Why Voter ID laws are superfluous

[Amused]

I have noticed few, if any, really understand how our voting system works and fall for simplistic and impossible conspiracies like "ballot box stuffing" and "ballots from Chyna."

So here is an explanation for those people and also an explanation why IDs at the polls are irrelevant and unnecessary...

If ANYONE sat and ACTUALLY thought about how voting works in the US, they would quickly understand why IDs are not at all required to vote. Why? For the same reason mail-in ballots work securely.

1. You must register to vote at your current address.

2. Your name and address combo are added to the voter rolls after verification of your citizenship and eligibility to vote (THIS IS YOUR ID CHECK).

3. When you go to vote, you give the person your name and address combo and they check your name off the voter rolls as having voted.

4. When votes are counted, name and address combos MUST match voter rolls. Anomalies (not on rolls or multiple votes from one name/address combo) are rare, and are tossed.

This makes fraud virtually impossible. NO ONE is complaining that they had their vote stolen by someone pretending to be them. This is so rare as to be virtually non-existent.

This system also makes ballot box stuffing impossible, as each ballot much match a name and address on the voter rolls ONCE. Anomalies are tossed. ALL of them. So a double vote ends up being non vote.

Rarely do people make up fake names and addresses and register as this is tedious and also a federal crime with stiff penalties. It happens so rarely that when it does, it's big news and the convictions for doing so are swift and severe. Adding the extra step of creating a fake ID for each isn't going to slow that down because they already had to create an entirely fake identity to register it.

End of story. ID requirements have NEVER been necessary.

 

[soundforbjt]

I have noticed few, if any, really understand how our voting system works and fall for simplistic and impossible conspiracies like "ballot box stuffing" and "ballots from Chyna."

So here is an explanation for those people and also an explanation why IDs at the polls are irrelevant and unnecessary...

If ANYONE sat and ACTUALLY thought about how voting works in the US, they would quickly understand why IDs are not at all required to vote. Why? For the same reason mail-in ballots work securely.

1. You must register to vote at your current address.

2. Your name and address combo are added to the voter rolls after verification of your citizenship and eligibility to vote (THIS IS YOUR ID CHECK).

3. When you go to vote, you give the person your name and address combo and they check your name off the voter rolls as having voted.

4. When votes are counted, name and address combos MUST match voter rolls. Anomalies (not on rolls or multiple votes from one name/address combo) are rare, and are tossed.

This makes fraud virtually impossible. NO ONE is complaining that they had their vote stolen by someone pretending to be them. This is so rare as to be virtually non-existent.

This system also makes ballot box stuffing impossible, as each ballot much match a name and address on the voter rolls ONCE. Anomalies are tossed. ALL of them. So a double vote ends up being non vote.

Rarely do people make up fake names and addresses and register as this is tedious and also a federal crime with stiff penalties. It happens so rarely that when it does, it's big news and the convictions for doing so are swift and severe. Adding the extra step of creating a fake ID for each isn't going to slow that down because they already had to create an entirely fake identity to register it.

End of story. ID requirements have NEVER been necessary.

View attachment 48239

But...but...trump really won, he said so.

 

[Greenman]

So much fuss about producing an id.
Things that require an id.
Buying booze.
Buying cigarettes.
Buying a home.
Renting a home.
Renting an apartment.
Renting a car.
Buying prescription drugs.
Buying some over the counter drugs.
Opening a bank account.
Buying a car.
Getting a job.
Cashing a check.
I'm sure I missed a few.

Just get an id.

 

[fskimospy]

So much fuss about producing an id.
Things that require an id.
Buying booze.
Buying cigarettes.
Buying a home.
Renting a home.
Renting an apartment.
Renting a car.
Buying prescription drugs.
Buying some over the counter drugs.
Opening a bank account.
Buying a car.
Getting a job.
Cashing a check.
I'm sure I missed a few.

Just get an id.

If voter ID is a good thing then explain how on its own merits. What real problem that actually exists is it solving?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Voter ID laws are simple and everyone is expected to have one.


So how about instead of you - Another CIS-Gender white male speaking on behalf of minorities - instead let them speak for themselves toolbag? You racist biggot moron:

Oh but your white self knows what's best for them uppity minorities, right?

Thankfully, the American people strongly disagree with a ban on voter ID, as an Associated Press poll found that 72% of respondents support it. Likewise, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll found 74% of Georgians supporting voter ID.

Digging deeper, the Rasmussen Reports found that wide margins of minority voters support voter ID as well: 69% of African Americans and 82% of other nonwhite minorities.

 

[pauldun170]

What state issues free ids with no renewal fee?

 

[fskimospy]

Voter ID laws are simple and everyone is expected to have one.


