Why people, why?

[Regs]

Insomniak, Anand agrees that a 40%-70% performance increase is well worth the upgrade. But he also clearly states only if you have the budget for it. Let's not blow it out of context. When I see someone getting a SLI board with only one 6600GT, I see someone who clearly does not have the budget for it!

I just hate to see people here asking how to save money or get the best bang for their buck and they start out their hardware list with a SLI motherboard with only one video card. It doesn't make any sense to me. The people who do have SLI motherboards with two 6800GT's or Ultra's, as you will see, won't even ask before hand. They will just post their systems to gloat.

I guess it comes down to - If you have to ask, don't get it. Would you ask qeustions about something that will clearly offer 40-70% more performance before you purchase if you could afford it? I know I wouldnt.

Edit: And getting two 6600GT's will not get you 40%-70% more performance over a 6800GT or 6800Ultra.

 

[AVP]

Um this maybe inconsequential but it is worth noting...I recently purchased a new computer (my family was too afraid to let me build it *grins) Anyways, I remember seeing in a few places new Nforce 4 Sli systems that required the purchase of two videocards....I could easily see a few uninformed people purchasing two 6600gts in one of these setups.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
The 6600GT is not "exactly half" of a 6800GT -- it actually has *more* than half the pixel shader power, though it has exactly half of the available bandwidth (it's 8 pipes, 128-bit at 500/1000, as opposed to 16 pipes, 256-bit at 350/1000, or sometimes 350/1100 depending on manufacturer). So a 6600GT SLI, when not bandwidth- or CPU-starved, should blow away a 6800GT (it can push, in theory, 8000MPixels/sec., as opposed to "only" 5600MPixels/sec. for the 6800GT). So it's losing, apparently, a lot more than "10-15%" in overhead, or else is getting pretty badly bandwidth-starved all the time.

I'm not going to bother getting into theoretical performance - in the real world, there is performance disparity. All other things being equal, the connection between two cards has to be resulting in some kind(s) of latency. This is what I could foresee NV improving.

As for benchmark differences: Maybe system configuration has something to do with it? Who knows. I haven't investigated enough to be able to tell you.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Regs
Insomniak, Anand agrees that a 40%-70% performance increase is well worth the upgrade. But he also clearly states only if you have the budget for it. Let's not blow it out of context. When I see someone getting a SLI board with only one 6600GT, I see someone who clearly does not have the budget for it!

I just hate to see people here asking how to save money or get the best bang for their buck and they start out their hardware list with a SLI motherboard with only one video card. It doesn't make any sense to me. The people who do have SLI motherboards with two 6800GT's or Ultra's, as you will see, won't even ask before hand. They will just post their systems to gloat.

I guess it comes down to - If you have to ask, don't get it. Would you ask qeustions about something that will clearly offer 40-70% more performance before you purchase if you could afford it? I know I wouldnt.

I fully agree, which is why I've been saying (this whole time) that 6600GTs in SLI from the start does not make sense. In fact, I think SLI from the start makes very little sense at all.

I see SLI as a way of improving bang-for-buck on your upgrade path - if you know what you're doing. I agree that noobs and ignorants shouldn't be going SLI, but since when should that demographic be mucking around with bleeding edge tech in the first place?

I got an SLI board with a 6600GT because I didn't want to spend $400 on a 6800GT that will probably be beat to death within a few months when R520/NV50 launch. If I'm going to pick up a top end card, it will be at the beginning of its lifecycle, not at the end. The 6600GT is a placeholder. Would YOU spend more than $200 on a card you planned to keep for less than 12 months, possibly as few as 6?

At the same time I built my rig, I also built one for my housemate. He gave me a $750 budget. Know what I put him on? An AMD 64 system, Nforce 3 Ultra based. He's running an AGP 6600GT, among other things. You're right - he's not the type that should be looking at SLI, so I didn't even consider it for him. For me, that's a different story. I don't think you can hold a motherboard or a technology option offered by a company at fault if stupid people buy their product and don't need it. They should've done like he did - gotten some assistance from someone who knows their head from their shipping department.

