Why Windows 7 is bad

[Nothinman]

I've seen the same issue before. It will stay at the welcome screen for like 10 minutes.

Linux takes 10 seconds from bootup to get to the desktop. Windows has improved though, but it's still not as fast and efficient as Linux. Windows 2000 was probably the most efficient windows OS though, it was nice and lightweight. Then XP came around and things went downhill from there. XP is only good now because hardware caught up but it was brutal when it was released.

That said, the issue with windows is it loves to disk thrash. Probably because it's a swap file whore no matter how much ram there actually is. A SSD makes a HUGE difference.

I've seen Windows sit at applying settings too, but never on a non-broken setup. Linux isn't a valid comparison as it doesn't have the same level of domain membership as Windows and things like GPOs don't apply.

Windows does seem more I/O constrained than other OSes, but it has nothing to do with the pagefile and isn't in any way related to the hyperbole cheez keeps throwing out here.

Moreover, by default guess what, boot into recovery and run the command "resetpassword" and...well, you're able to log in to that mac. Great security, no?

So? With physical access the only thing that will help is encryption with a large key and good passphrase. Windows may not provide recovery that simple out of the box, but I can boot a Windows PC to a USB stick and blank the admin password in virtually the same amount of time.

 

[Minerva]

Here is why.

You join a Windows 7 PC to a domain in the network and logon to it..... it takes freakin 20 minutes before I can get to the desktop. I was able to reproduce the same problem with any new Windows 7 PC's. It dun't matter 64bit or 32bit. Just plain slow.


Windows XP in contrast, and with Intel Pentium Prescott processor with 512MB of ram, takes about 1 minute to login in the same manner as above. In other words, Windows XP blows the doors off Windows 7 no questions.


In more contrast, I brought a Server 2003 machine and joined to the domain and logon... it took JAW DROPPING 25 SEC!!!! That's the speed of thunder.


I bet Windows 2000 might even be faster.


The older the OS the faster it gets. I wonder what would happen with Windows 8 or 9 or 10. With Windows 15 it would take a year to make it to the desktop when logging on after joining to the domain.... Serious problem.

It's hurting our production environment. Very serious matter.


cheez

Win7 is fine. It *is* the next XP. 8 reinforces this fact in the workforce. Just because you or whomever set up your DC has not a clue how to properly set up DNS does not mean the OS is technically inadequate when you have to bitch about ID10T errors...

 

[cheez]

Sounds like whoever is running the domain you are joining doesn't know how to apply group policies and startup scripts properly.

The domain here is fine and dandy. It's the Windows 7 that is junk. It's a brand new Optiplex Dell PC. Windows 7, SOOOoooooo SLOW.

I have never seen a Win7 machine take that long to log onto a domain account.

I have seen one that took record breaking over 30 minutes to logon to desktop after joining to domain.

Something is seriously wrong with your setup.

It's not my PC. These are work PC's that are new, which came with Windows 7. Oh my own Server 2003 PC is ALWAYS FAST no matter what I do with it. Fast as thunder. I go around brag about it to all people I talk to. ^_^

I've seen the same issue before. It will stay at the welcome screen for like 10 minutes.

Glad to see I am not the only one.:\

You almost need to let it sit for 10 minutes before even trying to open a program. God forbid if you try to open Outlook. May as well go order breakfast or something.

LOL I either go take a leak or jump onto next project or ticket.. it's not worth waiting that long on a stupid PC... Don't get me wrong, WinXP slows down too after some long extensive use. But most Windows XP systems I manage here are F-A-S-T cause I tweak them and make them run efficiently with i3 Core systems. My clients thank me because their systems run pretty fast for XP. I tell ya they blow the doors off Windows 7 machines when it comes to things like logging on and especially SEARCHING stuff over the network. Windows 7 is the slowest on planet earth. If it can't find something it will take 15 minutes before it returns with an error saying it can't find the damn thing. You can't make additional search over the network before the first one is done. Meaning you gotta wait FREAKIN 10~ 15 minutes to search next one. That is completely retarded. THis is why I bring my own Server 2003 PC to work for some serious speed and productivity. Like I said, it's fast as thunder.


cheez

 

[cheez]

Agreed. The only time I have ever seen a Windows desktop of any variety take more than a minute to boot to the desktop is when it is 1) full of viruses, 2) loading a ton of startup software that didn't really need to be there, 3) on an improperly configured domain, or 4) damaged/failing hardware.

A lot of our systems have failing hardware such as capacitors going bad. Even with 512MB of RAM with failing capacitors they still rape the Windows 7 systems when logging in after the domain has been joined. There is no comparison. Heck, even the WinXP systems that's been running for many years that has never gone through a reinstall of OS, are still faster than the brand new Windows 7 systems with i5 core. It's looking / checking for *something* that is not needed when joining the domain. There's a very high activity in the hard drive but I suspect it's checking through the network for something. These are brand new PC's. It's a design problem with Windows 7. That's what happens when you have fancy features...