So how about instead of you - Another CIS-Gender white male speaking on behalf of minorities - instead let them speak for themselves toolbag? You racist biggot moron:

Oh but your white self knows what's best for them uppity minorities, right?

I didn’t mention minorities anywhere.

Voter ID laws are self evidently stupid.

 

[allisolm]

If ANYONE sat and ACTUALLY thought about how voting works in the US, they would quickly understand why IDs are not at all required to vote.

Except for the fact that in many states they ARE.

 

[Greenman]

If voter ID is a good thing then explain how on its own merits. What real problem that actually exists is it solving?

Maybe none, but that's not the point. You pretty much have to have an id to be a functioning member of society, or an alcoholic smoker, or a meth cooker. Having id isn't an unreasonable burden for anyone.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe none, but that's not the point. You pretty much have to have an id to be a functioning member of society, or an alcoholic smoker, or a meth cooker. Having id isn't an unreasonable burden for anyone.

I think whether or not voter ID laws do anything is very much the point in a thread about voter ID laws, haha.

It doesn't matter if you think the burden is reasonable or unreasonable. If you're going to have the government mandate people do something you should show that it will plausibly accomplish something. This rule applies to every law and regulation in existence.

Since the type of fraud voter ID laws exist to prevent essentially does not exist, voter ID laws are stupid. A -> B.

 

[K1052]

Maybe none, but that's not the point.

lol

 

[Paratus]

So much fuss about producing an id.
Things that require an id.
Buying booze.
Buying cigarettes.
Buying a home.
Renting a home.
Renting an apartment.
Renting a car.
Buying prescription drugs.
Buying some over the counter drugs.
Opening a bank account.
Buying a car.
Getting a job.
Cashing a check.
I'm sure I missed a few.

Just get an id.

Voter ID Laws Deprive Many Americans of the Right to Vote

• Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.1
• Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.
  • Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2
  • The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.3

Some of those 11million have been voting longer than you’ve been alive. Why should they have to incur a bunch of expenses to keep voting because of your feels?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Using the logic of modern day republicans, if the opposition supports it then it is bad for me.
However, I am willing to make a deal. Someone who wants voter ID for all, what do I get in return for allowing it?
rules:
Assume we are the policy makers and what we agree upon becomes reality
No need to quibble over minor detail best guess is good enough

here is what I propose.
Voter ID for all elections, ID needs to be obtainable as in x number of locations spread equally as possible over y distance. Staffing to follow a similar formula.
I am fine with a tax increase to pay for a new branch of state gov to off set costs
I am okay with ununiformed cops to verify questionable IDs on Election Day but that is to be the Cops only function. Overtime pay for the cops can come out of the above tax.
I am okay with people paying some money to get the ID.

What I want in return is Popular vote winner is the election winner. Whomever gets the most votes wins. I am open to discussion about run off elections or some mechanism to prevent there being one million candidates and the winner got 30k votes but for the purpose of this discussion let’s shelve those ideas or handle them briefly.

Deal?

 

[fskimospy]

Using the logic of modern day republicans, if the opposition supports it then it is bad for me.
However, I am willing to make a deal. Someone who wants voter ID for all, what do I get in return for allowing it?
rules:
Assume we are the policy makers and what we agree upon becomes reality
No need to quibble over minor detail best guess is good enough

here is what I propose.
Voter ID for all elections, ID needs to be obtainable as in x number of locations spread equally as possible over y distance. Staffing to follow a similar formula.
I am fine with a tax increase to pay for a new branch of state gov to off set costs
I am okay with ununiformed cops to verify questionable IDs on Election Day but that is to be the Cops only function. Overtime pay for the cops can come out of the above tax.
I am okay with people paying some money to get the ID.

What I want in return is Popular vote winner is the election winner. Whomever gets the most votes wins. I am open to discussion about run off elections or some mechanism to prevent there being one million candidates and the winner got 30k votes but for the purpose of this discussion let’s shelve those ideas or handle them briefly.

Deal?

I would trade a ban on gerrymandering for voter ID. Voter ID is stupid, but enacting it would be less harmful than allowing gerrymandering to continue to thwart the will of the country.

 

[ondma]

Voter ID Laws Deprive Many Americans of the Right to Vote

• Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.1
• Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.
  • Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2
  • The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.3

Some of those 11million have been voting longer than you’ve been alive. Why should they have to incur a bunch of expenses to keep voting because of your feels?

Source for that data?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I would trade a ban on gerrymandering for voter ID. Voter ID is stupid, but enacting it would be less harmful than allowing gerrymandering to continue to thwart the will of the country.

Funny thing is I have tried this in other threads and surprise! I never have any takers or even a counter offer.
If something is super important to get done you usually compromise on something else to get what you urgently want.
Strange how that never happens.

