Why Today's Graphics Card Market Sucks

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
still, following your logic, as i'm sure g80 owners could simply turn down the settings/resolutions to make it quite playable, one could argue your same point for the next gen which you seem intent on purchasing.

the whole point in my reply to the original post pretty much sums that up - you can make that argument every generation. this one is no different.

I find myself turning down the settings on new games so my X1900GT can keep up too... difference between what I'm doing now and what you'll be doing with a G80 in 6 months to a year?

I paid 200 bucks for mine. What'd you pay for yours?

i paid $315 for mine after MIR (surprised i got it in 2 1/2 weeks) and a $15 off weekend special.

if when i have to start turning down settings, i'll have had the card close to a year, and while still serviceable, there certainly will be something better, but that's okay - that's happened every generation since glquake came out... which is why i don't understand the reasoning behind this year being any worse than any previous year. for reasons i gave earlier, in many cases it's better than most..

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: CaiNaM


an 8800GTS almost doubled the performance of the 7series and x1900.. for $400, so i hardly think that's a valid point.

And does anyone remember this one two pages ago?

i do, and i'll stand by that. sure, not across the board, but when is the last time you saw performance increases like that over the previous generation? r300 did that, and it's been quite a few years since then... and how long before r300 became "long in the tooth"? about a year for many, 2 years for those that would compromise a bit on their gfx settings.. once again, no different than the situation today with g80.

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: Matt2
Sorry OP, but your agrument is losing credibility by the second. I can't believe that you are trying to sit here and tell us that G80 is not worth $550.

I really don't think any graphics card is worth that. I'd never spend that much on one. Now we are seeing them pass 800 dollars, 900 dollars- when's it gonna stop? This price gouging didn't start with the 8800 series cards no, but it is certainly becoming out of control now.

i'd agree with you there.. but i thought the same of x800xtpe and 7800gt 512mb in previous years as well.... there's certainly a limit for me on value (price vs performance), but again, how is that any different from any other year?

 

[terentenet]

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: terentenet
You said something about FEAR at 57FPS average?

Nope- wasn't me. Never said it.

Sorry, my bad. It was cmdrdredd. Post edited. Anyway, we, the HD2900 & 88xx series victims got what we paid for. Shame on us for wanting better performance out of our rigs, with current games.... we're truly victims of evil marketing schemes from ATI/Nvidia.

Let's say that the next gen card from ATi/Nvidia will cost $600 (flagship, top of the line) and you want to sell your current card to get that.
You can take one of the 2 roads:
1. Sell the 1900GT now for $100, add $230, buy a 8800GTS 640. When next gen arrives, sell 8800GTS 640 for $225, add $375 and buy the flagship. Total investment: $230+$375=$605

2. Keep the 1900GT until next gen. Sell it then (when nobody wants it, most want DX10, Crysis knocking on the door) for $75, add $525 and buy next gen. Total, $525

Conclusion: It's your call. Keep turning that quality notch down for another 6 months and win $80
Or, you can pay the extra $80 and be a happy camper until next gen cards come out with REAL DX10 performance.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: terentenet

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: terentenet
You said something about FEAR at 57FPS average?

Nope- wasn't me. Never said it.

Sorry, my bad. It was cmdrdredd. Post edited. Anyway, we, the HD2900 & 88xx series victims got what we paid for. Shame on us for wanting better performance out of our rigs, with current games.... we're truly victims of evil marketing schemes from ATI/Nvidia.

Let's say that the next gen card from ATi/Nvidia will cost $600 (flagship, top of the line) and you want to sell your current card to get that.
You can take one of the 2 roads:
1. Sell the 1900GT now for $100, add $230, buy a 8800GTS 640. When next gen arrives, sell 8800GTS 640 for $225, add $375 and buy the flagship. Total investment: $230+$375=$605

2. Keep the 1900GT until next gen. Sell it then (when nobody wants it, most want DX10, Crysis knocking on the door) for $75, add $525 and buy next gen. Total, $525

Conclusion: It's your call. Keep turning that quality notch down for another 6 months and win $80
Or, you can pay the extra $80 and be a happy camper until next gen cards come out with REAL DX10 performance.

Stop trying to reason with him. He's obviously made up his mind and is ignoring the fact that his logic is flawed.

