why psychiatry is authoritarian bs

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Mixolydian

Lifer
Nov 7, 2011
14,570
91
86
gilramirez.net
not really, i would just ask my parents or a neurologist what drugs they thought were best and if i were dead, then id be dead from being stupid, not mental illness.

and i dont really value my life that much anyway no matter how much you might think you know what's best for me. sorry.

my thoughts are largely "psychotic" to you because you disagree with them. they are indeed not very coherent, but i really think that you're just reading things you disagree with and then calling them psychotic.
Incoherent is a better word than psychotic. And you missed my point entirely.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,408
39
91
Sorry to hear about your frustrations with your thoughts and with medication. I hope you get things figured out OP.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,421
293
126
what i am saying is that psychiatry cant really save or improve lives by diagnosing people unlike diagnosing, for example, heart patients. it hasn't improved my life... ive been pretty unhappy for a very long time and if i took more abilify then i would be sleeping more. 10 hours per every 24 is too much already.
I'm sorry to hear that science is limited in what it can do for broken brains at this time, but honestly, I think you're going too far just because medicine still has lots of limitations, particularly in neuroscience (and neuropsychiatry), or because for many conditions the drugs are crap, or because it sounds like you are getting the standard of care that exists in our grossly inadequate mental health system where only those with money or exceptional health insurance can afford more expert care and treatment programs.

The husband of a person I went to school with just died of ALS at 39. He was 33 when he went to the doctor for some weakness in his hand grip/strength. At best, doctors were able to extend his life by another year, somewhat slow-down some progression, and give some drugs to make him more comfortable (he refused a feeding tube and trach). So should we say that the field of neurology doesn't help anyone or is only interested in making money, being shills for the pharmaceutical industry?

The reason I mentioned narcolepsy is because, I has it. It's pretty much ruined my life. Contrary to some briefs on narcolepsy created for public consumption, which seem to paint a more optimistic picture of prognosis by claiming narcolepsy can be "effectively managed with treatment", the footnote/caveat to that statement is that even with treatment, the symptoms are rarely fully or well controlled and it's a lifelong condition. Any hope of effective treatment is dependent upon being able to tolerate the shit drugs, which are pretty much limited to CNS stimulants and antidepressants. These have side-effects for many people, which either limits the dose they can tolerate or perhaps even prevents them from taking any at all.

I can't take the stimulants on a regular basis, nor even at the dose that would be needed for most affect, because of the side-effects. On top of that, I've developed this gnarly case of chronic depression that doesn't respond to antidepressants, either. So that's it. End-of-the-line to what medicine can do for me at present time and foreseeable future. I don't blame doctors or drug companies. It is what it is.

Even all those 'heart patients' who today can be helped were in the same boat before effective treatments, intervention, technology came along. I just have to be philosophical about it and get on with the messy business of living, trying to liberate my mind and perspective in ways that will make my options and situation seem not so limited or lacking. e.g. I've had to look for other measures of worth and value that are not tied to one's income or assets, or professional achievement, because I'm on SS disability and (realistically) probably will be for the rest of my life.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
what i am saying is that psychiatry cant really save or improve lives by diagnosing people unlike diagnosing, for example, heart patients. it hasn't improved my life... ive been pretty unhappy for a very long time and if i took more abilify then i would be sleeping more. 10 hours per every 24 is too much already.
thank you

no it doesnt mean that one doesnt have it, but psychiatrists have a tendency to discover and seek out mental illnesses to diagnose all at a very fast rate so they can make money off people. no one should have to pay to get permission to use drugs as long as no aggression is taking place.

thank you

While you have a very scattered thought pattern, some things you say are rather logical and, if the world follows, could have rather important effects that benefit civilization greatly.
Oddly enough, in many ways, some peaks of civilization actually happened when some of those same principals were quite prized.
In some ways, there were very negative (compared to today) aspects to the ancient Greek and Roman cultures (gender inequality, freedom/slaves/distinct social classes with death/torture/etc the likely outcome of crossing those lines, same for speaking out, and a ton of other issues)... but there were just as many ways that they could almost be said to have been ahead of where "western" society is today.


I digress, however.


You, at one point, acknowledge that there are physiological/neurological reasons (lobe activity) for psychiatric treatment, and in the same breath profess your disbelief in -- and disdain for -- the entire concept for psychiatric medicine.

Your observation that dosage is such a major variable in the successful management of mental disorders is not lost on those who work in that field. Modern, and safe, medicine is such a brand new world for the majority of the mental health concerns.
The brain is the least understood, but likely the most documented, part of the animal body. We, as humans, KNOW that certain chemicals cause certain actions, sometimes favorable, sometimes not, based upon major neurological/physiological variables.

They are learning that a whole sweeping mass of possibilities can produce an almost identical outcome.
We are also learning just how much lifestyle alone can shape these outcomes, and just how resilient the brain/CNS can be if lifestyle is changed.

Oh, you were severely lacking in Omega 3 ALA, DHA, or EPA for the better part of your life, especially during childhood, even more so during your time in the womb? Well shit, you've got the cards stacked against you to have a host of complications that could manifest as depressive disorders, attention disorders, possibly even manic or schizoaffective (the latter two I cannot guarantee have ever been linked to fatty acid intake amount and ratios, or even diet in general.. cannot recall if I read that or just imagined it).