How come the OP is actually doing remote tech support?

What's remote tech support have anything to do with me whining about Windows 7 being slow? Make up your mind...


cheez

 

[cheez]

Win7 is fine. It *is* the next XP. 8 reinforces this fact in the workforce. Just because you or whomever set up your DC has not a clue how to properly set up DNS does not mean the OS is technically inadequate when you have to bitch about ID10T errors...

The DNS setting is fine on the server side. I see you are just trying to come up with excuses to defend Windows 7.

Seriously, Windows 7 appears to be searching or caching for something when logging on after the domain has been joined. It takes anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 min which is completely retarded. It's a design problem with the Windows 7 that's what. WinXP with an 8 year old hardware and processor is still 30 times faster than a BRAND NEW PC (i5 core) with Windows 7... Maybe you don't work in production environment or business environment. Home users would have no clue.


cheez

 

[Sheep221]

A lot of our systems have failing hardware such as capacitors going bad. Even with 512MB of RAM with failing capacitors it still rapes the Windows 7 system when logging in after the domain has been joined. There is no comparison. Heck, even a WinXP system that's been running for many years that has never gone through a reinstall of OS, is still faster than a brand new Windows 7 systems with i5 core. It's looking / checking for something that is not needed when joining the domain. I see that hard drive cranking up like mad so it's doing something. These are brand new PC's. It's a design problem with Windows 7. That's what happens when you have fancy features...


What's remote tech support have anything to do with me whining about Windows 7 being slow? Make up your mind...


cheez

Windows 7 is technically best tweaked and designed version so far, the XP was good but it took long time before it was actually reliable, same with Vista. I even installed Win 7 on some old computers from XP era and it worked even better than XP.
It is true that windows tends to swap alot or boot long, if you install too many programs and expect them to run just like that with startup. But otherwise it runs fine, give it at least 4 gigs of RAM and 60 gigs of disk space and you will be fine. Yes installing crap programs will make the system freeze, delay booting and become stuck on some control panel changes but no one of it, happens natively in freshly installed and carefully equipped system.

There has to be something with computers in your job or you must be lacking the basics, because I don't believe that Windows 7 was ever a bad OS, it just worked for me out of the box for everyone, unlike vista, XP and earlier.

 

[ControlD]

Seriously, Windows 7 appears to be searching or caching for something when logging on after the domain has been joined. It takes anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 min which is completely retarded. It's a design problem with the Windows 7 that's what. WinXP with an 8 year old hardware and processor is still 30 times faster than a BRAND NEW PC (i5 core) with Windows 7... Maybe you don't work in production environment or business environment. Home users would have no clue.


cheez

You can't honestly think this is normal behavior for Windows 7 or any other operating system can you? There isn't a business in the world that would accept every user losing 10-30 minutes of productivity every time they have to log into the domain. Sounds like you have a good opportunity to make a name for yourself at your company. Figure out what the problem is on the server side and profit.

 

[cheez]

Windows 7 is technically best tweaked and designed version so far, the XP was good but it took long time before it was actually reliable, same with Vista. I even installed Win 7 on some old computers from XP era and it worked even better than XP.
It is true that windows tends to swap alot or boot long, if you install too many programs and expect them to run just like that with startup. But otherwise it runs fine, give it at least 4 gigs of RAM and 60 gigs of disk space and you will be fine. Yes installing crap programs will make the system freeze, delay booting and become stuck on some control panel changes but no one of it, happens natively in freshly installed and carefully equipped system.

There has to be something with computers in your job or you must be lacking the basics, because I don't believe that Windows 7 was ever a bad OS, it just worked for me out of the box for everyone, unlike vista, XP and earlier.

I have no startup items. I only have a few programs installed on these PC's. Even most of 4GB ram is not used.

This only happens right after joining to the domain. You logon to PC the first time it takes 25~ 30 minutes to see the desktop. Log off and log back in it takes a minute. Log in as another user it takes a minute or less. With Windows XP is blazing fast whether you login for the first time or not after joining to domain. That's what I call speed of warp 2. Is that faster than speed of light? :scratches my head: In other words, the login time is consistent and reliable.


cheez

 

[cheez]

You can't honestly think this is normal behavior for Windows 7 or any other operating system can you? There isn't a business in the world that would accept every user losing 10-30 minutes of productivity every time they have to log into the domain. Sounds like you have a good opportunity to make a name for yourself at your company. Figure out what the problem is on the server side and profit.

I was responding to the other guy when you replied. Please read it. It will answer your question.