He keeps wanting to compare a 3rd tier card (8800GTS 320mb) with the flagship from last gen and wonders why the performance isnt doubled. A more suitable example would be to compare the 8800GTS 320mb with a 7900GS.

He's just trolling to start trouble, calling 8800 owners "victims", a statement that is laughable.

I think the real victim here is the OP who paid $200+ for a castrated underperforming card. That same $200 could have gotten him a X1950XT.

I love his statement that 8800 owners are victims because they'll have to turn down settings in six months, but he fails to mention that his card will be completely unplayable.

 

[Munky]

The 8800gts does not double the performance of the x1900xt. The 8800gtx maybe, but definitely not the gts, not even an overclocked one. If it did, you think I would still be using a x1900xt? I've been considering jumping on the 8800gts for quite some time now, but every time I come to the conclusion that it's not enough of a performance jump to make it a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[Keysplayr]

Well, I certainly feel victimized. I can't stand being able to play STALKER at 1680x1050 with nothing left in game options to turn on or up, and still catch an average of 50 to 60fps.
Boy, do I feel humbled.

 

[terentenet]

I stopped that after my 1st post. I know he made up his mind. The point is, it's better to sell current DX9 hardware and jump on the primitive DX10 wagon as these DX10 cards will maintain value EVEN when second gen DX10 arrives.
Here's how I judge:
Considering last 3 Nvidia/ATi flagships and current games.
Having 8800GTX or HD2900XT is GREAT
Having 7900GTX or X1900XTX is GOOD
Having 7800GTX or X800 not so good.

When next gen cards and games appear, things will be like:
Having 8900GTX (9800GTX???) or next gen ATi will be GREAT
Having 8800GTX or HD2900XT will be GOOD
Having 7900GTX or X1900XTX not so good
Having 7800GTX or anything below X1900XTX, unplayable.

So, if I was to have a DX9 card, I'd step up to a DX10 primitive and stupid, PR inflated card until next gen hit.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Well, I certainly feel victimized. I can't stand being able to play STALKER at 1680x1050 with nothing left in game options to turn on or up, and still catch an average of 50 to 60fps.
Boy, do I feel humbled.

Damn software people not adding in more stuff to turn on!

 

[terentenet]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Well, I certainly feel victimized. I can't stand being able to play STALKER at 1680x1050 with nothing left in game options to turn on or up, and still catch an average of 50 to 60fps.
Boy, do I feel humbled.

Yes, you should be ashamed of yourself! Buying all that PR bull**** Nvidia threw on us... oooh poor, poor marketing victims... How dare you play STALKER with max in game settings AND attain 50-60FPS average?
Now enable more eyecandy from the Nvidia CPL to get more in-line FPS-wise with older gen cards

EDIT: I forgot... AA doesn't work, AF won't affect performance THAT much... yeah swtethan, damn software people! Now Nvidia/ATi were kind enough to give us good hardware... we want more stuff to turn on!

 

[Modular]

This thread delivers! :thumbsup:

 

[soybeast]

I feel the same way xDarc. I jumped up to a 2900xt from a 9600 pro and I can't feel a difference. I was like, wtf mang, quake 3 still looks like sh!t.

The graphics card market is def. n00b.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: soybeast
I feel the same way xDarc. I jumped up to a 2900xt from a 9600 pro and I can't feel a difference. I was like, wtf mang, quake 3 still looks like sh!t.

The graphics card market is def. n00b.

is my sarcasm meter broken?

 

[terentenet]

Originally posted by: soybeast
I feel the same way xDarc. I jumped up to a 2900xt from a 9600 pro and I can't feel a difference. I was like, wtf mang, quake 3 still looks like sh!t.

The graphics card market is def. n00b.

LOL! Yeah, Q3 looks the and plays the same since 2003.

is my sarcasm meter broken?

Yes, it's been broken ever since you purchased that unholy 8800GTS. Infact, it's the 8800GTS that has broken your sarcasm meter. Now punish that GTS with some STALKER, with PR inflated FPS.

 

[squ1sh]

Originally posted by: soybeast
I feel the same way xDarc. I jumped up to a 2900xt from a 9600 pro and I can't feel a difference. I was like, wtf mang, quake 3 still looks like sh!t.

The graphics card market is def. n00b.

