why not buy a mac?

joecool

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2001
2,934
2
81
i've been a pc user almost as long as there have been pc's. i've always built my own, and modded them, and overclocked them, and mostly had a ball doing it. i've never owned a mac, and never been particularly tempted to. however, over the past few years i have become increasingly interested in mac, or, to be more accurate, osx. simply put, it really looks gorgeous, with some very neat features. since the introduction of the mac mini i've been even more tempted - it's reasonbly cheap, comes with a decent package of software (ilife) and a spiffy little remote. since i've already got a kvm there are no hidden costs. true, with the introduction of vista microsoft seems to be addressing many of the benefits of osx, but there are many things about vista i just don't like - the drm seems draconian, as does the eula, drivers for peripherals will be a real issue for me, and the uac completely blows. so in the end vista is really just some eye candy with a lot of annoying baggage.

having said all that, i'm still curious, from experienced and objective observers (not just fanboys!), why i shouldn't buy a mac? and please, try to contain your comments to reality-based, objective facts.

thanks,

joe
 

thescreensavers

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2005
9,916
2
81
I cant switch to mac spent my whole day on a mac and I was glad I was back on my PC woo that felt so good that I could actually play games woot!!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
If you're interested, then it really doesn't matter. The Mac Mini is one of my favorite computers and is very easy to upgrade (processor/ram/hard drive/dvd burner), plus you can get adapters to use full-sized drives with them for case mods. OS X is great and you can still run Windows, either dual-boot or virtually using Parallels. I'd say go for it! Plus you have BSD (Unix) backing you up
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
I prefer building my computers.

and I dont think that Visual Studio 2005 works on macs (C# and VB.NET anyone?)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
Originally posted by: thescreensavers
I cant switch to mac spent my whole day on a mac and I was glad I was back on my PC woo that felt so good that I could actually play games woot!!

Well right off the top of my head:

1. Poor gaming support; poor graphics card in low-end machines (Mac Mini)
2. Expensive
3. Not very expandable/upgradable ($2500 to get a tower that supports add-in cards)
 

joecool

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2001
2,934
2
81
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: thescreensavers
I cant switch to mac spent my whole day on a mac and I was glad I was back on my PC woo that felt so good that I could actually play games woot!!

Well right off the top of my head:

1. Poor gaming support; poor graphics card in low-end machines (Mac Mini)
2. Expensive
3. Not very expandable/upgradable ($2500 to get a tower that supports add-in cards)

well, #2 and #3 are why i wouldn't get anything buy a mini - this wouldn't be my main machine, just something to fiddle on, maybe to photo processing type stuff. as far as #1 goes, i'm married with two grade school kids - who the hell has time for gaming any more?!
 

OSX

Senior member
Feb 9, 2006
662
0
0
Games support is not a function of manufacturer. Games support is a function of the developers. What are you expecting, a 500$ box to have SLi'd 8800GTX's or something?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
Originally posted by: joecool
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: thescreensavers
I cant switch to mac spent my whole day on a mac and I was glad I was back on my PC woo that felt so good that I could actually play games woot!!

Well right off the top of my head:

1. Poor gaming support; poor graphics card in low-end machines (Mac Mini)
2. Expensive
3. Not very expandable/upgradable ($2500 to get a tower that supports add-in cards)

well, #2 and #3 are why i wouldn't get anything buy a mini - this wouldn't be my main machine, just something to fiddle on, maybe to photo processing type stuff. as far as #1 goes, i'm married with two grade school kids - who the hell has time for gaming any more?!

It's called "family time"
 

joecool

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2001
2,934
2
81
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: joecool
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: thescreensavers
I cant switch to mac spent my whole day on a mac and I was glad I was back on my PC woo that felt so good that I could actually play games woot!!