If I decide not to do SLI, what's the harm? I paid a $70 or so premium to get on the AMD/PCIe bandwagon early. Oh well. That's not nearly as stupid as paying $850 for an FX-55 when a 3500+ offers ~70% of the performance for ~30% of the price.

For some reason, people love to hate on SLI motherboards right now. Putting aside SLI, the ones that have come out so far seem to be excellent PCIe boards in their own right. It's not like people are buying a bad product.

 

[drpootums]

If the mobo's were the same price, a thought would be to get one now if ur on a strict budget, and get another one later down the line. But as the boards are priced if your on a strict budget u shouldnt even be thinking about a SLI setup...

 

[Insomniak]

Agreed....

 

[randreas]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
I would really like to see a LOGICAL arguement for getting two 6600GTs for an SLi setup as opposed to one 6800GT. Half the setups I come accross people are getting 6600GTs for their SLi rig. Am I f-ing missing something? Did I not read between the benchmarks or something? Do you get a free blowjob from a hot nVidia milf if you buy 6600gts?

I dont get it. Fill me in.

PureVideo in HTPC systems.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Chadder007
What I would do now is ....buy an SLI capable motherboard and just get ONE Nvidia 6800GT for now and maybe a year later get the other to put it in SLI mode when games get a bit more graphically intense.

See, now I think that is very reasonable use of these boards.

Originally posted by: neoreturns
More like around $340 for 2 6600GTs

For two crappy ones maybe. Not to mention the extra elextical cost of running two cards in one board. The heat, the added instability etc etc

Originally posted by: Insomniak
I don't get this idea people have that a 6600GT SLI setup gets "killed" by a single 6800GT. In the benches I've seen the 6600GT SLI is usually 10% or less behind the single 6800GT most of the time.

SLI 6600GTs still doesn't make sense from a cost standpoint though, as a pair of them will probably run you just as much as a single 6800GT. But getting killed by the 6800GT? I don't think ~10% or less counts as a "killing".

Its more like %10 to %20 but whos counting.

Originally posted by: Acanthus
two 6600s are cheaper than one 6800 right now.

NV45 is going for way way over MSRP because of short supply, $650+ is not uncommon for a 6800GT PCI-E.

For the second time.
I linked to several places selling the 6800GT for under 450. I dont care if people are selling it for 650, just like I wouldent care if someone was selling a 6600gt for 300. Im not looking at the overprices stores, and Im not sure why you are either.

"unless you like playing at 1024x768 with no aa etc on (and why would you if youre spending 400 for video?) then 6800gt is best and will continue to be till the next batch of cards."

Tell me, would someone buy sli to play at shite quality levels?

Originally posted by: Zebo
$360 vs $470, price/performance dual 66's wins. How do you shop?

Edited for pricewatch pricing

edit 2
looks like Insomniak's on top of things... read his

Alright, first off pricewatch.com < pricegrabber.com
6800GT 256 PCIe SHIPPED $425
Where are you getting $470?
2x 6600GT 128 PCIe SHIPPED (no tax = $5 shipping applied once) $370

Thats, like I already stated in this thread, about a $50 differance. $50 is about the differance between a SLi and a Ultra board. Buying a Ultra + 6800GT will cost you at maybe $10 - 30 more if you shop around. That means, for every ~dollar spent, you get a ~%1 improvement in gameplay framerate. Therefore, 2x6600GT is a bad decision that pretends to look like a better price/preformance ratio.

Originally posted by: drpootums
If the mobo's were the same price, a thought would be to get one now if ur on a strict budget, and get another one later down the line. But as the boards are priced if your on a strict budget u shouldnt even be thinking about a SLI setup...

Exactly

Originally posted by: randreas
PureVideo in HTPC systems.

Youre sure 6800GT doesnt have purevideo eh.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Have you looked at the price of 6800 PCIe cards?