Well, considering 9600pro for Q3 is overkill I'm not surprised. =D

I'm considering getting a 8800GTX for research reasons (we're doing CUDA programming as a summer research project for my school here in Augustana, SD).
Not sure if I want to spend the money.

 

[Munky]

I hope nobody jumped to a 8800gtx trying to make Space Invaders look better...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: squ1sh

Originally posted by: soybeast
I feel the same way xDarc. I jumped up to a 2900xt from a 9600 pro and I can't feel a difference. I was like, wtf mang, quake 3 still looks like sh!t.

The graphics card market is def. n00b.

Well, considering 9600pro for Q3 is overkill I'm not surprised. =D

I'm considering getting a 8800GTX for research reasons (we're doing CUDA programming as a summer research project for my school here in Augustana, SD).
Not sure if I want to spend the money.

Sounds like a cutting edge class. Nice!

@ Munky: Devs are redoing Space Invaders. DX10 style!!

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: munky
I hope nobody jumped to a 8800gtx trying to make Space Invaders look better...

Solitaire and minesweeper look 10000000x better

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: munky
I hope nobody jumped to a 8800gtx trying to make Space Invaders look better...

Solitaire and minesweeper look 10000000x better

 

[terentenet]

Just create a profile for solitaire and apply 16xAA, 16xAF and TRAA on it. Those cards will look so nice with no jaggies *licks monitor*. You need to have Forceware 158.27 or higher though. On 158.22 FPS tends to drop under 30 and solitaire stutters like crazy.

 

[ryanmw2002]

I think the original poster needs to look at the bigger picture of the market.

My vid card timeline goes like this:

9600pro - $150.....sold for $100
9700pro - $140.....sold for $110
9800pro - $150.....sold for $95
x800gto2 - $180....sold for $105
7900gs - $175......still more than enough for most titles

The point is, its not about whats the best out there right now, its about buying something and using it for what you need right now and getting the job done well at the same time.

Yea I may only be able to game at 2x AA instead of 4x at high settings (1650x1080) but i'm not overly consumed with the fact that my money will be wasted after 4 weeks of gaming.

Sell your card, take a small hit and buy a moderately better one. Its the best thing you can do with your money. Then once DX10 titles come out, sell that card and get the next best bang for buck. Rinse, Repeat.

 

[zagood]

*cough* 15 posts *wheeze* no negative posts about ati *sneeze*

(I'm allergic to trolls)

-z

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: zagood
*cough* 15 posts *wheeze* no negative posts about ati *sneeze*

(I'm allergic to trolls)

-z

your right eye is bigger than the other one :Q and youre turning red :Q

 

[smthmlk]

xdarc: why do you use semicolons everywhere instead of coma's? Same with dashes near the end, as well. Just curious.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: smthmlk
xdarc: why do you use semicolons everywhere instead of coma's? Same with dashes near the end, as well. Just curious.

he's a distant relative of apoopin

 

[xDarc]

When the "conroe" equivalent of a graphics card comes out soon enough after the new fab process; and the dust settles from these price fixing lawsuits- I think you'll understand why I use the phrase "victims."

I'm just explaining myself over and over again to a group of testy 8800 owners each twisting what I say their own way- but the fact is these cards are not a value; they don't offer a sweet enough price/performance boost. It's been this way for a few years now on both sides of the market... Instead of seeing newer cards from either ATI or Nvidia that offer double the performance of another generation at the same original price... we're seeing cards that offer double the performance for double the original price- where's the value in that?

Instant gratification is not a quantifier of "value."

The market really is FUBAR. We've got ATI X1950XTX cards costing as much as new 8800GTS 320MB; and in some cases more. We've got Nvidia's 8500 and 8600 series cards performing no better than cards made 2 or more years ago... and yet Nvidia asks the same original prices for no real improvement in performance on something generations ago. The 8800 Ultra series is routinely eclipsing 800 dollars- a few of them fetching around 1,000 dollars.

With every next generation the ceiling on these prices keeps rising, and the prices down the rungs for that same line of card raises up across the board. It is getting absolutely ridiculous.

The market is out of control; and instead of protesting- you're just being complacent, which is part of the reason why this is going on in the first place.

Spin it any way you like- but the current trend in the graphic's card market is unsustainable and it WILL change, and soon. It's really dissapointing that it got this bad in the first place.

 

[swtethan]

do the people you work for pay you well to bash nvidia?