Why not Universal Automobile Insurance?

[thegimp03]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Well with all of this talk about UHC, why isnt there any talk about UAI? It would allow many Americans who do not have auto insurance to be able to drive legally without fear.

The simple plan would to increase the rates of the middle aged safe drivers as then lower the price of the risky drivers under 25 years of age and the elderly.



As of now, Auto Insurance companies basically rape you on the cost of coverage. In parts of the country where mass transit is almost unheard off, you need a car in order to survive. You are basically extorted legally into paying high insurance premiums to make the insurance companies money.





Has there been any talk of something like this in the past or present?

No. Why raise the rates on the "middle aged safe drivers"? They've driven safely all those years and haven't gotten tickets or into accidents. Their auto insurance is low for a reason.

Why should they have to pay for some dumbass teenagers who've had like 100 hours behind the wheel of their brand new daddy-provided BMW?

Auto insurance is very affordable, especially with monthly payment plans. Look, if you can't afford $80-100 a month, tough luck. If your auto insurance is too high, there's probably a reason for it, and you shouldn't be on the road anyways.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
You can live without health insurance (how has humanity made it this far without health insurance for the vast majority of human history?!), and no hospital can refuse you for emergency care even if you have no insurance/can't afford it. It's the law.

I have a prescription in my hand for some pills cost over $300 a pop. I need them to live and have to take them for the rest of my life. Are you saying I can just go to the hospital emergency room and they have to give them to me?

If so you have just shown yourself to be a complete idiot.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: senseamp
That's how employee group plans work. They smooth out probability over large group. It is fairly well known on average what the health care costs are going to be for a large enough group. The larger the group, the less impact individual case costs variations make on the overall average.

My one quibble with what you said is here. The difference between group health policies and what is traditionally viewed as "UHC" is that group health still excludes preexisting conditions whereas "UHC" does not. In a group health policy, when it's issued, the insurer says 'We have X people and these are the risks so we know that in the next 20 years Y of them will get cancer, so the rate needs to be Z.' For "UHC" the discussion is 'We have X people and these are the risks so we know that in 20 years Y of them will get cancer, so the tax rate needs to be Z PLUS the cost of treating cancer times the A number of people who already have it.'

I hope you fall into Y and then lose your job/insurance.

 

[Phokus]

Because with Medicine, you have the Insurers and the Medical providers (all the doctors/hospitals/equipment/etc) whereas in auto insurance you only have the insurers... the costs are vastly different.

OP asked an extremely stupid question.

 

[Cattlegod]

We should do universal house insurance too. And universal PMI while we are at it. Hell, why stop there, lets have the gov start insuring bonds and issue CDSs.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: senseamp
That's how employee group plans work. They smooth out probability over large group. It is fairly well known on average what the health care costs are going to be for a large enough group. The larger the group, the less impact individual case costs variations make on the overall average.

My one quibble with what you said is here. The difference between group health policies and what is traditionally viewed as "UHC" is that group health still excludes preexisting conditions whereas "UHC" does not. In a group health policy, when it's issued, the insurer says 'We have X people and these are the risks so we know that in the next 20 years Y of them will get cancer, so the rate needs to be Z.' For "UHC" the discussion is 'We have X people and these are the risks so we know that in 20 years Y of them will get cancer, so the tax rate needs to be Z PLUS the cost of treating cancer times the A number of people who already have it.'

Most large employer group plans do not exclude preexisting conditions.

 

[SigArms08]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Don't want to pay for car insurance? Don't drive.
Don't want to pay for medical insurance? Don't live.

You can live without medical insurance. Humans have been doing it for thousands of years. In a sense you could say the same about Car Insurance. You dont drive, you dont get a good job and starve to death.


Both auto and health insurance are commodities that I think everyone would like. Why not make both affordable?

Auto Insurance is Affordable. About the only thing that makes sense in your proposal is that it would make Auto Insurance Cheaper, but the comparison is severely flawed as Health Issues are guaranteed, while having an Auto Accident is not.

Cheaper for who? The irresponsible people or for those who fall into high risk categories (age/experience).

While brainstorming, why stop at UHC and UAI? Why don't we ask the government to create/enforce a universal housing act? Universal automobiles, universal cell phones, universal groceries, universal cable TV, universal appliances, universal clothes, etc. Our society can have it all!!

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: SigArms08
Cheaper for who? The irresponsible people or for those who fall into high risk categories (age/experience).

While brainstorming, why stop at UHC and UAI? Why don't we ask the government to create/enforce a universal housing act? Universal automobiles, universal cell phones, universal groceries, universal cable TV, universal appliances, universal clothes, etc. Our society can have it all!!

are you saying cable tv and health care are equal? You guys need to come up with better arguments then this. It isn't working.

 

[Fingolfin269]

In for universal universal insurance.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
In for universal universal insurance.

You betcha, and everybody gets paid the same also, whether they're the janitor or the CEO. We all work hard so we should all get the same pay and benefits.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
We should do universal house insurance too. And universal PMI while we are at it. Hell, why stop there, lets have the gov start insuring bonds and issue CDSs.

nah, we should just let wallstreet bankrupt our financial system

 

[SigArms08]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: SigArms08
Cheaper for who? The irresponsible people or for those who fall into high risk categories (age/experience).

While brainstorming, why stop at UHC and UAI? Why don't we ask the government to create/enforce a universal housing act? Universal automobiles, universal cell phones, universal groceries, universal cable TV, universal appliances, universal clothes, etc. Our society can have it all!!

are you saying cable tv and health care are equal? You guys need to come up with better arguments then this. It isn't working.

