Why would I * Not * get the Asus A8N-VM-CSM instead of the A8N-E?

[BernardP]

Hi,

I am new here after a period of reading some of the very useful info available on this forum. As I am about to get a new system, I thought it would be a good occasion to register.

I had just about decided to go with the Asus A8N-E motherboard, although a bit reluctantly because of the risk of having problems with the chipset fan.

Then I started reading the GeForce 6150 Board Shootout thread and I am now wondering if the Asus A8N-VM CSM would not be a better choice for my needs.

I am mostly into music and videos, with a lot of audio editing/processing. With my new system, I want to be able to play games from time to time, so if I choose the A8N-VM CSM, I will add a mid-range videocard within 6 months, probably from the next generation of NVidia mid-range cards (GeForce 7600).

My current system audio output is already plugged into my stereo system in the next room. I want an S-VHS output in my new system, as it will also be plugged in the TV in the next room. The A8N-VM CSM doesn?t have video-out as standard , but I am ready to wait until I get a discrete video card with video-out.

My next system will be based either on a 3700+, a 4000+ or a 3800+ X2, depending on the relative prices when I make my purchase. If I get a 3700+, I will be interested in bumping the CPU frequency to about 2.4 Ghz, and I understand I can expect to be able to do this through the A8N-VM CSM BIOS. I am not interested in raising core voltage, which is not possible anyway with the VM-CSM. But this slight oveclocking is not a priority and I can live without it. I would not oveclock a 4000+ or a 3800 X2.

My next system will have 2 SATA drives, a DVD-RW drive, and later on, a PCI-E graphics card. I have no need for VGA slots. The 2 available PCI slots on the CSM-VM are enough in case the integrated LAN and sound go bad and I have to replace them with discrete parts. I don?t intend to upgrade this system (except for the graphics card in the short term), but rather to keep it for 4 or 5 years and then replace it.

So when I compare the A8N-E with the A8N-VM CSM, I get the following score :

--- No chipset fan on the A8N-VM CSM, a definite plus vs the A8N-E

--- On-board audio is of better quality with VM-CSM, because it is HD. I have no need for multichannel sound. Stereo is good enough for me.

--- IEEE 1394 is available on VM-CSM, not on A8N-E, although I don?t need it now and the Firewire standard appears to have lost the battle with USB 2.0.

--- Micro-ATX form factor for the VM-CSM vs ATX for the A8N-E, would be an easier fit inside the smallish Antec SLK-1650B case I would like to get.

--- The VM-CSM is almost new, so this board is less mature than the A8N-E. I could expect more teething problems and mandatory BIOS/Chipset updates with the VM-CSM

--- The other useful features of the A8N-E also seem to be available on the VM-CSM. Of course, it doesn?t hurt that the VM-CSM is a little cheaper than the A8N-E

As for the performance of the Asus A8N-VM CSM when used with a video card, it doesn?t seem to suffer when compared to a board with the Nforce4 Ultra chipset.

So is there anything I am missing here ? Considering my needs and interests, what more could I gain by going with the A8N-E ? Your comments are very welcome.

Having exposed all this my main questions about the A8N-VM CSM concerns the fact that I am not sure the on-board graphics can be disabled when a discrete video card is added. The User?s Manual only shows a BIOS setting to allow selection of the graphics controller to use as a primary boot device (PCI-PCIE-IGP). There is no option to Enable/Disable on-board graphics, as is the case with on-board audio and LAN.

On this subject, the X-Bit Lab Review of the 6150 chipset states that :

« The GeForce 6150 and 6100 are both equipped with a PCI Express x16 bus which can be used to connect an external graphics card to be used instead of the integrated graphics or as an additional graphics accelerator, working together with the integrated one. By default, these chipsets do not disable the integrated graphics core when an external graphics card is installed and thus can support four-monitor configurations »

So is there a way to modify this default setting? I would like to make sure that the on-board graphics can be disabled and to know how this is done. The primary boot device selection in the BIOS doesn?t seem to allow this. If anyone has any experience with this, the information will be very useful to me.

