true form of Christianity (nor am I the most knowledgable), but before simply dismissing it, you should do some research into it. It addresses some of the very statements you just made.

Interesting, but yet 40,000 Christian denominations with different doctrine and beleifs on salvation, Christ is being devided, but yet, there is only One, Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded not only in Scripture, but also by Oral Tradition passed down by the Apostles. Remember, at one time the New Testament did not exist, but the Church did and it was the Church that compiled the Cannons and Protestants that took away from it.

...cue Holy Roman Empire, the destruction of mystic traditions all around, then missionaries, with as much destruction, then the taking over of extra continents...then, while all this goes on, other sects change what they don't like, but they seem to like the whole intolerance while preaching good will bit.

 

[Chebago]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: StormRider
I think the world would be a more harmonious place if the different branches of Christianity would accept all the branches as Christians. What's wrong with just saying "they are a different branch of Christianity than I am" -- instead of saying "They are not real Christians?"

For me, a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Son of God and as far as I understand it, that's what Mormons are.

Same with Islam. It's weird how Sunnis don't consider Shiites to be Muslims.

If you would read parts of the post... ah, I'll just copy and paste again

The Mormon Jesus Christ
A created being: the elder brother of Lucifer
Common (one of many gods) and, in some ways, of minor important in the largerMormon cosmology
Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth wrong
Once sinful and imperfect wrong
Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)
A married polygamist? wrong

As you can see, the "Jesus" the Mormons believe in is completely different from the one that I and other orthodox Christians believe in. It would certainly be harmonious for us to be religiously tolerant, but we cannot accept certain sects as Christian because their beliefs and doctrines are radically different and nowhere near the same.

As a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder-day Saints (mormons), I think I can help you understand our doctrine a little more, after reading the article that you posted I'm kinda sad that you have based your entire belief about the lds church based on an article written by someone who clearly has negative feelings toward the lds church, without doing any actual research into what the real doctrine of the LDS church is, I hope I can clarify some points for you...

the book of mormon states in 2 Nephi 25:26 that, "...we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

I think that states rather plainly what our belief regarding Jesus Christ is, He is the center of our religion. Our belief can further be empahasized in this excerpt from the Guide to the Scriptures:


"Christ (a Greek word) and Messiah (a Hebrew word) mean ?the anointed.? Jesus Christ is the Firstborn of the Father in the spirit (Heb. 1: 6; D&C 93: 21). He is the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh (John 1: 14; 3: 16). He is Jehovah (D&C 110: 3-4) and was foreordained to his great calling before the creation of the world. Under the direction of the Father, Jesus created the earth and everything on it (John 1: 3, 14; Moses 1: 31-33). He was born to Mary at Bethlehem, lived a sinless life, and made a perfect atonement for the sins of all mankind by shedding of his blood and giving his life on the cross (Matt. 2: 1; 1 Ne. 11: 13-33; 3 Ne. 27: 13-16; D&C 76: 40-42). He rose from the dead, thus assuring the eventual resurrection of all mankind. Through Jesus? atonement and resurrection, those who repent of their sins and obey God?s commandments can live eternally with Jesus and the Father (2 Ne. 9: 10-12; 21-22; D&C 76: 50-53, 62).

Jesus Christ is the greatest being to be born on this earth. His life is the perfect example of how all mankind should live. All prayers, blessings, and priesthood ordinances should be done in his name. He is the Lord of lords, King of kings, the Creator, the Savior, and the God of the whole earth.

Jesus Christ will come again in power and glory to reign on the earth during the Millennium. At the last day, he will judge all mankind (Alma 11: 40-41; JS-M 1)."


So as you can see, your thought about the LDS church preaching that Jesus was once a sinner and is a non-important/less-important GOD is not accurate, I believe that Jesus is my savior and live a perfect life as a guide for me to follow, I believe he is the founder of our church, that is why the church is actually called the Church of Jesus Christ, because he is the founder, the mormon church is only a nickname...

I believe in the same biblical account of the birth of Jesus Christ as you do, Namely Matthew 1:18 that states "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

As you can see, we agree on a virgin birth...

