Why won't Nintendo discount the Wii U?

[Sonikku]

I'd like to give the Wii U a try for Bayonetta 2 and Star Fox/Smash Bros. but the price just seems so completely not worth it. (Considering the software seemingly never goes down from $60, a pricey one-two punch for new buyers) I'm especially wary with the NX on the horizon and the U likely to be marginalized in the near future. $300 doesn't seem nearly worth it for such old hardware.

So what could Nintendo be thinking? Xbox and PS4 both seem like better values and they're still competing harder than hell for your dollar. Nintendo in contrast seems to be asleep. I got a brand new PS4 on black friday last year for $245 out of the door. I can't imagine anyone choosing the U this gen for three Benjamins. Yeah yeah, "If you don't like it for the price, don't buy it". But I'm just trying to figure out the rationale Nintendo has these days.

 

[Skel]

The only reason the price doesn't change is because Nintendo is still making enough sales at that price. I'm sure if people weren't out there paying for it at the current price they would do something.

Having said that, I've personally never really understood why people buy into Nintendo at this stage of the game. It really looks like (I don't own one nor do I really plan on it so I could be totally wrong here) the game line up isn't all that great. From what I've heard (and seen, Amazon only has 7 titles listed as "Coming Soon") it doesn't look like it's really going to change on this console's lifecycle either, so why people are still buying enough of it to keep Nintendo happy enough to keep things where they are I couldn't tell you. Of course I should also point out that I kind of feel burned by the Wii. I bought into it thinking it was going to be this awesome gaming console that played differently and would have tons of interesting titles. What I got was a interesting console that didn't get titles and got less and less interesting as time went on. After that, I'm waiting until Nintendo gets a console that has more than a couple of games released here and there...

 

[shortylickens]

Supply, Demand, Equilibrium.
Apparently the units are selling just well enough they dont need to reduce its price, yet.

But I agree its not a good deal right now. They still dont have an original Mario or Zelda game. Mario Kart is fun but probably not worth 60 bucks to most people. The new Smash Bros. is basically the same as the others. They dont have an original Metroid title yet, they lost some good franchises over the years like Castlevania and Final Fantasy.
No Pokemon game.

I dont know what their plan is to keep the thing going.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I wouldn't necessarily use economics to explain this, Nintendo sort of operates in their own world. I'd expect to see some economics break into it around the holidays though, and maybe a permanent price drop next spring. But I think shorty running it down like that kills any interest I had in getting one myself.

 

[Sonikku]

Supply, Demand, Equilibrium.
Apparently the units are selling just well enough they dont need to reduce its price, yet.

It's selling worse than the Dreamcast.

 

[Sulaco]

It's selling worse than the Dreamcast.

Nintendo is also not Sega ala 2001, and not in anywhere near the same situation.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's selling worse than the Dreamcast.

Which is good news if you want a cheap Wii U. Nintendo can only be stubborn for so long, eventually it costs money to keep all these consoles on the shelf. When the NX hits if there is a glut because of Nintendo stubbornness get ready for $150 Wii Us.

 

[SaurusX]

I just bought a used on WiiU off Craigslist this past weekend. The Super Mario Bros U package complete in box for $200. Seemed worth it since I'm interested in playing 10 or so games that are exclusive to the system.

 

[Sonikku]

I might consider a preowned $200 system with game but in my area everyone on craigslist seems to think a used Wii U is even more valuable than a new one you can buy in the store. Lot's of people live in a fantasy world in craigslist apparently.

Nintendo is also not Sega ala 2001, and not in anywhere near the same situation.

I know they can survive on account of the billions they have in the bank to fall back on to keep them afloat. But if you could mitigate some of the damage of this gen, why wouldn't you? I think there's some real room here for the Wii U to find a niche market in people's homes beside their Xbox or Playstation, but for $300 it just seems too much and most of the world agrees.

Which is good news if you want a cheap Wii U. Nintendo can only be stubborn for so long, eventually it costs money to keep all these consoles on the shelf. When the NX hits if there is a glut because of Nintendo stubbornness get ready for $150 Wii Us.

That's probably what I'm going to do and wait. If they keep digging their heels in like this sooner or later Gamestop is just going to get fed up and start discounting the system themselves. Floor space is just too valuable.

 

[Exophase]

I get the feeling that Wii U is just not a very cost effective design. There were rumors that the BOM was around $180 at launch (http://kotaku.com/5900153/rumor-the-wii-u-has-180-worth-of-parts-wont-be-sold-under-300). I could see this - ChipWorks says that the Latte GPU die looked expensive. Despite being so far behind in tech the 40nm Renesas process with eDRAM can't be that cheap given how low volume it is and how much they've struggled. The situation isn't much better with IBM who had to sell their fabs to GF. And then there's controller, which is poor by today's tablet standards but still locked into various component choices.

