why not tax net worth in addition to income?

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,303
5,732
136
many people think that rich people dont pay enough in taxes. a lot of this comes from the fact that their net worth is much higher than their income. one solution to this would be to start taxing peoples net worth as well as their income. say, %2 of net worth each year. it would be great for the deficit.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Wait, so you want me to pay tax on stuff I already own and paid taxes on? Year after year after year?

Yeah, I vote no on that.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
The growth of income inequality of the last 5 years is primarily being driven by the Federal Reserve.

You see the rich get their loans at 0.25% interest, that hedge funds can get use to gobble up large swathes of land and property and then charge us a much higher number on a mortgage, say 4-5%. You know what the difference between those two numbers are? It's called arbitrage, a basic concept of economics, and arbitrage enabled by the Fed is the primary driver of income inequality. Oh and what if you default on your mortgage you wonder, isn't the difference in rates because of risk the investors take? Well the Fed buys mortgage-backed securities. It has the rich covered. No risk profit, with none of the profits coming from increased productivity.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,161
136
The growth of income inequality of the last 5 years is primarily being driven by the Federal Reserve.

You see the rich get their loans at 0.25% interest, that hedge funds can get use to gobble up large swathes of land and property and then charge us a much higher number on a mortgage, say 4-5%. You know what the difference between those two numbers are? It's called arbitrage, a basic concept of economics, and arbitrage enabled by the Fed is the primary driver of income inequality. Oh and what if you default on your mortgage you wonder, isn't the difference in rates because of risk the investors take? Well the Fed buys mortgage-backed securities. It has the rich covered. No risk profit, with none of the profits coming from increased productivity.

You know what's bullshit about your post? The fact that income distribution gap has been growing steadily for decades, even before any fed intervention.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
I say tax net worth of people worth over 30 billion dollars, and tax their charity donations as well.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
The growth of income inequality of the last 5 years is primarily being driven by the Federal Reserve.

You see the rich get their loans at 0.25% interest, that hedge funds can get use to gobble up large swathes of land and property and then charge us a much higher number on a mortgage, say 4-5%. You know what the difference between those two numbers are? It's called arbitrage, a basic concept of economics, and arbitrage enabled by the Fed is the primary driver of income inequality. Oh and what if you default on your mortgage you wonder, isn't the difference in rates because of risk the investors take? Well the Fed buys mortgage-backed securities. It has the rich covered. No risk profit, with none of the profits coming from increased productivity.

There is no evidence for this assertion.

This is also not a case of arbitrage. Arbitrage is taking advantage of the price differential between two markets where there's no possibility of losing money (or in practice, only a very small one). Loaning out money at a higher rate than it takes you to borrow it is not arbitrage because there is a different risk profile involved for clients.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
There is no evidence for this assertion.

This is also not a case of arbitrage. Arbitrage is taking advantage of the price differential between two markets where there's no possibility of losing money (or in practice, only a very small one). Loaning out money at a higher rate than it takes you to borrow it is not arbitrage because there is a different risk profile involved for clients.

Mortgages are guaranteed basically by the federal government. The only risk is that the borrower pays you back in full in advance of the mortgage ending.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
If only we could have bills of attainder and ensure those we want to tax paid "their fair share." It's really unfortunate that we can pass laws to tax people at a certain rate we determine is proper, then they use deductions and loopholes to pay another amount entirely.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Mortgages are guaranteed basically by the federal government. The only risk is that the borrower pays you back in full in advance of the mortgage ending.

So how did all those financial companies go out of business because people didn't pay their mortgages?

Don't feel bad. Apparently a lot of professionals thought mortgages were "basically guaranteed" too.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
I doubt anything like this would ever happen and even if it did the myriad of trust options will ensure the wealth taxes won't be felt by the upper class but by the middle class
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
So how did all those financial companies go out of business because people didn't pay their mortgages?

Don't feel bad. Apparently a lot of professionals thought mortgages were "basically guaranteed" too.

What was subprime loans.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
many people think that rich people dont pay enough in taxes. a lot of this comes from the fact that their net worth is much higher than their income. one solution to this would be to start taxing peoples net worth as well as their income. say, %2 of net worth each year. it would be great for the deficit.

2%? Do you understand how that would destroy the investor class in this country? Dont forget a lot of middle class workers have retirement funds that would get hit with this. They arent savvy enough nor have enough time to invest to beat this 2% drain on their wealth.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
Mortgages are guaranteed basically by the federal government. The only risk is that the borrower pays you back in full in advance of the mortgage ending.

This is not accurate. Not only are not all mortgages guaranteed by the federal government (as we recently saw), but higher inflation rates can be very damaging to mortgage issuers.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
2%? Do you understand how that would destroy the investor class in this country? Dont forget a lot of middle class workers have retirement funds that would get hit with this. They arent savvy enough nor have enough time to invest to beat this 2% drain on their wealth.

We should tax at 20% after 30 billion a year. Tax the charity contributions as well.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
2%? Do you understand how that would destroy the investor class in this country? Dont forget a lot of middle class workers have retirement funds that would get hit with this. They arent savvy enough nor have enough time to invest to beat this 2% drain on their wealth.

The only way this would work is if we had a global wealth tax. Otherwise it would just destroy demand for wealth within an individual country. It would be easy to make it a wealth tax only on fortunes greater than X dollars, anyway.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
This is not accurate. Not only are not all mortgages guaranteed by the federal government (as we recently saw), but higher inflation rates can be very damaging to mortgage issuers.

So is the impact to mortgage issuers the reason you continually push for higher inflation, or just collateral damage? And we won't even touch the concept of whether the federal government should be in the mortgage insurance business at all and thus creating the resulting moral hazard.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
The only way this would work is if we had a global wealth tax. Otherwise it would just destroy demand for wealth within an individual country. It would be easy to make it a wealth tax only on fortunes greater than X dollars, anyway.

But 2%? I think it is difficult enough beating inflation, maintenance fee's, transaction fee's, and capital gains taxes to generate wealth. Taking on a flat 2% cost of ownership would run down most people's wealth over time.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
The only way this would work is if we had a global wealth tax. Otherwise it would just destroy demand for wealth within an individual country. It would be easy to make it a wealth tax only on fortunes greater than X dollars, anyway.

Mostly wrong on all counts. A non-global wealth tax would "work" but only if you didn't care that those impacted most were the middle class without the resources to avoid it. Secondly, "demand for wealth" is inelastic, you probably meant demand for assets within the country with the tax (unless you have the stupid "worldwide income" tax system the U.S. uses). And third, it wouldn't be easy - haven't you learned from countless examples that taxes are never paid exactly as you hoped, either in amount or who pays them?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
But 2%? I think it is difficult enough beating inflation, maintenance fee's, transaction fee's, and capital gains taxes to generate wealth. Taking on a flat 2% cost of ownership would run down most people's wealth over time.

Which is the point of course. To eliminate private ownership of property and make us all rent from the government.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
But 2%? I think it is difficult enough beating inflation, maintenance fee's, transaction fee's, and capital gains taxes to generate wealth. Taking on a flat 2% cost of ownership would run down most people's wealth over time.

How does a 2% wealth tax differ from the dollar devaulation policy being pushed now by Obama (and by Dubya before him)? The effect is the same and isn't even as progressive as a wealth tax since it impacts everyone including the poorest.
 
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