Why people, why?

[LTC8K6]

A few weeks is forever in the computer world, and it's been more like a couple months, anyway. It's still hard to find PCI-E 6800GT's.

If I had just shelled out for a nice new SLI board, the temptation to see if it actually worked would be strong.

Overall, I see your point aeternitas, and this is far from the first time it has been raised.

I think that if you buy one 6800GT now, and then wait 6 months to buy another one, you will be disappointed anyway because there will be a faster single card out (or about to come out).

Personally, I think SLI only makes sense if you can buy two 6800GT's or Ultras now and enjoy the benefits of them before the cards are eclipsed.

 

[necine]

I think you can run 2 monitors on the 6600 SLI set up, which would be beneficial to some people. Also, when the 6800 SLIs are more accessible you could sell your 6600s at a decent price and upgrade.

 

[Regs]

Insomniak, I disagree. You are not getting tomorrows performance today. Not unless you are on the inside scoop and know what ATi and Nvidia come out with. And what do you mean by today? Today as in Nvidia might release a driver or profile for the game you happen to play SLI in a blink of an eye? What if SLI does not work on a few games that you like to play? Will the developers spend more money and time debugging it for 1% of the market?

You will always be paying twice as much. The 6800's have been out for a year and the prices are still at 400 dollars and up. What's this talk about 100 dollars? The 9800 Pro are not even 100 dollars. When they drop, the new video cards will be out. Then everyone will just buy one single new generation video card that will either match or out perform two 6800GT in SLI. It's the nature of the beast. Then what are you going to do? Buy two more next generation video cards for SLI? By that time dual core CPU motherboards will be out. Hell, even Nvidia is starting to show there new chipsets for the future. You are not saving anything going SLI. It will never be for people with a budget in mind.

You're even worse off. You have one 6600GT with a 200 dollar motherboard. Do you feel the least bit disappointed that people still on AGP are out performing you? Knowing that even when you spend the extra 200 dollars on for another 6600GT on top of everything else, people on 939 AGP's will still be out performing you most of the time?

To tell you the truth, even If I was stinking rich I wouldn't waste my money on SLI. It's going to cause more trouble than it's worth. Nothing more than a bad investment.

 

[imported_Mitchell]

2 6600's are slightly faster then 1 6800. 2 6800GT's are slightly faster then one Ultra.

I dunno the logic in getting two 6600's. I'd just get one 6800.

Or an Ultra.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Oh, I dunno, related information for people who may be deciding between the two options? Would you like some cheese?

I'd rather have relevant posts, than cheese, thanks.

 

[neoreturns]

The 6600GT PCI-E is pretty mind bogglingly cheap for how damn fast it is. Its pretty unfortunate that the 6800GT PCI-E cards are still so expensive, I'm guessing this might be why. Also for bragging rights, and some people might just want to mess around with it to see what its like.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
A few weeks is forever in the computer world, and it's been more like a couple months, anyway. It's still hard to find PCI-E 6800GT's.

Well I just linked to several sites selling 6800GTs for under $450. They have been avalible for weeks steadly going down from 500. Where have you been?

If I had just shelled out for a nice new SLI board, the temptation to see if it actually worked would be strong.

Overall, I see your point aeternitas, and this is far from the first time it has been raised.

I think that if you buy one 6800GT now, and then wait 6 months to buy another one, you will be disappointed anyway because there will be a faster single card out (or about to come out).

Personally, I think SLI only makes sense if you can buy two 6800GT's or Ultras now and enjoy the benefits of them before the cards are eclipsed.

A single card in 6 - 12 months will not only be more expencive than a 6800GT by then, but if it even preforms better at all, it will be by a very small margin that wont be woth the $100+ differance.

Originally posted by: necine
I think you can run 2 monitors on the 6600 SLI set up, which would be beneficial to some people. Also, when the 6800 SLIs are more accessible you could sell your 6600s at a decent price and upgrade.

True, but you can also do that with a dual output single card for a lot less than $370. Thus one would get a Ultra board. The 6800GTs have been accessible for at least two weeks now. ive been watching them. I dont know where some of you have been looking. lol

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Mitchell
2 6600's are slightly faster then 1 6800. 2 6800GT's are slightly faster then one Ultra.

