why we should increase overdraft fees

[0marTheZealot]

My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first. Imagine the following scenario:

You have 50 dollars in your account and you deposit a 500 dollar check. You then go out and spend 300 dollars. You can overdraft multiple times because the bank will play tricks with the order. First, they can not make all the money from your deposit available. That means while you thought you deposited 500 dollars, they only made the first 100 available. This can go on for up to 2 days for a local check and even longer for a non-local check. So now, you only have 150 dollars available even though you should have 500 dollars available. Then, they'll process the largest debit first so they can ding you multiple times with OD fees. It's a dirty process.

Most people fall under this category. They thought they had enough money, but because the way the banks process your money, you can be technically short of money when in reality you aren't short of money.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Also debit cards are convenient. I mean if you pay in cash, once you've given money to them, you're done and there might not be a transaction history depending on the deal. Debit cards are easier to carry to than a bunch of cash. I mean I hate having change so I carry like 3 $20 and debit card and use my debit card everywhere I can

Credit cards serve the same purpose except you have the ability to look at a statement at the end of the month and fight an unwanted charge. If a merchant messes up and double charges your debit card, you wont know until you check your balance or worse overdraft. Then it is on you to get your money back.

With everybody taking credit cards. I honestly dont know why anybody would bother with a debit card. The only purpose I see is if people need to pull cash from an ATM. But again so many banks ding you with a 1-2 dollar charge. And since most ATM transactions are 20-40 bucks we are talking 2.5-10% fee to take out on your own money lol.

Whoever thought up a debit card is pure genius. The ultimate fee card for the banks.

Couldn't agree with you more.

With credits cards you are protected against fraud with either $50 liability or in most cases $0. And that is money that the CC company has paid out & is asking you to pay. Your money is still in your bank.

With debit card fraud the money is gone from your bank and now you are running around trying to get the money back - if the bank wants to pay you as, so far as I understand, they are not obliged to under the law unlike credit cards. Even if they do pay you it may take a few weeks before you see your money.

I never ever use a debit card and I make it a point to withdraw money only from places which do not charge fees. Mostly its the bank ATM itself or at Wawa.

I would rather carry cash than use a debit card if I had to.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: James Bond

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

Uhh, serious? What is so "pathetic" about that? People make mistakes all the time.

I have several checking accounts, some with the same banks. I, personally, have written a check from the wrong checkbook and realized later.

Why don't you step outside for a change and relax.

he's either got something personal against me, or a huge splintery stick up his ass.

Shooom!

You can't take MB at face value! There's always an underlying message.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: her209
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

This.

I think this is what people are referring to, in case some of you haven't figured it out:


Account balance: $50.
2pm. Go to bank, deposit $100 cash at a teller.

5pm get $10 in gas for the lawnmower, use debit card
6pm $5 for a 6-pack at the convenience store to have a beer or two after mowing lawn
7pm spend $70 at the grocery store
8pm 15 dollars in gas on the way home

Next day: bank does this:
sees all 5 of those transactions.
debits account $70 first, putting the account into over draft. $30 fee
$10 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$5 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$25 goes into overdraft $30 fee

$100 credited to account

You look at your account balance, expecting to still see $50 in there.
Instead, you discover that you now owe the bank $70

 

[piasabird]

What we really need is to make banks cash the checks in the order that they receive them.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I am not against overdraft fee's. I just dislike how some of them are applied. I think it is bunk after the first check each subsequent check is nailed. If the bank was truely worried about their money situation why not turn the check back and let the merchant deal with it? All they are looking for is cheap money under the guise of a penalty.

I also think it is a bunch of shit when they get a series of checks and cash the biggest one first and nails every small one with an overdraft.

I dont say lower the fee's. Just reform how much a bank can take people to the cleaners over an overdraft.

And if it was upto me, I'd outlaw debit cards. What a god damn scam. We will give you a card that acts like a credit card in every which way except the way it matters most. The ability to recitfy your statement to a receipt before any of your money exchanges hands with the bank.

I prefer it this way. If Im going to have checks returned Id rather they not be for rent/mortgaqge/car payment. But thats just me.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.

Yep. No money no payment.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: her209
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

This.

I think this is what people are referring to, in case some of you haven't figured it out:


Account balance: $50.
2pm. Go to bank, deposit $100 cash at a teller.

5pm get $10 in gas for the lawnmower, use debit card
6pm $5 for a 6-pack at the convenience store to have a beer or two after mowing lawn
7pm spend $70 at the grocery store
8pm 15 dollars in gas on the way home

Next day: bank does this:
sees all 5 of those transactions.
debits account $70 first, putting the account into over draft. $30 fee
$10 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$5 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$25 goes into overdraft $30 fee

$100 credited to account

You look at your account balance, expecting to still see $50 in there.
Instead, you discover that you now owe the bank $70

Thank you sir for posting truth, facts and sticking up for the common man.

Fuck all you assholes defending the banks

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Fucking Liar, the banks will not change their nefarious use of computer programming just for your sorry little ass.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Fucking Liar, the banks will not change their nefarious use of computer programming just for your sorry little ass.