Well right off the top of my head:

1. Poor gaming support; poor graphics card in low-end machines (Mac Mini)
2. Expensive
3. Not very expandable/upgradable ($2500 to get a tower that supports add-in cards)

well, #2 and #3 are why i wouldn't get anything buy a mini - this wouldn't be my main machine, just something to fiddle on, maybe to photo processing type stuff. as far as #1 goes, i'm married with two grade school kids - who the hell has time for gaming any more?!

It's called "family time"

yeah, i tried that once ... for some reason my wife didn't appreciate my 8-year-old getting fragged by dad at serious sam!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
Originally posted by: joecool

yeah, i tried that once ... for some reason my wife didn't appreciate my 8-year-old getting fragged by dad at serious sam!

Luckily there's about 50+ family/children's games for Mac...dunno if this link works but give it a try, listing of all the family games at the Apple Store online.

 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
I use both, but the vast majority of my use comes from PCs. I have a couple older macs that I use just for fun.

I simply can't justify the price premium of a mac so I can do user end stuff on it, like email, web, word processing, music apps etc.
Sure you can run windows on a mac, but why would I pay the premium for a mac so I can run windows as well?
There is also the fact that I use plenty of small third party applications for windows, from burning apps, to music ripping/encoding apps, to software I use for work. Yes I can run windows on a mac, but why would I bother doing that when the vast majority of my use is with PC software.

Sometimes I wish I had a valid reason to buy a mac, but really all I need is cheap PCs running windows or some variant of BSD or linux.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
Because you don't need one?
Because it's a waste of money as it can't do anything your PC can do, and can probably do less?
Because it's more expensive than buying a regular PC?

Vista's DRM isn't really going to be any worse than OSX's. If you want to play protected content, you are going to have to jump through hoops, whatever OS you use.
 

jhayx7

Platinum Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,226
0
0
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Because you don't need one?
Because it's a waste of money as it can't do anything your PC can do, and can probably do less?
Because it's more expensive than buying a regular PC?

Vista's DRM isn't really going to be any worse than OSX's. If you want to play protected content, you are going to have to jump through hoops, whatever OS you use.

Wow, sign me up for your newsletter! Your vast knowledge impresses me!
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
I prefer building my computers.

and I dont think that Visual Studio 2005 works on macs (C# and VB.NET anyone?)

I think you're correct about VS2005. I think the people in my class with a mac had to dual boot.

 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Here is a very good article on the pros and cons of switching.

Globe and Mail Article

In the first week of January, my main Windows PC started to peter out. Given all the software that gets loaded and deleted from that thing on a weekly basis, it's usually a once-a-year event to wipe the hard drive down and reinstall Microsoft XP to get that oh-so-fresh computing feeling going again. This time, however, I decided that I finally needed to bite the bullet and invest in a new machine.

There's been a lot of hype lately around Microsoft's new operating system, Windows Vista, which was launched to consumers Jan. 30 - but I really wanted a change. So rather than wait for Vista I went off and purchased a 20-inch iMac for about $1,700 before taxes.

Yes, this is more than I've paid for a desktop computer in years, and my wife is now officially ignoring any comments I make about her crack-like shoe fetish. So between the bill and the adjustment to Apple's OS X operating system, am I suffering from buyer's remorse?

In a word, no.

In terms of my computing history, I've been a Windows guy since back in the early Triassic period. Spending the past decade as the "computer" guy for friends, family and colleagues has taught me enough workarounds, tweaks and God-awful Band-Aid solutions to keep me employable well into my golden years. That said, I don't really enjoy all the messing around I have to do in order to work with computers.

Don't get me wrong. Windows XP has been a great OS for me most of the time. I can buy and run zillions of programs for every conceivable need on a PC, and I get a boatload of work done on it every week. My frustrations have to do with the whole "Windows experience," and the operating system is just one part of that equation, which is why I decided to get some experience with a Mac and see how the two different styles of computing compared.

