why we should increase overdraft fees

Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
i can say i agree for the most part.
only part i might disagree with in the tiniest bit is how banks will clear the larger checks first to incur more fees, but then again, if you had enough in the account to begin with, thsi wouldn't be an issue.

i've overdraft once, not because i didn't have enough money but because i have several checking accounts and wrote a check from the wrong one.

Text

Lately the papers have been full of terrible stories about folks getting charged $35 or more without warning every time they overdraw their checking accounts, and Congress is outraged and plans to fix this problem. Legislation has already been introduced. These stories make me crazy angry?I have to count to 10 and remember to breathe slowly whenever I think about it. Congress has it all wrong. In their wisdom, lawmakers want to help people by lowering these fees when what they should be doing is raising them much, much higher. Why not charge at least $100 if you overdraft at the ATM? That seems a reasonable fee to pay to get $20 that you don't have from the bank.

But the banks, fearing Congress's wrath, are caving. Bank of America, JPMorgan, and Wells Fargo have announced that they will reduce fees and will not charge at all for very small overdrafts. This is a terrible mistake. It won't stop the runaway arguments for still more regulation, and in the lingo of think-tank eggheads, it hurts the very people it is intended to help.

The politicians think they're doing the right thing. They argue that the bank fees disproportionately hurt poor people. Wrong. They disproportionately hurt people who spend money they don't have. That's the only group, rich or poor, that gets hit with overdraft fees. That's why it's called an "overdraft" fee.

Another common argument is that it's unfair for banks to charge you for five or six overdrafts in a row just before your paycheck kicks in, especially if they were small amounts. Wrong again. This is when it's most fair to charge you more. If you know the money is coming in a couple of days, and you can't help yourself from spending, then these fees are your friend.

Maybe some banks should cut off your debit cards when the account is drained, just like they do with your Visa when it hits pre-approved limit. Really, do you need to be told by the bank that you're about to overdraw your account? Are we so pathetic that we need Wells Fargo to be our mommy? You're the one who spent money you didn?t have. You're lucky they cover it and only charge you a fee instead of letting you go to jail for kiting checks. In the old days they used to have a thing called debtor's prison, and people did not like to go there.

This is another symptom of our nanny state run amok, where every kid is gifted and talented, and every product comes with a warning label. I bought my son a pair of swimming goggles this summer, and on the packaging it said: "Will not prevent drowning." My boy may be a genius, but apparently the goggle company's not so sure. The label on Kraft Easy Cheese says, ?For best results, remove cap? before using. (Then again, if you like your cheese to squirt out of a bottle, maybe that kind of guidance isn't as crazy as it sounds.)

It really comes down to a simple truth that we seem to have forgotten as a nation: if you spend money that is not yours, guess whose fault that is? And guess who should suffer the consequences of your profligacy? Your bank? The store? No. Welcome to Overdraftville. Population: You. You're the one who spent $300 on that god-awful Tommy Bahama sweater when you had only $250 to your name. The bank didn't buy that sweater. As best I can tell, the bank doesn't have arms and legs, or even a car to get to the mall. And besides, where could you find a sweater big enough to fit all the way around a bank?

Lest you think I'm a holier-than-thou jerk, I've overdrafted plenty of times. I did it when I was in a tight fix, when I needed cash to get through the holidays, or my car unexpectedly broke down. But I knew exactly what the penalty would be, and I sure as hell didn't expect a warning. I always felt that paying the exorbitant overdraft charge was kind of a shame enforcer, a rap on the knuckles that I totally deserved. But the politicians who want to lower these fees are teaching us that it's OK to spend what we don't have. (Isn't that what got us into this financial mess in the first place?) Maybe they should put one of those warning labels on your ATM card: "For best results, have money before using."
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Ummm, no. One of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. Right up there with "cut taxes for the wealthy/trickle-down Reaganomics".
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,651
50,912
136
What a ridiculous article. He wants (basically) 500% interest charged on a loan that the customer is not explicitly authorizing, what a dumb idea.

I would be perfectly comfortable with banks charging whatever they want on overdraft fees if it were an optional program you could sign up for if you chose to. With Bank of America (until they got scared of this legislation) it was almost impossible to opt out of their 'service'.

