Why no mini-DTX boards? (or: GPU + sound card in a mini-ITX system?)

[SnowLeopard]

So being an audiophile gamer, I find myself needing at least two slots on a mb: one for the GPU and one for a high-end sound card like the Sound Blaster ZxR. But I've also been interested in building as small a system as possible. That two-slot minimum has always ruled out mini-ITX systems, obviously, but then I stumble across this beauty of a case (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case) that specifically mentions support for an mb form factor I had never heard of: mini-DTX. That ff allows for two slots, which sounded perfect for my needs!

So I started searching around. There is only one mDTX board that I can find for sale, and it is an Atom part. No thanks. So, I'm wondering: is this a new form factor or an old one that died off? Why didn't it succeed? Too niche?

 

[2timer]

I don't know why, the big OEMs just never started supporting it

 

[Ryun]

A lot of Mini-ITX boards come with a mini PCI-E slot somewhere on the motherboard (for a wireless card, or something).

Some people have had good success plugging their sound card into a mini PCI-E to PCI-E adapter. If you really wanna go small, you could try that.

 

[SnowLeopard]

Whoa, that's a great idea! Thanks for the tip, Ryun. Looks like they have flexible ones which would be good for securing the card to a slot on the case that may be located away from the mb's mpci-e port.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

So I started searching around. There is only one mDTX board that I can find for sale, and it is an Atom part. No thanks. So, I'm wondering: is this a new form factor or an old one that died off? Why didn't it succeed? Too niche?

While not exactly mDTX, there are a few options between ITX and mATX. These boards have 3 expansion slots, where ITX has one and mATX (usually) has four.

I would recommend the Gigabyte B75M-D2V, as it has SATA3 and USB3 built in.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H61MAUSB3/#overview
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H61MPLUS/
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4402#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4504#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4502#ov

 

[Ryun]

Whoa, that's a great idea! Thanks for the tip, Ryun. Looks like they have flexible ones which would be good for securing the card to a slot on the case that may be located away from the mb's mpci-e port.

You're welcome . I've been toying around with doing it myself but I'm pretty happy with my SG02 + mATX setup.

 

[Sureshot324]

You could consider a motherboard with good integrated sound. For example some of the new Asrock Z87 boards have what they call Purity Sound. Basically it's the latest Realtek ALC1150 chip, electric shielding, and a dedicated headphone amp for the front audio.

 

[SnowLeopard]

@Insert_Nickname: True, but those would not fit into mITX cases, would they?

@Ryun: Yeah, that is a great combo. I'm just sort of playing with the idea of going as small as I can for my needs.

@Sureshot324: Those are the new Haswell boards they were showing off at Computex, right? The onboard sound on those do have good specs, but they still don't beat the ZxR's specs and gaming prowess with headphones.

Actually, after eyeballing the back of those shoebox-style mITX cases like the SG08 which technically have two expansion slots on the back, I'm wondering if that second slot is even useable with a double height GPU?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

@Insert_Nickname: True, but those would not fit into mITX cases, would they?

Unfortunately no. You more or less need a case that can handle mATX. That being said, you could properly get by with a slim mATX case since the boards are not full mATX.

 

[piasabird]

Gigabyte sells a Mini-ITX board with the wireless card in the Mini Pci-Express slot already. A few other companies do the same.

Example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128568

 

[SnowLeopard]

Well, confirmed that mITX cases with only two slots won't work for me with a dual-slot GPU. Need something with at least 3 slots.

That said, on their website Silverstone is showing off their new SG10 case. Looks awesome. Not super small but very doable.

The smallest case I could find that is mATX is the SG02F. Anyone know of an mATX case smaller than that?

 

[Wreckem]

Well, confirmed that mITX cases with only two slots won't work for me with a dual-slot GPU. Need something with at least 3 slots.

That said, on their website Silverstone is showing off their new SG10 case. Looks awesome. Not super small but very doable.

The smallest case I could find that is mATX is the SG02F. Anyone know of an mATX case smaller than that?

The only small three slot mitx case is the crowdsourced NCASE M1, which is only slightly bigger(by volume) than the Sugo 05, and smaller than the Sugo 08(again by volume).