So probably pretty high initial BOM costs plus lower than usual ability to decrease costs over the lifetime of the console.

Yes Nintendo has cash reserves and could sell at a loss for a while but probably don't want to go this route. The board cares about profits, not just about cash on hand.

These are all probably factors in why Nintendo is pushing NX now.

 

[Sonikku]

I would argue that they could be taking a loss with their games having such a small pool of prospective buyers. Even years old games like Smash Bros could see their sales jump considerably with a hardware price cut. But in any event it seems strange to go so low end when low end is so expensive. At least with the Wii it saved them money.

 

[sweenish]

Supply, Demand, Equilibrium.
Apparently the units are selling just well enough they dont need to reduce its price, yet.

But I agree its not a good deal right now. They still dont have an original Mario or Zelda game. Mario Kart is fun but probably not worth 60 bucks to most people. The new Smash Bros. is basically the same as the others. They dont have an original Metroid title yet, they lost some good franchises over the years like Castlevania and Final Fantasy.
No Pokemon game.

I dont know what their plan is to keep the thing going.

Mario 3D world exists, as does Maker (not what you're going for, I know, but it is a very successful Mario game at least). The home consoles have NEVER had pokemon, so I don't know why that's a ding.

Just wanted to point this out.

 

[Sulaco]

I know they can survive on account of the billions they have in the bank to fall back on to keep them afloat. But if you could mitigate some of the damage of this gen, why wouldn't you? I think there's some real room here for the Wii U to find a niche market in people's homes beside their Xbox or Playstation, but for $300 it just seems too much and most of the world agrees.

I'm with you there.

That was essentially my view even before the announcement of the NX. The writing seemed to be on the wall for the Wii U, and it was going to take a significant price cut to get me interested. That, or a stronger library, which seems more than unlikely at this point.

 

[Lil Frier]

I wonder if it's intentional, in some ways. It could be that if they drop the Wii U in price, then people will buy it and dig into its library. If they kind of eat that, then people could be more likely to get the NX at the end of the year. If they did emulation on Wii U software, that might make even more sense. That's something I would consider, if I were them. Sales of the Wii U could be lost sales/market share for the NX.

 

[Exophase]

I would argue that they could be taking a loss with their games having such a small pool of prospective buyers. Even years old games like Smash Bros could see their sales jump considerably with a hardware price cut. But in any event it seems strange to go so low end when low end is so expensive. At least with the Wii it saved them money.

Maybe they'd see big sales jumps, maybe not. They've probably done market surveys to get some idea of this potential. There may not be as many people like you as you think. One risk is that the people waiting for a price cut are also the people more likely to heavily buy games used, which has a much poorer indirect return for Nintendo.

Gamecube had some very aggressive price cuts, it was dropped to only $99 in 2003, which was half the launch price not even two years later. But its sales didn't pick up that much and its overall lifetime curve was similar to Nintendo's other consoles, including how Wii U has performed so far.

 

[Sonikku]

Sales of the Wii U could be lost sales/market share for the NX.

That's a good theory. If they made a big push for the Wii U now and more people bought it they probably would be far less likely to turn around and buy an NX too. I guess that would be like Sega discounting and trying to get the 32x into gamer's homes at the same time they were about ready to make a big push with the Saturn. Such moves can sour good will and at a point it might be wiser to cut your losses and abandon the one to go all out with the other.

 

[poofyhairguy]

That's probably what I'm going to do and wait. If they keep digging their heels in like this sooner or later Gamestop is just going to get fed up and start discounting the system themselves. Floor space is just too valuable.

Yup. The most reliable concept for discounts in any part of technology is clearance pricing. Very few items sell every unit at full price, and the Wii U isn't one of those items.

 

[shortylickens]

Mario 3D world exists, as does Maker (not what you're going for, I know, but it is a very successful Mario game at least). The home consoles have NEVER had pokemon, so I don't know why that's a ding.

Just wanted to point this out.

http://www.ign.com/games/pokemon-stadium/n64-11154

http://www.ign.com/games/pokemon-xd-gale-of-darkness/gcn-716652

http://www.ign.com/games/pokemon-colosseum/gcn-566822

http://www.ign.com/games/pokemon-battle-revolution/wii-818481

http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-video-games/pokepark-wii-pikachus-adventure/

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/fPNEXfMXa5wl6kMaQ_mpxmQ6LsJW-cud

 

[sweenish]

No Pokemon game.

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/fPNEXfMXa5wl6kMaQ_mpxmQ6LsJW-cud

You're counting spin-off games (I don't count Pokemon-themed games as Pokemon games), you link a Pokemon themed game ON THE WII U, while also forgetting about Pokken Tournament for Wii U, and still wanting to say that the Wii U doesn't have Pokemon?

Please continue your explanation of how I was so wrong. Preferably with more links that prove my point.