There is nothing in our church doctrine that states that Jesus was a married Polygamist or that he was even married at all, while there are prominent members of the LDS faith and also of other Christian faiths that choose to believe this, there is no official church doctrine on the subject, and any statement to the contrary is wrong, and is misinformation...

I could go on and on about my faith and church...but I will spare you, I only hope that you might come to see that members of the LDS church aren't that bad...

I consider myself a christian, just as you are. We might take issue on doctrinal points, but I believe in Jesus Christ, and to me that is the most important part of christianity that there is. If you don't want to consider me a christian, that is fine, as long as you do not doubt my faith in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and my belief that he led a perfect life and died for my sins.

if you have any questions and want an opinion about the LDS church from someone that is LDS and will not try to change your views, or argue with you, feel free to IM me.

good luck in your further study and I hope that you don't always believe the first thing you read about any religion...

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: FreshFish
Let's get to the real question: who's right?

Any that don't put importance on being saved, what happens to them after death, or what happens to other people after death; and who do what they will, without infringing on the wills of others, save to bolster the capacity for others to do their own.

 

[Chebago]

Originally posted by: Kanalua
Are there any other Mormons in this forum? How was church today? Mine was good...wish it didn't start at 8:30 am...but it sure beats the old 2:30p-5:30p schedule we had last year...get out of church and it was DARK outside!!! at least in the winter time...

That is funny because we were just out home teaching and talking about how we are excited that our church schedule is going to change from our current 8:30-11:30am schedule at the start of the school year. I can finally sleep in again...

 

[AdamMT1618]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

The Trinity is a held beleif by Catholics and Protestants, so what are you talking about?

If you want to invalidate his claim that he is not a Christian for certain beliefs you think he has, I'd suggest you defend yourself as a Catholic against the very same things.

Do you know anything about the case brought against Catholicism for having Saints, a Pope, or any number of other things that would classify the Catholic religion as not a form of Christianity?

Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

And Martin Luther's ninety-five theses were posted in 1517, so by that logic Protestants aren't Christians either.

It's comforting to you, though not in any way logical, to draw a line at a date saying "anything revealed after this is heresy" but only your faith makes that belief true.

LDS: 1 You: 0

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

And Martin Luther's ninety-five theses were posted in 1517, so by that logic Protestants aren't Christians either.

It's comforting to you, though not in any way logical, to draw a line at a date saying "anything revealed after this is heresy" but only your faith makes that belief true.

LDS: 1 You: 0

 

[AdamMT1618]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

And Martin Luther's ninety-five theses were posted in 1517, so by that logic Protestants aren't Christians either.

It's comforting to you, though not in any way logical, to draw a line at a date saying "anything revealed after this is heresy" but only your faith makes that belief true.

LDS: 1 You: 0

Because protestants accept the trinitarian theology that there are 3 Divine Persons in 1.

Mormons reject the trinity.

If you can not understand this, then I am not sure I can help you any further. With that said, I am done with this conversation, but you can discuss more of this here if wanting a better Catholic prospective.

To those who remained charitable, I thank you.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

And Martin Luther's ninety-five theses were posted in 1517, so by that logic Protestants aren't Christians either.

It's comforting to you, though not in any way logical, to draw a line at a date saying "anything revealed after this is heresy" but only your faith makes that belief true.

LDS: 1 You: 0

Because protestants accept the trinitarian theology that there are 3 Divine Persons in 1.

Mormons reject the trinity.

If you can not understand this, then I am not sure I can help you any further. With that said, I am done with this conversation, but you http://forums.catholic-convert.com/index.php]http://forums.catholic-convert.com/index.php">discuss this more here if wanting a better Catholic prospective.</a>

To those who remained charitable, I thank you.

And if you "cannot understand" that the date at which mormon Christianity arose is not relevant (though cited as evidence by you) then there is indeed no point in debating the view of who is Christian.

<-- not a mormon, just willing to apply reason to the discussion.

 

[SinNisTeR]

hahaha @ OP's ignorance. That's all I'll say in this thread.

 

[Kanalua]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: Kanalua
oh yeah, Am I a Christian, of course! it IS the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints...no creed or anyone else can tell me any different...so...deal with it...