Considering control issues
While Microsoft makes the Windows operating system, any Tom, Dick or Harry can make the hardware that it runs on. That means lots of selection in terms of computer hardware and add-ons, but when something goes wrong, in classic IT style, the hardware people can blame the software and the software people can blame the hardware.

Apple, on the other hand, controls both the hardware AND the operating system, thereby having a far better lock on the overall computing experience on their product. This is why the cliché "it just works" tag line for Macs actually rings quite true.

Further, virtually all the viruses and spyware out there that can create either subtle or disastrous problems on your machine aren't written for Macs. There is some truth to the much-touted claim that the Mac OS is naturally more secure than other operating systems. But the bigger factor to my mind is that there are just far fewer Macs out there, so society's always-bountiful crop of jerks and criminals isn't committing anywhere near the same sort of time to making Mac problems.

So what does that mean for you, the potential "switcher?" In my experience so far, it means that going with a Mac could save you a lot of headaches.

Intuitive design helps in setup
After three weeks with the iMac, I have to say that the overall experience is considerably more pleasant than anything I have experienced with Windows. The computer and LCD screen are all one piece, so setup basically involved plugging in the power cables, and setting up the keyboard and mouse. The built-in camera, pre-installed software and intuitive design made the get-up-and-running process a breeze.

Just about everything from iChat to iTunes is amazingly integrated and easy to use as well. Both printers, the video-capture device, scanner and all three digital cameras in my house were recognized without any issues, and the machine's built-in Wireless G WiFi adapter worked just as it should.

The 20-inch widescreen display is bright, and provides an 800:1 contrast ratio and a 170-degree viewing angle. I cannot overstate how nice that looks while watching movies on your computer, surfing two full web pages at the same time, or flying over the world in Google Earth.

As to sound, it comes from downward-firing 24-watt speakers that do a far-better-than-average job. If you want to use your iMac as a primary home entertainment system, however, I highly recommend investing in good external speakers.

Front Row serves as competition
This would probably be a good time to mention Front Row. For those of you considering a Windows Media Center Edition PC, this is the Mac competition: A click of the supplied remote opens up a simple and attractive full-screen interface to showcase and control your pictures, movies and music.

The little remote hangs onto the side of your iMac via an unseen magnet. Like many things iMac, the focus is on minimalist simplicity and the remote is no exception. It basically looks like a thinner version of the first iPod Shuffle. The software is easy to use and looks great.

This brings me to another factor that I am less proud of being so unreasonably happy with. The iMac is simply a beautifully designed machine you will actually want to show off. From the design of the computer itself, to the bright vivid screen, to the beautifully graphic software, everything about the iMac is pure eye candy. I admit that I was the first guy to complain about system resources wasted on special effects and high-resolution decorations in the past, but in the iMac, the visuals are over the top and I still can't help but like it.

There are pitfalls
OK ... enough with the love-in.

Is this machine perfect? No. The operating system may well be as stable as advertised (it has never crashed on me), but I still have various software freeze-ups every week.

The difference here in terms of the hassle for me is one of degree. Every time a freeze-up happens on the iMac, I can just close the program and reopen it quickly - no reboot involved. In Windows, I often have to reboot to get things working again.

Also, as someone largely unfamiliar with Mac OS X, I had a little learning to do, and there are some things that someone switching to Mac might find a little annoying. For example, I downloaded a piece of software for my Windows machine using the iMac, and wanted to burn the file to a CD in a format known as an ISO Image. As it turns out, Macs use a different system, so you have to use a trick with the disk utility software or buy a third-party application to get it done.

There's also the issue of the mouse. The one that comes with the iMac does some very interesting stuff, but default setting designates it as a one-button mouse - you press down anywhere on the front edge of the mouse to click on things on the screen. As a brand new Mac user I was fooled into thinking this was the only configuration, and I thought that I'd have to buy another mouse to get two buttons. In fact, under the one-piece moulded shell there are actually hidden right and left buttons built into the iMac's standard mouse. After I first posted this column, helpful Mac veterans pointed out that to use the mouse to do the good old one-handed right-click-copy/paste, for example, you can go into the "Keyboard & Mouse" menu and turn on the right button.