The OEM that is producing the case for the NCASE developers is Lian Li. They have already started using the NCASE styling(and some novel features) on some of their recently shown cases, its just a matter of time before they release a mitx case with 3 slots.

That said, its been said that it will be extremely tricky(and you give up a fan) to get a mpcie flex cable and sound card situated in the third slot.

 

[Wreckem]

So being an audiophile gamer, I find myself needing at least two slots on a mb: one for the GPU and one for a high-end sound card like the Sound Blaster ZxR. But I've also been interested in building as small a system as possible. That two-slot minimum has always ruled out mini-ITX systems, obviously, but then I stumble across this beauty of a case (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case) that specifically mentions support for an mb form factor I had never heard of: mini-DTX. That ff allows for two slots, which sounded perfect for my needs!

So I started searching around. There is only one mDTX board that I can find for sale, and it is an Atom part. No thanks. So, I'm wondering: is this a new form factor or an old one that died off? Why didn't it succeed? Too niche?

It was a form factor started by AMD that never really took off. There has only ever been a handful of Intel based boards that were minidtx. Heck mitx was and still is a relatively niche product.

There is only one current Intel based minidtx board. It is an ECS board and it is based on H61, so its bare bones and no SATA III/6Gbs.

http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...ilID=1427&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=1&LanID=0

And people have looked into a custom minidtx board. It'd have to be crowdfunded, but that is not likely doable as it would likely take about ~$80-$100k for a prototype + a second production campaign. It is way to niche of a product to be successfully crowdfunded.

 

[_Rick_]

If you look at some Shuttle barebones, you'll find some two-slot solutions. If your video card isn't double wide, those could be interesting.

The Shuttle XPC-SZ77R5 seems to be a good match.
This does wed you to the barebone mentality though, I'm not sure how easy it is to swap mainboards in those cases, or even replace PSUs, without ordering directly from Shuttle.

 

[SnowLeopard]

its been said that it will be extremely tricky(and you give up a fan) to get a mpcie flex cable and sound card situated in the third slot.

Yeah, what little I'm finding seems to confirm this. Not sure now whether I want to take the risk to find out myself. It's a shame too, because that mPCIe slot on lots of mITX boards would be unutilized anyway by people like me who don't need a wireless connection.

If you look at some Shuttle barebones, you'll find some two-slot solutions. If your video card isn't double wide, those could be interesting.

The Shuttle XPC-SZ77R5 seems to be a good match.
This does wed you to the barebone mentality though, I'm not sure how easy it is to swap mainboards in those cases, or even replace PSUs, without ordering directly from Shuttle.

Thanks for coming up with a unique solution. But really, several mITX cases already have two slots, so I would prefer to just go that route if I were to use a single-slot GPU. The problem though is that I can't find any single-slot cards powerful enough to fit my gaming needs, so two-slot cases just won't work for me I guess.

 

[Zap]

I've also been interested in building as small a system as possible. That two-slot minimum has always ruled out mini-ITX systems

ZALMAN ZM-T2
6.65" x 16.73" x 13.7"

By volume it is around 3/4 the size of a mini ITX Bitfenix Prodigy, yet it is micro ATX.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

if your primary concern is audio, I wouldn't worry too much about a new form factor, the new trend with Z87/Haswell happens to be much improved on-board audio, and its definitely trickling down to ITX, the ASUS ROG Impact for instance (which actually rivals its bigger brother mATX GENE model in terms of onboard features):

http://anandtech.com/show/7023/asus-rog-press-conference-rog-maximus-vi-formula-and-impact

 

[SnowLeopard]

ZALMAN ZM-T2
6.65" x 16.73" x 13.7"

By volume it is around 3/4 the size of a mini ITX Bitfenix Prodigy, yet it is micro ATX.

Huh, didn't realize the Prodigy was so big. Actually, the new SG10 is even smaller than that Zalman by volume.

 

[santilmo]

Just like you, I too wanted to go ITX but the only thing holding me back is that I have a PCIe soundcard as I can't bear typical on-board Realteks (ALC8xx series) really...

However, I am starting to see the light at the other end of the tunnel............. ASUS ROG Impact...

Will wait and see how this little monster will perform...