I did get one offer regarding building a wall. The simple version is “Ill build the wall and let you raise taxes to pay for it”
Silly because allowing me to raise taxes to pay for your project is not exactly a deal I want. Frankly it isn’t even a deal, the whole structure is one sided.

 

[soundforbjt]

I’ll make real simple, show me verified data that a problem exists with current voting laws and I’ll agree that voter ID laws are needed.

 

[fskimospy]

Funny thing is I have tried this in other threads and surprise! I never have any takers or even a counter offer.
If something is super important to get done you usually compromise on something else to get what you urgently want.
Strange how that never happens.

I did get one offer regarding building a wall. The simple version is “Ill build the wall and let you raise taxes to pay for it”
Silly because allowing me to raise taxes to pay for your project is not exactly a deal I want. Frankly it isn’t even a deal, the whole structure is one sided.

They don't want to give up anything for it because they know it doesn't do anything.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I’ll make real simple, show me verified data that a problem exists with current voting laws and I’ll agree that voter ID laws are needed.

Problems aren't something that are always easy to identify. Just because it hasn't been discovered doesn't equate to it not existing. They are often covered up and attempted to be concealed.

You know, like the tons of rape victims from Cuomo and other Democrats have had over the years?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Problems aren't something that are always easy to identify. Just because it hasn't been discovered doesn't equate to it not existing. They are often covered up and attempted to be concealed.

You know, like the tons of rape victims from Cuomo and other Democrats have had over the years?

see post #13
What do you propose?
lets make a deal.

 

[soundforbjt]

What state issues free ids with no renewal fee?

Illinois, if you’re over 65.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Maybe none, but that's not the point. You pretty much have to have an id to be a functioning member of society, or an alcoholic smoker, or a meth cooker. Having id isn't an unreasonable burden for anyone.

You have to show ID/ prove you identity, prove your address, and give your signature when you register to vote. Registering to vote is a requirement to vote (AKA, you have already proven your identity and summitted the information that validates your ballots/vote) When you vote, that ballot goes thru a verification process and compared with the registration information on file, showing your ID won't change that, regardless if you show ID at the booth or not. You could present a fake ID at the booth and try to vote under someone else's name, and that ballot will be thrown out BECAUSE it won't pass the verification process. (See below) Expecting people to show ID at the booths, is identical to expecting you to show id every time you order a drink at the over 21 club you already showed to get inside proving you are 21. You already passed the verification process to get inside.. making showing your id at the bar every time you order a drink pointless.

Fake ID's are easy to obtain. But here is the kicker... Unless you register with that fake ID, showing it at the voting booth won't matter because the ballot won't pass the verification process because it won't match the registration information.

 

[fskimospy]

Problems aren't something that are always easy to identify. Just because it hasn't been discovered doesn't equate to it not existing. They are often covered up and attempted to be concealed.

You know, like the tons of rape victims from Cuomo and other Democrats have had over the years?

So let me get this straight - you believe the voter fraudsters are some sort of super criminals able to avoid the full investigatory might of local, state and federal governments for decades on end to remain invisible, and your solution to defeat these masterminds is to require a level of security frequently defeated by teenagers at local liquor stores.

 

[Meghan54]

Problems aren't something that are always easy to identify. Just because it hasn't been discovered doesn't equate to it not existing. They are often covered up and attempted to be concealed.

You know, like the tons of rape victims from Cuomo and other Democrats have had over the years?

Right. GWB had a Congressional commission search for 4 years to uncover the “extensive” voter fraud in the 2000 election. 84 individuals were prosecuted nationwide as a result of that 4 year investigation.

And voter fraud, at the individual level which is where the argument for voter ID comes into play, is so rare that Trump gave up after investigating for fraud in the 2016 election and finding nothing. Trump’s investigative committee never referred anyone for prosecution.

And it sure seems individuals who try get caught. Dem or Repub. Of course, this doesn’t address crap like a GOP candidate cheating…like in NC.

 

[HomerJS]

If people are so concerned about the vote why is nothing being done to...

make voting lines shorter
expanding access to the polls
Stop Republicans from closing places in mainly minority districts
Stop all these bogus "audits"
Stop Republicans who have been actually found guilty of stealing votes.
Stop Republicans from arbitrary types of ID such as in Texas allowing conceal carry ID but refuse college ID
Expand early voting allowing all days of the week so hourly workers are not hindered.
Stop trying to get in the way of black people voting on Sunday

This is all from memory. I'm sure I missed others

PS - Mishandling of ballots after they are cast. Republicans were found guilty in court of doing that. More votes mishandled then ALL the total fraudulent votes found nationwide at least since 2000.