There is also the really annoying problem of not having Excel and Word, or at least a decent equivalent, pre-loaded on the machine. Many Windows machines come with this software preloaded, while on the iMac there is a straightforward word processor, but nothing close to the robust options available in MS Word. Amazingly, the ability to make and edit spreadsheets is entirely missing. Yes, you can buy MS Office for Mac, but that's yet another thing to buy (for about $400), and when you're nearly $2,000 out of pocket for the Mac hardware (after taxes), being able to do spreadsheets out of the box would be rather nice ?

Thankfully, I found a Mac-compatible office suite based on Open Office that is free and works quite well. Still, it would be nice to have stuff like this included on a machine that is expensive, and touted as being ready to go right out of the box.

On the third-party software front, it has often been said that there are FAR fewer applications available for the Mac platform than for Windows - particularly for gaming. This is very true. However, the vast majority of the day-to-day operations I do (except for spreadsheets), such as editing pictures, importing clips from my camcorder, web browsing, video conferencing, e-mail and so on, have been covered in the pre-installed software. There is also one interesting thing to point out to Mac newcomers. If you need a specialized program that does not have a Mac equivalent, you can buy a copy of Windows XP and install it on the Mac as a separate operating system in order to run Windows-only software. The Dual Core Intel Macs have enough horsepower to run the XP operating system and Mac OS X at the same time, so the main consideration here is the cost of the Windows licence if you don't already have one.

Upgrades aren't easy
The one big drawback with the iMac is upgradeability. The all-in-one computer and monitor setup is attractive, but it is also a closed system. Unlike your standard CPU tower, there is no easy way for the average user to upgrade things like the hard drive or video card.

The exception to this is the iMac's memory, which is easily accessed and upgradeable to 3 gigabytes. But before buying, I'd recommend taking a good look at the specs to see if the rest of the machine's hardware meets your requirements for the next few years, because once you put your money down, you are stuck with most of the store-bought configuration.

The bottom line
The Cult of the Mac is one amazingly dedicated group of enthusiasts, and it's easy to see why they're so fond of these machines. The iMac is well built both in terms of design and function.

Is having an iMac really the "manna-from-heaven" for computer users that the Mac faithful say it is? Not really. It's a great computer, but in this price range, there is plenty of good stuff available from the competition too. It's easy to set up and use an iMac, but it doesn't have the upgradeability and software availability that Windows does. Mac OS X tends to be more stable than other operating systems, but it still encounters glitches from time to time. And it's not impervious to virus and hacker attacks as some would have you believe.

The main advantage Apple has, however, is that it has built a great computer that uses an operating system and hardware designed by the same company. Overall, this does make for a smoother computing experience, and from that perspective, the decision to switch from Windows to a Mac is a choice I so far do not regret.

 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,198
9
81
For the home PC, it's a matter of $$$...for a laptop, I use an ultraportable, so until they announce a new 12" laptop...
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
the most important reason:

people on atot will hate you for it and call you names.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
I have a mac mini, the $600 1.66 dual core duo, and I love it. I'll never replace windows as my main OS, but i like using something different sometimes. Plus, if you don't like osx for whatever reason, you can easily just put windows on it.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,120
10,949
136
cost: new dells/hps/etc. can be had for <$500. what decent, new mac can i buy for that much?
 

AVP

Senior member
Jan 19, 2005
885
0
76
Macs do have some great software for video editing and such. Not sure if it is included but if it is, you may find a new hobby. I remember when I was younger my family purchased an iMac. It was significantly faster than our older system but my mother, not someone who is adept at computers found it very annoying to use. I am sure the new OS is a lot better, but if your used to windows you may get a headache.
 
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