Why Voter ID laws are superfluous

[Amol S.]

Maybe we should eliminate the Electoral College and make the Presidential election a pure nation-wide popular vote.

Made a thread on that already, and repubtraitor Taj who thinks they can predict USSC, as if they once worked there, claims it unconstitutional.

Discussion - Could this be an alternative if the For The People Act?

Could the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact Act be the alternative for the "For The People Act"? We know the "For The People Act"'s results in future sessions of congress lays in the hands of the federal government, and the states can't do anything about it other than changing their laws...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[NWRMidnight]

Although I am not the forumer you were replying to, just wanted to give you an FYI that New York State allows illegal immigrants to obtain a driver's licence. However, it is illigal for any non-US citizen to vote. Just answering that question of which one of the requirements is not a requirement to vote.

What does New York have to do with the Texas driver's license requirements he put up? Also, when did an optional choice turn into a requirement. Last time I looked at the definition of optional, it was never defined to mean required. However, I am pretty sure I clarified US citizens can only vote, and clarified the language in Texas driver's license requirements that mention non us citizens (NO I didn't specifically state legal or illegal, but that is not relevant). New York falls under the same non us citizenship language, legal or not legal, and was already excluded as non us citizens are not legal to vote no matter their immigration status. But since you brought up New York's optional path for illegal's to obtain a license, you just demonstrated why showing ID at the polls is nothing more than suppression and nothing to do with proving identity or legality to vote. That is all done via voter registration.

 

[Amol S.]

What does New York have to do with the Texas driver's license requirements he put up? I am pretty sure I clarified US citizens can only vote, and clarified the language in Texas driver's license requirements that mention non us citizens (NO I didn't specifically state legal or illegal, but that is not relevant). New York falls under the same non us citizenship language, legal or not legal, and was already excluded as non us citizens are not legal to vote no matter their immigration status. Just incase you missed it, I also excluded all requirements pertaining to the vehicles, like insurance and such. . But since you brought up New York's path for illegal's to obtain a license, you just demonstrated why showing ID at the polls is nothing more than suppression and nothing to do with proving identity or legality to vote. That is all done via voter registration.

Let me tell you why voter and state ID requirements benefits Democrats and Independents. Before you presume I am a Trumpster, hear my defense. What is the typical age group of Republican voters? On average, what percentage of that age group have drivers license or are still fit to drive? How many of those in that age group live near public transport to get to a polling center in Texas? Let that simmer in, and think for a while, what would be the result of the Texas voting law passing.

Here is a hint: The Democrats are going the wrong way, if their destination is victory, by not supporting this bill.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Let me tell you why voter and state ID requirements benefits Democrats and Independents. Before you presume I am a Trumpster, hear my defense. What is the typical age group of Republican voters? On average, what percentage of that age group have drivers license or are still fit to drive? How many of those in that age group live near public transport to get to a polling center in Texas? Let that simmer in, and think for a while, what would be the result of the Texas voting law passing.

Here is a hint: The Democrats are going the wrong way, if their destination is victory, by not supporting this bill.

Are you trying to say that the GOP elderly out number the minorities, poor, low income, elderly, disabled, etc on the democrat side? Sure sounds like it. Maybe you need to step back and let your brain do a little simmering with ALL of the people voter ID laws effect, not just the ones that make up the smallest portion of those voters. Also, most of the elderly GOP are from higher income families meaning they will not have as big of an issue getting to the polls, or ID, which shrinks the number of GOP who will be effected even more so than all the others.

 

[Meghan54]

Although I am not the forumer you were replying to, just wanted to give you an FYI that New York State allows illegal immigrants to obtain a driver's licence. However, it is illigal for any non-US citizen to vote. Just answering that question of which one of the requirements is not a requirement to vote.

And your point is?

What difference does illegal immigrants having legally obtained driver’s licenses make in all this? Red herring, perhaps?

 

[killster1]

And your point is?

What difference does illegal immigrants having legally obtained driver’s licenses make in all this? Red herring, perhaps?

if illegal aliens contribute more to society than you(name one instance where someone that contributes yet has no form of ID, a off the grid farmer? Maybe your vote really isn't important?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Register to Vote

Register to vote or update your voter information online.

www.ny.gov

Looks like you need a valid form of ID to register to vote, which is approved by the county board of elections.

Based on this criteria listed, and illegal immigrant wouldn't be approved.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Register to Vote

Register to vote or update your voter information online.

www.ny.gov

This thread seems to have gone exactly like the last voter id thread. A valid ID is required to register. So you're already providing an ID to even get your name on the list of registered voters. When you show up to vote, that nice volunteer for your voting precinct checks your name and address, which again is part of the registration process.

Here's MA, my home state

Voter Registration in Massachusetts | DMV.ORG

Learn how to register to vote in MA and where to update your voter registration before the next Massachusetts election.

www.dmv.org

Again, same as NY.