I dunno the logic in getting two 6600's. I'd just get one 6800.

Or an Ultra.

2 6600GTs are much slower than one 6800GT. Why? Becuase people do not buy SLi to run at restricted quality settings.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: neoreturns
The 6600GT PCI-E is pretty mind bogglingly cheap for how damn fast it is. Its pretty unfortunate that the 6800GT PCI-E cards are still so expensive, I'm guessing this might be why. Also for bragging rights, and some people might just want to mess around with it to see what its like.

Its ~$370 for two 6600GTs. Its ~$430 for one 6800GT. The 6800GT will kill the dual 6600GTs. An sli board is usually $50 more than an ultra. Therefore in effect you are spending ~$10 for much better preformance in games going ultra with a single 6800GT over sli with dual 6600GTs.

I dont know about most people, but if its bragging rights to get dual 6600GTs, then I need smarter friends.

 

[AVP]

Ok I am a noob but I was wondering if driver updates and such in the future could ever improve the performance of SLI, and make having two 6600gts better than a 6800gt?

 

[SunSamurai]

It's a simple lack of processing power in the 6600GTs. Two 6600GTs will NEVER be able to double a single 6600GT in preformance. There is too much going on. The differance btween 2x6600 and 6800 is too large, and gets bigger as you add on more detail. So unless you like playing at 1024x768 with no aa etc on (and why would you if youre spending 400 for video?) then 6800gt is best and will continue to be till the next batch of cards.

 

[Chadder007]

What I would do now is ....buy an SLI capable motherboard and just get ONE Nvidia 6800GT for now and maybe a year later get the other to put it in SLI mode when games get a bit more graphically intense.

 

[CraigRT]

two 6600GT's is cool, SLi is cool itself, but it is really bad value for 2 6600GT's

I'd get an X800XT or something before that.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Regs
Insomniak, I disagree. You are not getting tomorrows performance today. Not unless you are on the inside scoop and know what ATi and Nvidia come out with. And what do you mean by today? Today as in Nvidia might release a driver or profile for the game you happen to play SLI in a blink of an eye? What if SLI does not work on a few games that you like to play? Will the developers spend more money and time debugging it for 1% of the market?

I'm speaking theoretically of course. No one can tell the future.

Why wait for Nvidia to release a driver profile? Just create one yourself.

Originally posted by: Regs
You will always be paying twice as much. The 6800's have been out for a year and the prices are still at 400 dollars and up. What's this talk about 100 dollars?

For a 6600GT a year from now, I don't think 100-150 is outside possibility. It may be more, it may be less. Time will tell. Either way, using the upgrade method 2x6600GT comes out cheaper than 1x6800GT.

Originally posted by: Regs
Then everyone will just buy one single new generation video card that will either match or out perform two 6800GT in SLI. It's the nature of the beast. Then what are you going to do? Buy two more next generation video cards for SLI? By that time dual core CPU motherboards will be out. Hell, even Nvidia is starting to show there new chipsets for the future. You are not saving anything going SLI. It will never be for people with a budget in mind.

Which is cheaper?

Buying 1x6800GT now ($400, assuming they reach MSRP at some point) and adding another later for less (say, $300...raw estimate) or buying one now ($400) and replacing it with the faster equivalent down the line ($400 again). Seems to me one would come off theoretically cheaper, and if performance is in the 90% range (which it sometimes is, sometimes isn't - whether or not that's CPU bottlenecking had yet to be determined) then you've come out ahead, frames for dollars. But yet again, time will tell.

Originally posted by: Regs
You're even worse off. You have one 6600GT with a 200 dollar motherboard. Do you feel the least bit disappointed that people still on AGP are out performing you?

No. My dick size is not related to my PC.

Originally posted by: Regs
Knowing that even when you spend the extra 200 dollars on for another 6600GT on top of everything else, people on 939 AGP's will still be out performing you most of the time?
[q/]

I don't plan to SLI 6600GTs. This is pointless blathering and assumption on your part.

Originally posted by: Regs
To tell you the truth, even If I was stinking rich I wouldn't waste my money on SLI. It's going to cause more trouble than it's worth. Nothing more than a bad investment.

Time.

Will.

Tell.