Oh I remember this, laptops had the same issue too when logging in for the first time after joining the domain. That took good 20~ 25 minutes or so. So it's not only for desktops but laptops too.

cheez

 

[cheez]

And it's not antivirus program pushed out by server either. Because when you move PC back to WORKGROUP and re-join to the domain, SAME PROBLEM OCCURS. Gotta wait 20~ 30 minutes to logon.... after that, it's normal speed. Usually takes less than a minute to login by any users.


cheez

 

[Fardringle]

And again, it's something wrong with the setup at your location since this does not happen anywhere else (except perhaps to RedSquirrel).

I just tested it just so I could say that I did even though I already knew what would happen. I removed two Windows 7 Professional machines (one desktop and one laptop) from the domain. Rebooted them, then added them back to the domain. I did them separately so I could time them. The desktop (an i7 with a regular SATA drive) took 28 seconds to get from the BIOS splash screen to the desktop immediately after joining the domain. The laptop (an i5 with an SSD drive) took 16 seconds.

 

[cheez]

And again, it's something wrong with the setup at your location since this does not happen anywhere else (except perhaps to RedSquirrel).

I just tested it just so I could say that I did even though I already knew what would happen. I removed two Windows 7 Professional machines (one desktop and one laptop) from the domain. Rebooted them, then added them back to the domain. I did them separately so I could time them. The desktop (an i7 with a regular SATA drive) took 28 seconds to get from the BIOS splash screen to the desktop immediately after joining the domain. The laptop (an i5 with an SSD drive) took 16 seconds.

Straight from boot screen to desktop? OMG you don't have user login setup with password? Your setup is more simplified.

And maybe your domain is setup differently or is very small. You have a small network? The PC will behave differently depending on the environment. Just because you have Windows 7 at your work doesn't mean it will have to work the same over here. It's not a problem with Windows XP and Server 2003. Windows 7 has issues.


cheez

 

[cheez]

With Windows 7 when you go to My Computer and go to any one of the network drives it does what it appear to be caching? You'll see progress bar on the explorer window at the top. It takes FOREVER to complete. You can then access the network drive. When I say "FOREVER" I was using a little bit of exaggeration. It takes long enough.

With Windows XP it's LIGHTNING FAST. You have access to network drives INSTANTLY. There's virtually ZERO wait time. Same goes true for Server 2003 reign-champ OS.


Windows 7 is really bad for productivity. It's like 25 years behind in speed.

The ONLY time when Windows 7 is fast is when transferring large files over the network. It's 90% faster than WinXP BUT...... not faster than Server 2003. They are close.


Seriously, 25 years behind. I wouldn't go with Windows 7 even if someone pay me $500 and beg me to use it... I'm going to uninstall Windows 7 on my home PC.


cheez

 

[stlcardinals]

The long boot times have been explained to you. This is for anyone else that stumbles upon this thread from googling so that some help might be offered to you.

1. DNS Problems - Misconfigured DNS servers, Old DNS servers not removed from Active Directory, DHCP misconfigured

2. Group Policy Processing - Group Policies are processed at login, an improperly sized server can easily get bogged down by Group Policies with a lot of settings configured.

3. Startup scripts - They are processed at login also and depending on how well they are written, an incorrect item can be holding up the process by waiting for it to time out.

This is Windows Server Admin 101

 

[ultimatebob]

Why do I get the feeling this will morph into a rant about Windows Server 2003 and/or a $10,000 ethernet cable?

I love my $10,000 Ethernet cable. It really brings out the warmth and the brightness of the data that I'm sending across the network. It makes my PowerPoint presentations Pop!

You poor people with your $5 Monoprice cables don't know what you're missing.

 

[cheez]

1. DNS Problems - Misconfigured DNS servers, Old DNS servers not removed from Active Directory, DHCP misconfigured

Our network administrator already removed old DNS servers from AD. It is part of task that we do to ensure smooth traffic. DHCP on the server is configured properly. It is a big company and we have to make sure everything is done right and setup to perform most efficiently and reliably. You want to call him and have a chat? I can give you his number.

2. Group Policy Processing

- Group Policies are processed at login, an improperly sized server can easily get bogged down by Group Policies with a lot of settings configured.

The one I tried is my own account, belongs to I.T. group container. It is actually simplified. There's nothing holding back. If this is an issue Windows XP machine would suffer to then but they don't.

3. Startup scripts

- They are processed at login also and depending on how well they are written, an incorrect item can be holding up the process by waiting for it to time out.

Negative. I only have a few network drives assigned in the logon scripts, and they are correctly written. I have nothing else for startup scripts.

Your recommendation applies for general stuff. We have already gone through that and ironed out a long time ago. Only the problem occurs when using Windows 7 PC.... by logging on for the first time after joining domain. Next time I will take lunch while the stupid PC gets done loading desktop. There is a thing so-called "use time wisely".