The government should absolutely step in and keep banks from pulling this shady shit. If you want overdraft protection, great... sign up for it.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I am not against overdraft fee's. I just dislike how some of them are applied. I think it is bunk after the first check each subsequent check is nailed. If the bank was truely worried about their money situation why not turn the check back and let the merchant deal with it? All they are looking for is cheap money under the guise of a penalty.

I also think it is a bunch of shit when they get a series of checks and cash the biggest one first and nails every small one with an overdraft.

I dont say lower the fee's. Just reform how much a bank can take people to the cleaners over an overdraft.

And if it was upto me, I'd outlaw debit cards. What a god damn scam. We will give you a card that acts like a credit card in every which way except the way it matters most. The ability to recitfy your statement to a receipt before any of your money exchanges hands with the bank.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Ummm, no. One of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. Right up there with "cut taxes for the wealthy/trickle-down Reaganomics".

explain.
are you encouraging poeple to spend more than what they have?
or we need more govt intervention?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,355
126
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Ummm, no. One of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. Right up there with "cut taxes for the wealthy/trickle-down Reaganomics".

explain.
are you encouraging poeple to spend more than what they have?
or we need more govt intervention?

I dont believe the article really addresses an issue. Chronic overspenders probably dont have bank accounts for long. The people I know who had that problem lost their accounts and were unable to open new ones after that. Not to mention the DA was looking into their spending habits.

So he is talking about a situation where he wants to penalize people who are not chronic abusers the same as chronic abusers by jacking up the rates. I overdrafted twice in my life. One through my own fault, another through no fault of my own. The overdraft fee doesnt keep me from overdrafting. Keeping a tighter control on my checkbook balance does. And I suspect most people who overdraft every once in a while are in the same boat. So why such a harsh punishment when they arent chronic or in need of change?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Ummm, no. One of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. Right up there with "cut taxes for the wealthy/trickle-down Reaganomics".
explain.
are you encouraging poeple to spend more than what they have?
or we need more govt intervention?
Nobody is advocating such a thing. Banks reorder credits and debits such that it causes overdrafts.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

you talking about me?
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

call them up and tell them you don't want overdraft. My last bank disabled it for me.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81


But the banks, fearing Congress's wrath, are caving. Bank of America, JPMorgan, and Wells Fargo have announced that they will reduce fees and will not charge at all for very small overdrafts. This is a terrible mistake. It won't stop the runaway arguments for still more regulation, and in the lingo of think-tank eggheads, it hurts the very people it is intended to help.
[/quote]

This part kills me...you forget we OWN most of the fucking banks out there so in essence getting raped with overdraft charges means we are getting screwed twice. The worse part is the banks never say thx for the screw either

 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: Ausm
This part kills me...you forget we OWN most of the fucking banks out there so in essence getting raped with overdraft charges means we are getting screwed twice. The worse part is the banks never say thx for the screw either
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

call them up and tell them you don't want overdraft. My last bank disabled it for me.

IMO, it should be the other way around. People should have to opt IN to the service not out of it. I also think that reordering transactions that just so happens to maximize the fees the bank charges is a bunch of bullshit. They are charging fees based on the number of transactions that had insufficient funds so exactly how is it not fraud to rearrange those transactions? Regardless of how many times a person uses his debit card in a days time, if the last transaction overdraws him he should be hit with one fee.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Ausm
This part kills me...you forget we OWN most of the fucking banks out there so in essence getting raped with overdraft charges means we are getting screwed twice. The worse part is the banks never say thx for the screw either
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

I don't understand how its not currently considered fraud.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,061
8,351
136
Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.

They should -

After all, it's personal responsibility to look after your own funds.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I suppose technically speaking what should happen is either the overdraft fees are reduced down or it becomes impossible to overdraft on accounts. I personally wish I could not overdraft, my bank has told me plainly that it is impossible to put that lock on my account to restrict overdrafts as I found out a couple days ago. Closest I could come was if I start the day negative they'll not allow anymore to go through, but even with debits during the day although my account is being hit real-time by those debit transactions they still cannot put a freeze if I hit $0.

A responsible adult should be given the option to either a) take whatever overdraft the bank wants or b) make it so that it's impossible to overdraft--and in turn pay for any bounced check fees from vendors.

