Originally posted by: palehorse74
Those actions also gave rise to the Northern Alliance - who, coincidentally, fought by our side in 2001 to decimate the Taliban and AQ's forces in Afghanistan. Go figure!Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: palehorse74
that is a complete fallacy.Originally posted by: DrPizza
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once upon a time, didn't we support OBL? Later, we just sort of abandoned support for him?
The truth is that NONE of our money, weapons, or training went to OBL while he was in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets.
We funneled each of those items through the Pakistani ISI, and they handed out as they saw fit to the various Muj leaders throughout Afghanistan. Fact is, OBL had plenty of his own money and additional money that he raised from donors throughout the Arab world.
Go read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll if you want to learn the truth of the matter...
How do you know the ISI didn't assist bin Laden? You don't, therefore your argument falls flat.
For the most part, the decision-makers in ISI during the 80's despised OBL and his collection of foreign Muj. Most first-hand testimony on the subject indicates that the ISI intentionally kept OBL from receiving any fund, training, etc from the US coffers. Like I said before, OBL had plenty of his own funding.
Trust me, this is one historical subject I know very well. You really should stick to hugging al Sadr and leave this one alone...
Even if OBL did not receive US training or money, plenty of other future terrorists did. Whether or not specific terrorist groups rose from our efforts in the Middle East, it's undeniable that our actions there during the Cold War directly gave rise to many of the armed radical groups in that area.
I even have a painting of Ahmad Shah Massoud on my wall that I commissioned - from a local - during my first tour in Afghanistan...
Speaking of walls, some say that the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan played a very large role in the collapse of the Soviet Union; and, ultimately, the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Crazy, eh?
So, my point? You take the good with the bad...
It's obviously not a black and white issue. Still, I think the lesson we need to learn is that bad people are still bad people, even if they happen to be on our side for the moment. Your comment about the Northern Alliance is a perfect example. How many times have our "friends", very similar to the Northern Alliance folks, turned on us when it suited their interests? If we're doing one thing right in Iraq, it's pushing for actual democracy instead of "friendly" lunatics who are just as bad as the people they are replacing. I think our approach to Afghanistan will turn around and bite us in the ass. Sure, the various warlords might be helpful NOW, but how about when helping the US is no longer in their best interests?