- M4H

6800GT not 6800. Also, yes I have, slightly more than two 6600GTs. Are you not seeing this, or have you not looked at the benchmarks?

Or perhaps im still missing some 'promotion' from nvidia?

Point me to a site where I can buy a single 6800GT PCIe - or even a 6800 - that's in-stock for MSRP, please.

- M4H

Newegg for $445 In stock...here

 

[Insomniak]

1) That's not MSRP.

2) It's XFX, so it doesn't really count.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
Its more like %10 to %20 but whos counting.

Not what I heard:

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Nah, couldn't do that for you, mainly becase the benchies are inconclusive. Anand's benchmarks don't show any discrepancy like that. There are a couple instances, where the gap is that wide, but most of the time you have again, ~10-15% (give or take a few % either way).

Examples:

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5526.png ~11% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5527.png ~10% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5528.png ~11% less

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5530.png ~6% more

http://images.anandtech.com/gr..._112304101104/5531.png ~11% less



All at 1600x1200 4x/8x.

So no, can't really agree with you until the benchmarks can agree with each other. Frankly, I'm more inclined to take Anand over Toms - Toms has been on a steady downhill roll over the past couple years IMO.

What's more, I'm betting that 10-15% is overhead processing to make two seperate cards work together. Let's face it - a 6600GT is exactly half a 6800GT, 2 of them giving 1.9 the performance is not surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if, through further refinements of the technology, Nvidia was able to reduce that overhead over time, bringing us even closer to a true "double up".

But then, hey, who needs empirical evidence.

And as we already discussed, this varies depending on who you talk to.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
1) That's not MSRP.

2) It's XFX, so it doesn't really count.

So what is msrp, and where do you see it posed for Nvidia ?

And why don't XFX cards count ?

Thats as stupid as the argument that a Winchester Athlon64 doesn;t coumt as an Athlon64 that I read in another thread.

 

[Rock Hydra]

No point in buying mid-ranged cards like 6600GTs in SLI, but high end cards are worht it for anyone who wants to get as much performance as possible. Enthusiasts probably don't care about logical, when their pockets are preactically bottomless, they just want the most performance they can buy.

 

[SunSamurai]

Insomniakm stop being an asshat. Its 10-20%. I dont give a ratsbehind if you heard it or not. Besides that you seem to be missing the point. I dont care what _you_ count. What is, is, so go be a troll elsewhere.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Insomniak
1) That's not MSRP.

2) It's XFX, so it doesn't really count.

So what is msrp, and where do you see it posed for Nvidia ?

And why don't XFX cards count ?

Thats as stupid as the argument that a Winchester Athlon64 doesn;t coumt as an Athlon64 that I read in another thread.

Umm winchester is an AMD core revision.

XFX is a POS OEM.

Not even close to related.

 

[BenSkywalker]

This is a bit of a loaded question it seems.

Partly it is retrospective- there are a lot of people who are running dual 6600GTs because the 6800GTs WERE $500 and up if you could find one. Is the performance advantage the 6800GT holds worth a near $140 premium? I would wager no.

Another element- why would anyone buy a X800XT, 6800U, 6800NU or X800Pro- none of them are reasonable buys when compared to the 6800GT either- why don't we see dozens of threads lamenting those people on their purchasing decissions? It seems it is quite popular to criticize those who picked up dual 6600GTs, but not people who spent too much money on any of the other parts this generation.

 

[TekDemon]

Cuz they spent $300 on an SLI board and feel like they should be able to use the SLI they paid a premium for, but don't have $900 for the 6800GT's.

That's my best guess heh.