Wanna put a $1000 paypal bet on it?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.

Yep. No money no payment.

I would LOVE to know what percentage of overdraft fees occur on checks. My guess? Not that many. It's amazing that banks are so nice to you as to provide this service. In fact until they were threatened with legislation some of the largest banks in the US (BOA for one) were so nice that they wouldn't let you opt out of it even if you asked! I'm sure it wasn't because they made a killing off of screwing their customers, it was probably because they were just looking out for the little guy.

Any time your bank is charging you 500%+ interest without your express consent, you should have to sign up for that service. Period.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.

Yep. No money no payment.

I would LOVE to know what percentage of overdraft fees occur on checks. My guess? Not that many. It's amazing that banks are so nice to you as to provide this service. In fact until they were threatened with legislation some of the largest banks in the US (BOA for one) were so nice that they wouldn't let you opt out of it even if you asked! I'm sure it wasn't because they made a killing off of screwing their customers, it was probably because they were just looking out for the little guy.

Any time your bank is charging you 500%+ interest without your express consent, you should have to sign up for that service. Period.

I think check vs debit is irrelevant. And I agree-you should be able to opt out of overdraft and just let the bank return everything that your account wont cover.

 

[Lepard]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: her209
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

This.

I think this is what people are referring to, in case some of you haven't figured it out:


Account balance: $50.
2pm. Go to bank, deposit $100 cash at a teller.

5pm get $10 in gas for the lawnmower, use debit card
6pm $5 for a 6-pack at the convenience store to have a beer or two after mowing lawn
7pm spend $70 at the grocery store
8pm 15 dollars in gas on the way home

Next day: bank does this:
sees all 5 of those transactions.
debits account $70 first, putting the account into over draft. $30 fee
$10 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$5 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$25 goes into overdraft $30 fee

$100 credited to account

You look at your account balance, expecting to still see $50 in there.
Instead, you discover that you now owe the bank $70

Who do you bank with that CASH is not available immediately?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452

Originally posted by: Genx87
I am not against overdraft fee's. I just dislike how some of them are applied. I think it is bunk after the first check each subsequent check is nailed. If the bank was truely worried about their money situation why not turn the check back and let the merchant deal with it? All they are looking for is cheap money under the guise of a penalty.

I also think it is a bunch of shit when they get a series of checks and cash the biggest one first and nails every small one with an overdraft.

I dont say lower the fee's. Just reform how much a bank can take people to the cleaners over an overdraft.

And if it was upto me, I'd outlaw debit cards. What a god damn scam. We will give you a card that acts like a credit card in every which way except the way it matters most. The ability to recitfy your statement to a receipt before any of your money exchanges hands with the bank.

Why shouldn't banks look for easy money from stupid or careless people? After all, it's easy, and only penalizes those that pay no attention to the money in their account.

I don't think overdraft fees should be increased heavily or be pushed down. Just let the bank do its job. Perhaps some plans will offer smaller overdraft fees while others offer higher overdraft fees but some other benefits.

Also debit cards are convenient. I mean if you pay in cash, once you've given money to them, you're done and there might not be a transaction history depending on the deal. Debit cards are easier to carry to than a bunch of cash. I mean I hate having change so I carry like 3 $20 and debit card and use my debit card everywhere I can.

Why shouldn't banks prey upon the stupidity of people?

Give me a fucking break...

Do you have no moral compass whatsoever?

fucking internet narcissists

 

[CitizenKain]

An important lesson for anything dealing with banks. Stick with regional banks or credit unions. The satisfaction of using an ATM 800 miles away from home and saving 2 bucks is reduced the first time you get on the wrong end their processing times and eat an NSF fee.

The reason banks tend to process debits in order of size is generally due to the reasoning that most people would rather bounce a check for a small thing rather then a car or house payment (if you don't have that automatically drawn that is). However, it also turned out this worked in their favor really well, as a lot of people will run a low balance and write a string of checks, turning a 10 dollar movie rental into a 35 dollar fee.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: her209
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

This.

I think this is what people are referring to, in case some of you haven't figured it out:


Account balance: $50.

5pm get $10 in gas for the lawnmower, use debit card
6pm $5 for a 6-pack at the convenience store to have a beer or two after mowing lawn
7pm 15 dollars in gas on the way home
8pm spend $70 at the grocery store


Next day: bank does this:
sees all 5 of those transactions.
debits account $70 first, putting the account into over draft. $30 fee
$10 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$5 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$25 goes into overdraft $30 fee


You look at your account balance, freaking out because you realize you forgot to deposit the $100. You expect to see the $70 put your account $50 into overdraft, and expect to see a $30 overdraft fee, making you owe the bank $80. Instead, you find that you owe the bank a hell of a lot more than that.

Who do you bank with that CASH is not available immediately?

It's never mattered to me, but I recall seeing signs that say "deposits received after 2pm credited the next day.