I love my $10,000 Ethernet cable. It really brings out the warmth and the brightness of the data that I'm sending across the network. It makes my PowerPoint presentations Pop!

You poor people with your $5 Monoprice cables don't know what you're missing.

Please stay on topic guys. If you want to talk about cables come see me at youtube. I can deal with all ya.

But this is strictly for WindoZ Operating system 7 in particular...


cheez

 

[Fardringle]

Straight from boot screen to desktop? OMG you don't have user login setup with password? Your setup is more simplified.

And maybe your domain is setup differently or is very small. You have a small network? The PC will behave differently depending on the environment. Just because you have Windows 7 at your work doesn't mean it will have to work the same over here. It's not a problem with Windows XP and Server 2003. Windows 7 has issues.
cheez

I used this little beauty to automate the login for this test just so I could get an accurate timing. Including time for a human to type the password would add another few seconds (or a minute, if they are a slow typist) but it still easily disproves your "fact" that all Windows 7 machines have this problem when it is clearly a problem with something at your company and not with Windows 7 itself. If it was an inherent Windows 7 problem, it would happen to everyone, but it doesn't.

 

[Minerva]

The DNS setting is fine on the server side. I see you are just trying to come up with excuses to defend Windows 7.

Seriously, Windows 7 appears to be searching or caching for something when logging on after the domain has been joined. It takes anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 min which is completely retarded. It's a design problem with the Windows 7 that's what. WinXP with an 8 year old hardware and processor is still 30 times faster than a BRAND NEW PC (i5 core) with Windows 7... Maybe you don't work in production environment or business environment. Home users would have no clue.


cheez

Instead of guessing and throwing terms why not take the time to hit up technet and learn some fundamentals. You may actually get more respect around here.

Windows 7 is fine, been using it since 2009 in 2003/2003R2/2008/2008R2 forests with as little as ten members and as many as 40k nodes across the world! Logging into a properly configured domain environment is no slower than local.

2003 server is seriously EOL product as XP which it's based on. Time to upgrade to at least 2008R2.

 

[Mek.]

I wonder how many teamkills you would rack up in a FPS match.

 

[Sheep221]

You know what, you should fix the issue, not come up with it on public forums and trying to defend your laziness bashing windows 7 and claiming your hardware and network setup is working well, it certainly is not when you have problem with domains on computer running windows 7. You should stand up and research and fix the issue, if you are not able to, ask someone else to do that. Waiting 20-30 mins at login is ridiculous. If no one at the company can do that, you can still ask tech support providers or microsoft itself, to assist with the issue. Hiring third parties is costly, but it is better option than waste 30 mins at boot.

 

[Zxian]

And maybe your domain is setup differently or is very small. You have a small network? The PC will behave differently depending on the environment. Just because you have Windows 7 at your work doesn't mean it will have to work the same over here. It's not a problem with Windows XP and Server 2003. Windows 7 has issues.

Maybe his domain is setup properly! You keep denying this instead of taking it into consideration. Nothing you do could possibly be done wrong. /sarcasm

I haven't put a stopwatch to it, but my system boots to the desktop in less time than it takes me to get a glass of water from the kitchen. Win7, 2008R2 domain, wait for network enabled in the GPOs (to ensure mapped network drive connectivity), and a few other small startup scripts. The longest delay happens when waiting for the NIC to actually connect. Without the wait for network GPO, I'd get to the desktop before my network connection was active.

Enjoy your security holes with XP and 2003 too!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Speaking of win 7, is there a way to improve it's performance inside a VM? Should I be using raid 10 instead of raid 5 for the virtual disk's location? Been wanting to play with win7 more but it's BLOODY SLOW in a VM. It's 10x faster on the bare metal hardware. I'm sure there must be something I can tweak somewhere. The virtual disk is accessed via NFS. I can saturate my gigabit link with file transfers on that file system so I don't think the bottleneck is IO.

Windows installs seem funny though. One install can be bloody slow, the next can be super fast. When I first installed Win7 on this machine I had the issue where it sits at the welcome screen forever. I switched to Linux (not because of that, just because I wanted to for a while and finally did it) and in the process I fubared the win7 install as I wanted to dual boot. Ended up reinstalling it from scratch on a separate drive. Now it boots almost instantly. Maybe I just need to reinstall the one in my VM? lol

 

[Fardringle]

Some hardware is designed specifically to provide resources to virtual machines. Without those optimizations, it's normal for a VM to be slower (especially with games and resource intensive applications) than a native OS since the VM doesn't really have access to the hardware.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe with all the vm's they only have a set amount of storage for things like internet cache. The more it fills up the less swap space there is. Things like E-mail or whatever could fill up the space allotted for storage.

I wonder if you could get the VM to start before you get to work. That way it would be on when you get there. Maybe everyone starts up at once.