 

[Samus]

doing SLI now is stupid, its purely a future-proof thing, assuming it catches on.

i got the asus sli board because a) its available b) its $30 more than the non-sli board and c) if sli is successful, i can get another 6600gt card in 6 months for $120 or so and get 50-60% better performance over my old single 6600gt configuration.

obviously a 6800 or 6800gt would be faster, but they will still be 250-300 dollars in 6 months. 6600gt will not, its 180 now.

the real kicker is, will sli performance IMPROVE in the future. obviously there is a lot of inefficiency and loss because theoretically 2 6600gt's should be 135% of the speed of the 6800 and on par with a 6800gt across the board, if not by a 5% edge.

but its like ddr. its not double the output of equally clocked sdr, either.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
Insomniakm stop being an asshat. Its 10-20%. I dont give a ratsbehind if you heard it or not. Besides that you seem to be missing the point. I dont care what _you_ count. What is, is, so go be a troll elsewhere.

So you're saying you know better than Anandtech? Man, you should start your own hardware site! Providing a counterpoint with full evidence from a reputable source is trolling? Wow. If you don't like "trolling", you should get out of this forum ASAP!

:roll:

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Samus
doing SLI now is stupid, its purely a future-proof thing, assuming it catches on.

i got the asus sli board because a) its available b) its $30 more than the non-sli board and c) if sli is successful, i can get another 6600gt card in 6 months for $120 or so and get 50-60% better performance over my old single 6600gt configuration.

obviously a 6800 or 6800gt would be faster, but they will still be 250-300 dollars in 6 months. 6600gt will not, its 180 now.

the real kicker is, will sli performance IMPROVE in the future. obviously there is a lot of inefficiency and loss because theoretically 2 6600gt's should be 135% of the speed of the 6800 and on par with a 6800gt across the board, if not by a 5% edge.

but its like ddr. its not double the output of equally clocked sdr, either.

That is the real kicker - is SLI really as CPU limited as Nvidia says? And will they refine it down the line through driver updates and possibly hardware revisions?

I'm with you - I wanted the upgrade option just in case, and it's not like the extra cost is anything to worry about.

 

[Chosonman]

Insomniak you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can't even wrote a coherent sentence.
Admit it you made a mistake and move on. No need to linger around trying to defend your flawed decision to build that system.

 

[kd2777]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Insomniak you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can't even wrote a coherent sentence.
Admit it you made a mistake and move on. No need to linger around trying to defend your flawed decision to build that system.

"You can't even wrote a coherent sentence" ...... Nice, maybe you should turn in your Grammar Police badge.

kd

 

[randreas]

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: randreas
PureVideo in HTPC systems.

Youre sure 6800GT doesnt have purevideo eh.

Unless this article is wrong yeah...

PureVideo is exclusively available on the GeForce 6 series of GPUs and only the latest GeForce 6 GPUs have a fully functional PureVideo core. The original NV40 and NV45 (GeForce 6800GT/Ultra) do not have functional Windows Media Video 9 decode acceleration, but the rest of the GeForce 6 series are feature complete (GeForce 6800/6600GT/6600/6200).

Don't know if its worth it to most HTPCers though. If you game on your HTPC it might make sense if you want full PureVideo support.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Insomniak you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can't even wrote a coherent sentence.
Admit it you made a mistake and move on. No need to linger around trying to defend your flawed decision to build that system.

I'm providing evidence from known hardware sites such as..ahem...ANANDTECH....to back up my claims. You're devolving to insults and gibberish. I'm going to stop replying to you now - I'm worried whatever's rotting your brain could be contagious

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Insomniak you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can't even wrote a coherent sentence.
Admit it you made a mistake and move on. No need to linger around trying to defend your flawed decision to build that system.

I'm providing evidence from known hardware sites such as..ahem...ANANDTECH....to back up my claims. You're devolving to insults and gibberish. I'm going to stop replying to you now - I'm worried whatever's rotting your brain could be contagious

If you're talking about how the Anandtech review touted the upgradablility of SLI consider this. Contrary to what you may believe (and what your parents told you). Not everything writen in online product reviews are fact and not opinion. Personally I think the writer sounded overly enthusiastic about a new product he had probably never experienced before and overspeculated as to the possibile ramifications of it.

And you're doing the right thing Insomniak. "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."