I appear to be overdrafting every several years. I've done it once or twice since 2001, but I ended up getting a waive on both (I am not positive I did it that second time). It is the fault of the person, but banks are being underhanded with how they do it, like the ordering of debits.

What a ridiculous article. He wants (basically) 500% interest charged on a loan that the customer is not explicitly authorizing
Not explicit, but it is tacit by virtue of their behavior.
 

Praxis1452

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,197
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I am not against overdraft fee's. I just dislike how some of them are applied. I think it is bunk after the first check each subsequent check is nailed. If the bank was truely worried about their money situation why not turn the check back and let the merchant deal with it? All they are looking for is cheap money under the guise of a penalty.

I also think it is a bunch of shit when they get a series of checks and cash the biggest one first and nails every small one with an overdraft.

I dont say lower the fee's. Just reform how much a bank can take people to the cleaners over an overdraft.

And if it was upto me, I'd outlaw debit cards. What a god damn scam. We will give you a card that acts like a credit card in every which way except the way it matters most. The ability to recitfy your statement to a receipt before any of your money exchanges hands with the bank.
Why shouldn't banks look for easy money from stupid or careless people? After all, it's easy, and only penalizes those that pay no attention to the money in their account.

I don't think overdraft fees should be increased heavily or be pushed down. Just let the bank do its job. Perhaps some plans will offer smaller overdraft fees while others offer higher overdraft fees but some other benefits.

Also debit cards are convenient. I mean if you pay in cash, once you've given money to them, you're done and there might not be a transaction history depending on the deal. Debit cards are easier to carry to than a bunch of cash. I mean I hate having change so I carry like 3 $20 and debit card and use my debit card everywhere I can.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.
Checks != Debit Card

The account balance tied to debit card can be checked at time of use. If there isn't sufficient funds, the transaction should be automatically denied or have to be confirmed by the card owner.
 

James Bond

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2005
6,023
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

Uhh, serious? What is so "pathetic" about that? People make mistakes all the time.

I have several checking accounts, some with the same banks. I, personally, have written a check from the wrong checkbook and realized later.

Why don't you step outside for a change and relax.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Also debit cards are convenient. I mean if you pay in cash, once you've given money to them, you're done and there might not be a transaction history depending on the deal. Debit cards are easier to carry to than a bunch of cash. I mean I hate having change so I carry like 3 $20 and debit card and use my debit card everywhere I can

Credit cards serve the same purpose except you have the ability to look at a statement at the end of the month and fight an unwanted charge. If a merchant messes up and double charges your debit card, you wont know until you check your balance or worse overdraft. Then it is on you to get your money back.

With everybody taking credit cards. I honestly dont know why anybody would bother with a debit card. The only purpose I see is if people need to pull cash from an ATM. But again so many banks ding you with a 1-2 dollar charge. And since most ATM transactions are 20-40 bucks we are talking 2.5-10% fee to take out on your own money lol.

Whoever thought up a debit card is pure genius. The ultimate fee card for the banks.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Ummm, no. One of the dumbest ideas I've heard in a long time. Right up there with "cut taxes for the wealthy/trickle-down Reaganomics".
explain.
are you encouraging poeple to spend more than what they have?
or we need more govt intervention?
Nobody is advocating such a thing. Banks reorder credits and debits such that it causes overdrafts.
Exactly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Daily transactions are ordered from largest to smallest, to maximize the number of overdraft fees on a given day.

Pending authorizations are counted instantaneously against your balance, while deposits (even cash deposits) take up to 24 hours to count towards your balance.

Banks can't be trusted to do the honest thing.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,459
527
126
It's the reordering that should be illegal.

If I make a cash deposit to cover my checks, then they get presented....so I should be good.

But if the bank changes it so the checks deducted first then the deposit credited how is that fair, legal or right?
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Originally posted by: James Bond
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

Uhh, serious? What is so "pathetic" about that? People make mistakes all the time.

I have several checking accounts, some with the same banks. I, personally, have written a check from the wrong checkbook and realized later.

Why don't you step outside for a change and relax.

he's either got something personal against me, or a huge splintery stick up his ass.
 
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