Nonetheless, let's suppose a customer DOES make a mistake. I removed the deposit from the above example. That's exactly what banks are doing. The only thing that should have gone into overdraft is the $70 spent at the store. Instead, the bank rearranges the order of the debits so that it can charge the fee 4 times instead of just once.

Read through the revised example above. I have absolutely no problem with banks that charge a fee to someone who pays something 3 days before a deposit, or 2 days, or even 1 day before the deposit. But rearranging the order of debits intentionally so that they can maximize the amount that they penalize customers ought to be criminal.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: James Bond

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

Uhh, serious? What is so "pathetic" about that? People make mistakes all the time.

I have several checking accounts, some with the same banks. I, personally, have written a check from the wrong checkbook and realized later.

Why don't you step outside for a change and relax.

he's either got something personal against me, or a huge splintery stick up his ass.

Shooom!

You can't take MB at face value! There's always an underlying message.

Probably not much of a message if nobody gets it, I guess. The OP is critiquing a critic of congress regarding their criticism of banks so I thought the world should see the value of my two cents. I felt that with such great examples I should be as critical as I could. I mean, after all, isn't the whole point just to bitch in your moment in the sun. And who on earth would listen to some crap like, maybe the banks should charge the customer what it costs them in reality to handle the overdraft instead of acting like spiders feeding on flies. That way you wouldn't get off free for not paying the kind of attention you should, but you wouldn't also be getting used. People who have to pay stiff fines for over-drafting should close their accounts and see just how fast the charges get waved.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I am not against overdraft fee's. I just dislike how some of them are applied. I think it is bunk after the first check each subsequent check is nailed. If the bank was truely worried about their money situation why not turn the check back and let the merchant deal with it? All they are looking for is cheap money under the guise of a penalty.

I also think it is a bunch of shit when they get a series of checks and cash the biggest one first and nails every small one with an overdraft.

I dont say lower the fee's. Just reform how much a bank can take people to the cleaners over an overdraft.

And if it was upto me, I'd outlaw debit cards. What a god damn scam. We will give you a card that acts like a credit card in every which way except the way it matters most. The ability to recitfy your statement to a receipt before any of your money exchanges hands with the bank.

Yeah that's the part that kind of irks me. I've overdrafted a handful of times on my debit card. After the first time I told them to just set things up so that my card will be declined if I don't have adequate funds in my account instead of overdrafting. Somehow I still managed to overdraft one or two other times, though. Don't understand how the payments were allowed to go through, but whatever.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Which bank and credit union?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Which bank and credit union?

Doubt he will tell.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Yeah that's the part that kind of irks me. I've overdrafted a handful of times on my debit card. After the first time I told them to just set things up so that my card will be declined if I don't have adequate funds in my account instead of overdrafting.

Somehow I still managed to overdraft one or two other times, though.

Don't understand how the payments were allowed to go through, but whatever.

That "but whatever" is the fucking problem.

Thanks for nothing

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Fucking Liar, the banks will not change their nefarious use of computer programming just for your sorry little ass.

Well, actually he's right. I worked as a banker for a couple of years and we used the same major software as most other banks. There are certain flags you can put on and certain tricks you can do to make money available right away. For instance, for bank employees, we would always treat all checks as cash for each other. Executives had real time processing as well, so transactions would happen as you think they would.

It depends on the bank, but for the most part, banks won't change the system for you.

 

[IronWing]

Another issue: Back when overdraft protection was invented, it was tied to a savings or second deposit account of some sort. If you wrote a bad check, but it could be covered from funds in another account, the overdraft protection feature (which one signed up for) would kick in, and the bank would transfer funds from the secondary deposit account. Banks usually charged a fee for this while many credit unions didn't. It wasn't a loan, it was a transfer service. The OP's article implies that folks using overdraft protection are basically stealing money. They are not. If overdraft protection is in place and tied to a savings account then these folks are being charged an outrageous transfer fee. If the overdraft protection is a loan, which I guess is the way modern schemes are setup, then these folks are being charged outrageous interest rates.

I think truth in banking could best be achieved if every bank in America had a big ugly banner hanging in the lobby that stated:

We're not your friend!
We just want your money.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Another issue: Back when overdraft protection was invented, it was tied to a savings or second deposit account of some sort. If you wrote a bad check, but it could be covered from funds in another account, the overdraft protection feature (which one signed up for) would kick in, and the bank would transfer funds from the secondary deposit account. Banks usually charged a fee for this while many credit unions didn't. It wasn't a loan, it was a transfer service. The OP's article implies that folks using overdraft protection are basically stealing money. They are not. If overdraft protection is in place and tied to a savings account then these folks are being charged an outrageous transfer fee. If the overdraft protection is a loan, which I guess is the way modern schemes are setup, then these folks are being charged outrageous interest rates.

I think truth in banking could best be achieved if every bank in America had a big ugly banner hanging in the lobby that stated:

We're not your friend!
We just want your money.

and yet 98 of the fuckers have gone out of business this year alone.

Maybe they should stop being fucking thieves and earn money rather than steal it.