Not much need to check your ID again, but claiming that an ID isnt needed to vote, at least in NY or MA, is just lying.

Claiming mass vote fraud without evidence makes you as easily manipulated as the religious zealot.

 

[Fenixgoon]

if illegal aliens contribute more to society than you(name one instance where someone that contributes yet has no form of ID, a off the grid farmer? Maybe your vote really isn't important?

The right to vote is a quintessential post of this country's ideals. Every eligible voters has a right to cast their vote, no matter how important or not they may be considered to society.
Or should we go back to only white men who own land? Why not add income and education requirements on top of that? That will surely weed out a lot of unworthy voters whose votes simply aren't that well informed anyway. /S

 

[soulcougher73]

i love it str8 love it when people like you say this "PROVe this impossible to prove fact or we can say its pointless" yea how about you prove that your not pissing the bed every night or its not true.. i mean seriously i want to see proof for every night the past 40 years of your life. or we can all just assume you piss yourself daily.

You are not very bright. Let me see if i can shed some light. If you claim fraud is happening so frequently, then it should be VERY easy for you to prove it is happening. Since nobody ever proves fraud is happening, you are trying to put the horse before the cart, or you are trying to find a solution to a non-existent problem of which you claim exists, but cannot prove.

Try thinking for once. It will better your life.

 

[fskimospy]

Let me tell you why voter and state ID requirements benefits Democrats and Independents. Before you presume I am a Trumpster, hear my defense. What is the typical age group of Republican voters? On average, what percentage of that age group have drivers license or are still fit to drive? How many of those in that age group live near public transport to get to a polling center in Texas? Let that simmer in, and think for a while, what would be the result of the Texas voting law passing.

Here is a hint: The Democrats are going the wrong way, if their destination is victory, by not supporting this bill.

Maybe supporting democracy and the right to vote is a good thing, even if it doesn’t help one particular party win elections.

 

[ElFenix]

What you guys don't understand is that killster1 thinks his vote is wasted because he lives in California, so he doesn't care that other people are dissuaded from voting because they don't participate in society to whatever arbitrary level, or in whatever arbitrary way, killster1 thinks they should participate. It's okay that they don't vote, because killster1, who thinks that he's a valuable American, doesn't vote. And killster1 doesn't see a difference between his vote being wasted because there are simply far more Democrats, and someone being dissuaded from voting because of structural rules designed specifically for dissuading people from voting.

And that is because he's actually a really shitty American. Which is quite common through our history. We have a lot of shitty people. He's not at all an outlier or uncommon. In fact he's probably the majority if you go through our entire history. Maybe even a super majority.

 

[fskimospy]

What you guys don't understand is that killster1 thinks his vote is wasted because he lives in California, so he doesn't care that other people are dissuaded from voting because they don't participate in society to whatever arbitrary level, or in whatever arbitrary way, killster1 thinks they should participate. It's okay that they don't vote, because killster1, who thinks that he's a valuable American, doesn't vote. And killster1 doesn't see a difference between his vote being wasted because there are simply far more Democrats, and someone being dissuaded from voting because of structural rules designed specifically for dissuading people from voting.

And that is because he's actually a really shitty American. Which is quite common through our history. We have a lot of shitty people. He's not at all an outlier or uncommon. In fact he's probably the majority if you go through our entire history. Maybe even a super majority.

What’s really going to blow his mind is that every vote is ‘wasted’ by his standard except for two: the vote that moves a candidate from a loss to a tie and the vote that moves them from a tie to a win.

 

[soulcougher73]

so funny that you pretend to know if bigfoot exists or not, you are the all knowing being of the world. thank you for gracing us with your presence. i didnt argue its only 10$ i argued that if you are a productive member in society you would have a ID.

I remember when Nazis asked people to show their papers. Sounds familiar. You have a lot in common with them it appears.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Let me tell you why voter and state ID requirements benefits Democrats and Independents. Before you presume I am a Trumpster, hear my defense.

Okay, I listened. Now let me answer your questions, because I don't think the answers are what you think they are.

What is the typical age group of Republican voters?

Probably just a little higher then that of Democrats. Republicans are not winning races by just getting a bunch of old people to vote for them.
There are lots of Republicans of all ages. My 25 year old stepdaughter is a die hard Republican, as is my 40 year old brother. Basically all my extended family is Republican, and that is everything from teens to octogenarians. Some are MAGA types, but most are more moderate. But the one thing they all have in common is that they votes for Trump, and would again because they all feel that they would rather tear down our Democracy then elect a Democrat, and they will tell you that directly. Family gatherings are hard for me.

On average, what percentage of that age group have drivers license or are still fit to drive?

The vast majority. Texas never takes your license away from you. My father is in his mid 70's almost completely blind, can barely stand up, fall asleep in the middle of sentences, and still drives.