My belief convicts me and demands that I tell the world out there that I am different and set apart. I am different from Mormons (LDS) in every belief and every point of doctrine and practice. There is no common ground, save perhaps in the name of Jesus Christ. But as I pointed out, the "Jesus" we believe in is different from the one you proclaim to believe in.

So by your reasoning, I could claim that ONLY Mormon's are Christian, everyone else are not. By your reasoning, being Christian is determined by the popularity (creeds/history) of your beliefs...that sounds like a great basis for truth...

And still you cannot deal with the fact that Mormons are Christian...

Are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Christian? Yes! Why, Because they believe so...once again, no creed or sectarian crying can determine otherwise! Deal...

 

[Kanalua]

Sweet...just found out that where we're moving to in Hawaii, the Ward starts at 11:30am...sweet!

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Of course, which can all be debunked. I am not sure what your point is, I am speaking of Christians in general, the beleifs Catholics and Protestants hold as core beleifs that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and that it was not until 1829 that Morminism came around and seperated itself from Christian core beleifs.

And Martin Luther's ninety-five theses were posted in 1517, so by that logic Protestants aren't Christians either.

It's comforting to you, though not in any way logical, to draw a line at a date saying "anything revealed after this is heresy" but only your faith makes that belief true.

LDS: 1 You: 0

Because protestants accept the trinitarian theology that there are 3 Divine Persons in 1.

Mormons reject the trinity.

If you can not understand this, then I am not sure I can help you any further. With that said, I am done with this conversation, but you can discuss http://forums.catholic-convert.com/index.php">more of this here</a> if wanting a better Catholic prospective.

To those who remained charitable, I thank you.

Mormons do not reject the trinity.

It doesn't matter though cause all of your "christian" cults are going to roast.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: randal

Originally posted by: redly1
wow, someone likes to type

no, 90% of his post is cut'n'pasted from some other website, so it's not even original thinking.

Neither was that which led to your conception and birth, so feel free to end yourself at any time.

Doing my part to keep humanity unique since 1973.

 

[SirFshAlot]

Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
But Christians beleive in the Trinity and Mormons do not, so to a Mormon, there can not be another type of Christian.

Are you serious?
That's like saying "Mormons don't have a catholic Pope, so they can't believe in Jesus".
The "trinity" is just a term adopted by some faiths, while other faiths don't use that term.
From what I understand, the mormons believe in God the Father, His son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. 3 beings. What is a trinity, if not 3? Semantics.

The foolish thing about the original post; you don't use a ruler to determine weight, nor a scale to measure distance.........if you want to look for spiritual truth, use spiritual tools.


[edit]
per websters.com

trinity

a word not found in Scripture, but used to express the doctrine of the unity of
God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas,
first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The propositions
involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but
one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2.
That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona,
suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That
Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and
the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

 

[Penth]

The lack of some people's education is astounding. Just because Mormons don't fit the OPs definition of Christian or the Orthodox definition Christian doesn't mean that Mormons aren't Christian. It just means the OP needs to study more before he starts a thread like this. As many have pointed out, it is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. 'nuff said.

 

[alkemyst]

CHRISTians = CHRIST

end of story to the definition.

If you want to get all perked up and thumping call it anything else.

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
CHRISTians = CHRIST

end of story to the definition.

If you want to get all perked up and thumping call it anything else.

Mormons believe that Christ wasn't the last prophet.

 

[SirFshAlot]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: alkemyst
CHRISTians = CHRIST

end of story to the definition.

If you want to get all perked up and thumping call it anything else.

Mormons believe that Christ wasn't the last prophet.

so what?

people make things too complicated
If they try to follow Jesus Christ's teaching, then they are Christian.....everything else is moot.

And why do people that aren't of a certain faith really care one way or another....is it THAT threatening to what you DO believe?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: alkemyst
CHRISTians = CHRIST

end of story to the definition.

If you want to get all perked up and thumping call it anything else.

Mormons believe that Christ wasn't the last prophet.

Catholics believe if you put on the right hat you become infallible, and that some people can channel divine powers. They also make idols.

 

[huesmann]

religion==cult

ANY religion.