No, but I did list housing, groceries, and clothes. Are you saying those aren't important?

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: her209
If I eat fast food every day, is that considered a pre-existing "condition"?

Yes. It is called idiocy. I don't think Medical Insurance covers that one so you are out of luck

 

[spittledip]

You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: spittledip
You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

Criminals, eh? Let's just throw all the doctors, insurance companies, and pharma companies in jail and see how healthcare improves.

I hate to fan the flames here, but the constant drive to demonize 'Big X' is a major pet peeve of mine. On what will likely be an ancillary note - I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. Healthcare shouldn't be a right or a handout, but it should be affordable.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: spittledip
You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

They play everyone against each other to make them think someone is getting more "care" (for less "money") then they are. In the end it's 6 1/2 dozen to the other but they don't care as long as they can cash in on people's fear for as long as possible.

 

[sunzt]

If your car is totalled, you don't have to spend more than a couple thousand dollars to buy another car.....

On the other hand, if you get totalled......

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: spittledip
You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

Criminals, eh? Let's just throw all the doctors, insurance companies, and pharma companies in jail and see how healthcare improves.

I hate to fan the flames here, but the constant drive to demonize 'Big X' is a major pet peeve of mine. On what will likely be an ancillary note - I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. Healthcare shouldn't be a right or a handout, but it should be affordable.

Saying that health care "should be " affordable doesn't make it so.

We are all part of this civilization that makes progress possible, aren't we?? Shouldn't we all have access to the same drugs and life saving procedures?

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: spittledip
You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

Criminals, eh? Let's just throw all the doctors, insurance companies, and pharma companies in jail and see how healthcare improves.

I hate to fan the flames here, but the constant drive to demonize 'Big X' is a major pet peeve of mine. On what will likely be an ancillary note - I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. Healthcare shouldn't be a right or a handout, but it should be affordable.

You kinda have to generalize some when speaking about these type of things. The major problem is that someone is making this stuff very very expensive, and none of the players in the system are trying to make it affordable. I am not saying that every doctor out there is just doing it for money or is a scoundrel.. but I am saying that alot of them are. Part of it starts with having to pay for medical school bills, but still that is only part of the problem. BTW, is there a good reason for medical schools to charge so much money? Is it merely to keep it exclusive or is there another reason?

 

[PrinceofWands]

That's my primary objection to the current healthcare discussions. The involvement of insurance companies. It is the nature of insurance itself I object to, and don't want them included in any way with universal coverage requirements. It's just capitalism's answer to socialism. Same exact outcome (the few pay for the many), except instead of being done for the good of mankind, with controls on the exploitation, it's done for the good of the few insurance company holders and investors, with little to no controls in place.

When auto insurance became required by law in Washington state, premiums INCREASED (as did profits for insurance companies). Obviously there's a problem there.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: spittledip
You know, I don't give a damn if they make UHC or not.. all I want is for the crappy medical system to be affordable for everyone one way or the other. This issue is not about the govt running health care- it is about finding a way to make health care affordable for everyone in the US. Unfortunately, I think that this might be an impossibility b/c the doctors and insurance companies and pharms are in control of the system, and a standard for rates have been set by these criminals. Wrestling this out of their hands is a near impossibility and I don't foresee it ending well.

Criminals, eh? Let's just throw all the doctors, insurance companies, and pharma companies in jail and see how healthcare improves.

I hate to fan the flames here, but the constant drive to demonize 'Big X' is a major pet peeve of mine. On what will likely be an ancillary note - I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said. Healthcare shouldn't be a right or a handout, but it should be affordable.

Saying that health care "should be " affordable doesn't make it so.

We are all part of this civilization that makes progress possible, aren't we?? Shouldn't we all have access to the same drugs and life saving procedures?

And, by the same token, shouldn't we all have to pay for them? The issue isn't a simple one. Doctors and researchers work very hard to get through medical school and get a drug approved. Drugs eventually become generic, and procedures eventually become routine. But, honestly without an in depth, detailed discussion, this kind of topic isn't going to make any progress.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: senseamp
This is what opposition to UHC has come down to, a joke.
There is universal automobile insurance requirement in CA. You cannot drive without insurance.

I am actually not opposing UHC in this topic. I am actually for UAI.

Hey, let's add in universal life insurance, universal disability insurance, broader universal unemployment insurance, universal dismemberment insurance, universal spousal life, universal child life, universal pet insurance, universal.......

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think we are all pissed that they are not covering everyone, and no one is planning to stop until they do.
Just emailed DNC telling them to not bother asking for my money, time or vote if they don't deliver on this.

I'm not pissed.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: senseamp
This is what opposition to UHC has come down to, a joke.
There is universal automobile insurance requirement in CA. You cannot drive without insurance.

I am actually not opposing UHC in this topic. I am actually for UAI.

Hey, let's add in universal life insurance, universal disability insurance, broader universal unemployment insurance, universal dismemberment insurance, universal spousal life, universal child life, universal pet insurance, universal.......

We have most of those - SS disability, SS survivor, SS disability, etc..

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: senseamp
This is what opposition to UHC has come down to, a joke.
There is universal automobile insurance requirement in CA. You cannot drive without insurance.

I am actually not opposing UHC in this topic. I am actually for UAI.

Hey, let's add in universal life insurance, universal disability insurance, broader universal unemployment insurance, universal dismemberment insurance, universal spousal life, universal child life, universal pet insurance, universal.......

We have most of those - SS disability, SS survivor, SS disability, etc..

And SS is going to give out more than it takes in by 2016.