EDIT: Hell, even Anandtech recognizes the benefit of SLI as an upgrade option:

From:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2284&p=18


If NVIDIA is able to get their SLI certification program successful enough and if motherboard manufacturers are able to get SLI boards cheap enough, then the upgrade value of SLI is significant. We?ve already seen that going from a single $200 GeForce 6600GT to a pair of them offers performance greater than that of a single $400 GeForce 6800GT. Take into account that the price of these cards goes down over time and you?re looking at a pretty decent upgrade path for the future, requiring minimal investment today.

The upgrade path for 6800GT owners is even more enticing; if you?ve only got $400 to spend on a card today you can?t beat the 6800GT as a single card solution. Then, as the price of the 6800GT drops, it may become more attractive for you to upgrade to a second card rather than buying a next generation GPU. As long as we?re between DirectX cycles, SLI enables you to have the fastest most robust graphics setup out there without missing out on much.



SLI makes sense as an upgrade option. In other forms, it's just for bragging rights.

 

[neoreturns]

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: neoreturns
The 6600GT PCI-E is pretty mind bogglingly cheap for how damn fast it is. Its pretty unfortunate that the 6800GT PCI-E cards are still so expensive, I'm guessing this might be why. Also for bragging rights, and some people might just want to mess around with it to see what its like.

Its ~$370 for two 6600GTs. Its ~$430 for one 6800GT. The 6800GT will kill the dual 6600GTs. An sli board is usually $50 more than an ultra. Therefore in effect you are spending ~$10 for much better preformance in games going ultra with a single 6800GT over sli with dual 6600GTs.

I dont know about most people, but if its bragging rights to get dual 6600GTs, then I need smarter friends.

More like around $340 for 2 6600GTs

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
I would really like to see a LOGICAL arguement for getting two 6600GTs for an SLi setup as opposed to one 6800GT. Half the setups I come accross people are getting 6600GTs for their SLi rig. Am I f-ing missing something? Did I not read between the benchmarks or something? Do you get a free blowjob from a hot nVidia milf if you buy 6600gts?

I dont get it. Fill me in.

two 6600s are cheaper than one 6800 right now.

NV45 is going for way way over MSRP because of short supply, $650+ is not uncommon for a 6800GT PCI-E.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: neoreturns

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: neoreturns
The 6600GT PCI-E is pretty mind bogglingly cheap for how damn fast it is. Its pretty unfortunate that the 6800GT PCI-E cards are still so expensive, I'm guessing this might be why. Also for bragging rights, and some people might just want to mess around with it to see what its like.

Its ~$370 for two 6600GTs. Its ~$430 for one 6800GT. The 6800GT will kill the dual 6600GTs. An sli board is usually $50 more than an ultra. Therefore in effect you are spending ~$10 for much better preformance in games going ultra with a single 6800GT over sli with dual 6600GTs.

I dont know about most people, but if its bragging rights to get dual 6600GTs, then I need smarter friends.

More like around $340 for 2 6600GTs

I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

SLI 6600GTs still doesn't make sense from a cost standpoint though, as a pair of them will probably run you just as much as a single 6800GT. But getting killed by the 6800GT? I don't think ~10% or less counts as a "killing".

 

[Matthias99]

I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

As long as "most of the time" doesn't include "times that you have AA/AF enabled".

THG benches

In some games it's close, but in most games, you're looking at a ~20-30% performance loss with 4xAA/8xAF, at least at 1600x1200 (at 1024x768 with AA/AF it's only ~10% slower, and they didn't test 1280x1024).

 

[Kniteman77]

Same reason I bought a Dual Xeon machine . . . .

"Mine's bigger than Yours"

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

As long as "most of the time" doesn't include "times that you have AA/AF enabled".

THG benches

In some games it's close, but in most games, you're looking at a ~20-30% performance loss with 4xAA/8xAF, at least at 1600x1200 (at 1024x768 with AA/AF it's only ~10% slower, and they didn't test 1280x1024).

128 bit memory. 6600GT, IMO, is not a future-ready card because of that.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Matthias99

I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

As long as "most of the time" doesn't include "times that you have AA/AF enabled".

THG benches

In some games it's close, but in most games, you're looking at a ~20-30% performance loss with 4xAA/8xAF, at least at 1600x1200 (at 1024x768 with AA/AF it's only ~10% slower, and they didn't test 1280x1024).