 

[Red Hawk]

You're counting spin-off games (I don't count Pokemon-themed games as Pokemon games), you link a Pokemon themed game ON THE WII U, while also forgetting about Pokken Tournament for Wii U, and still wanting to say that the Wii U doesn't have Pokemon?

Please continue your explanation of how I was so wrong. Preferably with more links that prove my point.

The main Pokemon series has always been on handhelds, sure, but there's still been popular Pokemon games on home consoles. I'm not just talking Pokemon "themed" games, such as Pokken Tournament, that play completely different from a regular Pokemon game, but games like Pokemon Colosseum and Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness, which had RPG setups and battle systems very similar to the traditional handheld games. The Wii U doesn't have games like those. Pokemon is much less of a big deal on home consoles than on handhelds, though.

EDIT: I think there's a point to the idea that Nintendo has neglected some of its major franchises on the Wii U. What are the bread and butter of Nintendo's home console games?

--Super Mario games, of course.
--Legend of Zelda
--Mario-related sports and party games (this includes Mario Kart)
--Super Smash Bros
--Metroid

There are of course plenty of other games on Nintendo systems, but if I had to name the top 5 reasons as a "hardcore gamer" for buying the past couple Nintendo systems, Wii and Gamecube, those would be it. Nintendo covered Mario With New Super Mario Bros U and Super Mario 3D World, the latter of which I do consider a mainline Mario game, just in a new style, but it took a year after the Wii U's launch to release it. They've had a new Legend of Zelda in development for a while, but it's yet to see the light of day. At this point they'll probably turn it into a launch title for the NX like they did Twilight Princess for the Wii, which will frustrate the heck out of me. With Twilight Princess, at least the Gamecube already had a full original Zelda game early on with Wind Waker, while all the Wii U has are HD remakes of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (albeit worthwhile remakes). Mario-related games are hit and miss; Mario Kart 8 is fantastic, but it took a couple years to come out. Stuff like Mario Tennis Ultra Smash and Mario Party 10 were duds. Super Smash Bros is again fantastic, but that took 3 years to come out. We haven't even heard a peep from the Metroid series on the home console side. It may be that Nintendo has no idea what to do with the franchise after the misfire that was Other M, and are just throwing sh*t at the wall to see what sticks with stuff like Federation Force on the 3DS. Which is a shame; the Prime trilogy was great, and Metroid on whole could be a sci-fi franchise to rival the likes of Halo if it was used right.

Do you see a recurring theme here? The Wii U has some great games, but they took too long to come out, or in Zelda's case haven't even come out yet. I read years back that this was because Nintendo underestimated how much time and resources it takes to develop games in HD, and they weren't ready for it. It's an explanation, but it doesn't really excuse the poor execution they had with the Wii U. By the time their killer apps had come along, they had lost the headstart on Microsoft and Sony and were suffering from a lack of third party support.

Anyways, despite that, I personally think there's enough good games on the Wii U to make it worth buying (and I've put my money where my mouth is and actually bought one). As for why Nintendo won't drop the price, Nintendo probably gave up on establishing significant market share with the Wii U a while ago and now just wants to make as much money as they can with every Wii U sold. We probably won't see a price drop until the NX comes out and Nintendo needs to clear inventory.

 

[purbeast0]

Do you see a recurring theme here? The Wii U has some great games, but they took too long to come out, or in Zelda's case haven't even come out yet. I read years back that this was because Nintendo underestimated how much time and resources it takes to develop games in HD, and they weren't ready for it. It's an explanation, but it doesn't really excuse the poor execution they had with the Wii U. By the time their killer apps had come along, they had lost the headstart on Microsoft and Sony and were suffering from a lack of third party support.

nintendo has been this way since the N64 came out, i'm not sure why this would come as such a surprise to anyone 20 years later. they are stuck in the past and their old ways and there is nothing that has hinted they are looking to change considering it's been 20 years and the same exact design process has taken place.

 

[sweenish]

EDIT: I think there's a point to the idea that Nintendo has neglected some of its major franchises on the Wii U.

At no point have I ever refuted this.

So, that massive block in your edit is preaching to the choir.

If you go back, I was merely providing a correction to bad information. Instead of taking it in stride, they decided to try and prove themselves right, by proving me right.

 

[digiram]

True, I would consider a Wii U at 199 and a new Metroid game.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Mario 3D world exists, as does Maker (not what you're going for, I know, but it is a very successful Mario game at least). The home consoles have NEVER had pokemon, so I don't know why that's a ding.

Just wanted to point this out.

Pokemon Stadium was something. I actually liked plugging in my Game Boy cart to the N64 adapter and battling my characters in 3D.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

True, I would consider a Wii U at 199 and a new Metroid game.

A new Metroid game or the new Metroid game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroid_Prime:_Federation_Force