How many of those in that age group live near public transport to get to a polling center in Texas?

There is almost no public transport in Texas. I'm fairly certain that the GOP thinks of public transport as communism.

 

[soundforbjt]

As proven once again in every voter ID thread, republicans can show no data that voter ID is needed to prevent in- person voting fraud. It strictly all boils down to their feels. That and they won’t admit the only real reason is to cut the amount of people voting to their advantage.

 

[hal2kilo]

Although voter ID is an issue, I'm more worried about caging Voter caging - Wikipedia, massive reductions in voting locations, elimination of drop boxes, and most important of all, voter nullification by the whims of the controlling partisan party.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Although voter ID is an issue, I'm more worried about caging Voter caging - Wikipedia, massive reductions in voting locations, elimination of drop boxes, and most important of all, voter nullification by the whims of the controlling partisan party.

I agree caging is an issue, I think it is just one in a growing number of Jim Crow style tactics that the GOP is using to suppress the votes, and a more obvious one at that so more likely to be resisted. For example while everyone is discussing the voter ID part of the bill in Texas that the Democrats walked out on the bill was created because of Harris County's decision to work around some of the rules the Texas Republicans tried to make it harder or more uncomfortable for voters in more densely populated areas to vote. Things like limiting voting locations to increase wait times, making it illegal to provide shade or water for people waiting outside in Houston's hot and humid climate (and while yes, in November the temperature tends to be fairly mild in Houston we don't just have elections in November), and banning drive up voting locations. Texas stays red mainly because they have been very successful in suppressing the voters in the urban areas of the state through such tactics.

 

[Paratus]

Voter ID for Thee but not for Me!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1570411946956193795

Alabama Chair of the GOP whose family is anabaptist and don’t like to have their pictures taken gets poll worker who raised issues about them voting fired. Alabama requires picture ID and doesn’t have a religious exemption. Only work around is if two poll workers will sign affidavits stating they know you are a legitimate voter.

No one is actually sure what the ID he did have (above ) is, if it’s legitimate or if it could be used as Voter ID

AL GOP chair reportedly still pro Voter ID.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Using the logic of modern day republicans, if the opposition supports it then it is bad for me.
However, I am willing to make a deal. Someone who wants voter ID for all, what do I get in return for allowing it?
rules:
Assume we are the policy makers and what we agree upon becomes reality
No need to quibble over minor detail best guess is good enough

here is what I propose.
Voter ID for all elections, ID needs to be obtainable as in x number of locations spread equally as possible over y distance. Staffing to follow a similar formula.
I am fine with a tax increase to pay for a new branch of state gov to off set costs
I am okay with ununiformed cops to verify questionable IDs on Election Day but that is to be the Cops only function. Overtime pay for the cops can come out of the above tax.
I am okay with people paying some money to get the ID.

What I want in return is Popular vote winner is the election winner. Whomever gets the most votes wins. I am open to discussion about run off elections or some mechanism to prevent there being one million candidates and the winner got 30k votes but for the purpose of this discussion let’s shelve those ideas or handle them briefly.

Deal?

I’m still looking to make a deal any takers?
See above quote

 

[HomerJS]

Why voter ID laws as Republicans want to implement them is bad...

 

[MtnMan]

Voter ID laws are not superfluous.

They are a barrier to poor people voting, and that is why the right pushes for voter ID so hard.

 

[ondma]

Voter ID laws are not superfluous.

They are a barrier to poor people voting, and that is why the right pushes for voter ID so hard.

Some voter restriction laws are certainly ridiculous. As far as ID is concerned though, you have to have ID to buy alcohol or cigarettes, get on an airplane, open a bank account, buy (or even rent) a car, rent an apartment, and on and on. Are you saying poor people cant do any of these?

 

[HomerJS]

Some voter restriction laws are certainly ridiculous. As far as ID is concerned though, you have to have ID to buy alcohol or cigarettes, get on an airplane, open a bank account, buy (or even rent) a car, rent an apartment, and on and on. Are you saying poor people cant do any of these?

Republicans are choosing the types of ID they know disproportionately effect poorer people, minorities, students etc. Allowing conceal carry but not student IDs

Choose the type of ID people can produce (utility bill). If not let's do this right, issue a federal voter ID card that all states must accept. Costs to be born jointly by the federal government and the states.

 

[andy2000]

Some voter restriction laws are certainly ridiculous. As far as ID is concerned though, you have to have ID to buy alcohol or cigarettes, get on an airplane, open a bank account, buy (or even rent) a car, rent an apartment, and on and on. Are you saying poor people cant do any of these?

None of those are constitutional rights, so they can have more restrictions.

If the government is going to require an ID to vote, they should have to go door to door providing free IDs to everyone who is eligible to vote.

I still don't buy than mass numbers of people would risk prison time to try to vote illegally when it's hard to get registered voters to bother.