The brain is a marvelous specimen of the natural world, but genetic coding and the physiological processes that lead to growth and development are imperfect and certainly capable of causing life-ending "errors" at just about any point in time.

Just think of "simple things" like epileptic seizures or behavioral changes after suffering a brain injury. While quite different (and no, I'm not going to link them), they are just two examples of how the brain can produce such awe-inspiring effects. The former is still not really understood (to my knowledge) and can be something that a body randomly decides sounds like a fun time, let's convulse and writhe and spasm just for the hell of it! It may happen to a person once in their lifetime, most it never happens to, some experience it at least once a day. Some only get to know it when lights and sounds are extreme, some need no spark to randomly fall and violently tremble. The latter, however, is one of the best documented and still only partially understood results of purposefully or accidentally causing permanent damage to different parts of the brain.

Psychiatry is an evolving discipline, that relies heavily upon findings from neurosurgeons, neurologists, psychologists, and other physiological sciences, even chemists and biochemists.
It hasn't been too long since they routinely cut the connection between the two hemispheres of the brain. It wasn't that long ago that they actually cut part of the frontal lobe out. It wasn't that long ago that even lying a few times found you in the psych ward enjoying the wonderful smell of cooked flesh and the joyful feeling of convulsing and writhing with fully contracted skeletal muscles as they sent electrons screaming between two electrodes stationed on either side of your skull.
They've become much more mild these days, in comparison.


Yes, like any medical profession, the psychiatric world has their hacks and their villainous scum that only want your money and can't be bothered to spend even their entire allotted block of time with you because they'd rather be doing anything else but work with you.
But there are also the ones who refuse to even medicate their patients, except for the more severe cases. There are ones who actually care and only want the money in so much as they'd like to live comfortable and actually eat/send their kids to school... but they don't try and nickel and dime you and don't try to send you home with something that won't likely help you or may even hurt you down the road.

Just like doctors. Some do more harm than good, some would rather kill themselves than wrong someone.

Key: if any doctor (any field) seems to be impatient/short with you, or hardly pays attention, get a new doctor.


There are a host of possible treatments for any given mental diagnosis. There is no guaranteed right answer.

The worst crime in this field is that it's still so damn difficult and extremely expensive(read: holy shit how many zeros?) just to get an actual PHYSIOLOGICAL diagnosis. Mental disorders CAN be seen through biological evidence. It is possible to do complex brain scans and compile neurotransmitter profiles (amounts, release and uptake numbers, ratios of each compared to the others, etc).
There STILL wouldn't be a guaranteed right answer for corrective treatment, or even symptom management; and there would STILL not be a guarantee that the diagnosis was right.

Successful treatment of mental health disorders also requires the patient (or caretaker) to be extremely proactive in maintaining a two-way conversation. Dosage and specific chemical can change based upon the testimony of patient, guardian, caretaker, spouse, etc. A good doctor would take the evidence and consider what could be done to alter the outcome. Almost every diagnosed disorder has a selection of possible prescriptions, and from there, a wide range of possible dosages. The same exact behavior in two different people can require two totally different dosages, and, quite often, different chemicals altogether. Maybe it's a different chemical that attempts to create the same outcome (SSRIs all aim to do the same thing, patients can react differently to different ones), maybe it's aiming to do something completely different.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
While you have a very scattered thought pattern, some things you say are rather logical and, if the world follows, could have rather important effects that benefit civilization greatly. Oddly enough, in many ways, some peaks of civilization actually happened when some of those same principals were quite prized. In some ways, there were very negative (compared to today) aspects to the ancient Greek and Roman cultures (gender inequality, freedom/slaves/distinct social classes with death/torture/etc the likely outcome of crossing those lines, same for speaking out, and a ton of other issues)... but there were just as many ways that they could almost be said to have been ahead of where "western" society is today. I digress, however.
even though i think you're just trying to get s*** stains on your nose... thank you
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
even though i think you're just trying to get s*** stains on your nose... thank you

If you want to view it in that light, very well.
I do have strong views in favor of a free republican society (republican as in republic, as in form of government. republicans are fucking nuts at this point in time, and democrats are just wasteful fucks hell bent on giving us more to keep us addicted).

Sadly, what I'd love to see and what I know to be possible do not exist in the same plane of reality.

I long to try and make life better for the next generation, especially try and get something long-term that sets up future generations for success... but in the same breathe/thought, I'll easily believe and accept the notion that our species is doomed because we can't do what's necessary.

We can be masters of our own destiny, physiologically, but most of the world shuns the concept because it would be tampering with god's creation.
In time, when we better understand the neurological and physiological processes that lead to mental health issues, that should be around the time we could physically shape the genome of our future generations. When we can create "designer babies" with full replacement-level genetic therapy, we'll be on track toward righting this ship.
Hell, I'll be happy to simply have the genetic cure for the various types of color deficiency (color blindness). That's really all I want from this world, really. Well, yeah there's a lot I want, but I'd be grateful for that.


That said, it still doesn't excuse your views toward psychiatric medicine. Then again, I'm happy to support your right to have an [wrong] opinion.
 
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