128 bit memory. 6600GT, IMO, is not a future-ready card because of that.

So, would you concur that this result is basically the 6600GT getting "killed", at least with AA/AF and at higher than 1024x768 resolution?

 

[Zebo]

$360 vs $470, price/performance dual 66's wins. How do you shop?

Edited for pricewatch pricing

edit 2
looks like Insomniak's on top of things... read his

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Matthias99

I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

As long as "most of the time" doesn't include "times that you have AA/AF enabled".

THG benches

In some games it's close, but in most games, you're looking at a ~20-30% performance loss with 4xAA/8xAF, at least at 1600x1200 (at 1024x768 with AA/AF it's only ~10% slower, and they didn't test 1280x1024).

128 bit memory. 6600GT, IMO, is not a future-ready card because of that.

So, would you concur that this result is basically the 6600GT getting "killed", at least with AA/AF and at higher than 1024x768 resolution?

Nah, couldn't do that for you, mainly becase the benchies are inconclusive. Anand's benchmarks don't show any discrepancy like that. There are a couple instances, where the gap is that wide, but most of the time you have again, ~10-15% (give or take a few % either way).

Examples:

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5526.png ~11% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5527.png ~10% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5528.png ~11% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5530.png ~6% more

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5531.png ~11% less



All at 1600x1200 4x/8x.

So no, can't really agree with you until the benchmarks can agree with each other. Frankly, I'm more inclined to take Anand over Toms - Toms has been on a steady downhill roll over the past couple years IMO.

What's more, I'm betting that 10-15% is overhead processing to make two seperate cards work together. Let's face it - a 6600GT is exactly half a 6800GT, 2 of them giving 1.9 the performance is not surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if, through further refinements of the technology, Nvidia was able to reduce that overhead over time, bringing us even closer to a true "double up".

 

[magomago]

I don't think 2 6600GTs at ONCE makes sense...better to go 6800

But if you go one 6600Gt, and 1-2 eyars laeter want a boost, then its not 1/2 bad at all

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
So no, can't really agree with you until the benchmarks can agree with each other. Frankly, I'm more inclined to take Anand over Toms - Toms has been on a steady downhill roll over the past couple years IMO.

I'd have to say that AT has been really disappointing as of late with video card reviews (whereas THG has been pretty good), but fair enough. I can try to turn up more benchmarks.

What's more, I'm betting that 10-15% is overhead processing to make two seperate cards work together. Let's face it - a 6600GT is exactly half a 6800GT, 2 of them giving 1.9 the performance is not surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if, through further refinements of the technology, Nvidia was able to reduce that overhead over time, bringing us even closer to a true "double up".

The 6600GT is not "exactly half" of a 6800GT -- it actually has *more* than half the pixel shader power, though it has exactly half of the available bandwidth (it's 8 pipes, 128-bit at 500/1000, as opposed to 16 pipes, 256-bit at 350/1000, or sometimes 350/1100 depending on manufacturer). So a 6600GT SLI, when not bandwidth- or CPU-starved, should blow away a 6800GT (it can push, in theory, 8000MPixels/sec., as opposed to "only" 5600MPixels/sec. for the 6800GT). So it's losing, apparently, a lot more than "10-15%" in overhead, or else is getting pretty badly bandwidth-starved all the time.

Techreport did similar benches; they also found a gap of between 10 and 20-30% between the 6600GT SLI and 6800GT at high resolutions with AA/AF (it varied by game, and sometimes considerably on the *same* game just with different benches).

Their conclusion:

That said, the value proposition for dual GeForce 6600 GT cards isn't as stellar as it could be. SLI doesn't offer 2X the performance with dual cards, and in some cases, it may not provide any performance advantage at all. More importantly, the 6600 GTs in SLI often run into trouble at higher resolutions with lots of antialiasing and texture filtering enabled?precisely the kinds of scenarios where SLI should shine. They are, quite likely, bumping up against the effective 128MB video RAM limit. 128MB of video RAM isn't much for a high-end graphics solution these days, and that dynamic is only going to get worse as new games with larger textures arrive. Because of this limitation, I'd rather have a single GeForce 6800 GT card with 256MB of RAM than a pair of GeForce 6600 GTs.