And finally, there is also the possibility that I buy the MSI K8NGM2-FID instead of the Asus A8N-VM CSM. There is much discussion about this in the GeForce 6150 Shootout thread. The MSI is more overclockable and comes with the optional TV-Out bracket. But from reading various comments on this forum and on NewEgg.com, I have the impression that the Asus board is currently a little more mature and stable.

My main point, you might guessed, is that I want the board to be stable and to deliver nominal specs without having to fuss with it.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[dingetje]

if u r getting 6150 dont go asus a8n vm csm, it has quirks. the msi 6150 board is prolly better.

 

[BernardP]

dingetje,

Quirks? As opposed to bugs, defects, problems...

I would like to know more if possible.

My first thread doesn't look to be a best-seller... Maybe the Topic is not attention-grabbing enough. Should have gone with:

BATTLE OF THE LOW-END A8N's

 

[gaidin123]

Hey there, welcome to the AT forums. Good first thread.

I happen to be one of the early adopters of the a8n-vm csm (check out some of the threads on it here). I had some major onboard video issues with my original one and cool n'quiet did not work in the initial BIOS release. Eventually I tracked it down to a bad CPU after swapping it out for another one (and a motherboard RMA, and PSU/RAM/drive replacements) and the thing has been totally stable for the past few weeks. I am not using the onboard video for anything more than command line access though (linux). In linux the board has been very stable so far with a PCI sata card and some drives plugged into the onboard sata as well. After a BIOS update cool n'quiet works properly now.

I've also got the K8NGM2-FID but that is waiting on my RMA'd CPU to get replaced. It was really nice that the MSI comes with the TV out bracket unlike the Asus. People seem to be having better overclocking experience with the MSI. The 2 boards are very very similar. I'll have more info on the MSI probably next week sometime...

Oh, and as for the onboard video, I haven't disabled it yet but there is a BIOS option to set the VGA framebuffer size and you have the options of: disabled, 16MB, 32MB, 64MB, and 128MB. I'd assume disabling the frame buffer disables the onboard graphics and gets you all your RAM back. One of the nice advantages of PCIe onboard video is that these things let you keep the onboard video enabled when you add in a discreet video board to get yourself 4 monitors.

Gaidin

 

[BernardP]

Thanks gaidin 123

I have been reading the MSI K8NGM2-FID Owner's Manual and it is much more detailed than the Asus A8N-VM CSM manual.

It is very clear in the MSI manual that there is a BIOS option to disable on-board graphics.

As for the Asus VM-CSM, it seems reasonable to assume that disabling the VGA frame buffer in the BIOS would completely disable on-board graphics. But this looks less obvious than the clearer choice offered in the BIOS of the MSI K8NGM2-FID

Could the VM-CSM on-board graphics still work with a "Disabled" frame buffer?

I will be looking forwards to your comments about the K8NGM2-FID

 

[BernardP]

I have read every comment on this forum and on NewEgg about both the Asus and MSI 6150 mobos.

My general impression is that the MSI has more features, but that Asus has been better in updating the BIOS to fix problems.

It is disapointing that the MSI K8NGM2-FID requires an update with a non-released beta BIOS to work properly.

Also, in Anandtech's Review of the Asus A8N-VM CSM, there is a comment that the nForce 430 Southbridge does not have any cooling, and that it does get quite warm during operation.

Could someone suggest a good (cheap) passive heatsink solution for the 430 southbridge chip?

 

[BernardP]

And so this thread is dying :brokenheart:

I would have liked opinions about the general build and component quality of a cheaper board like the A8N-VM CSM vs a regular board like the A8N-E

Are the cheaper Mini-ATX board as well put together and as reliable in the long term?

Is the limited overclocking ability an indication that the manufacturer uses cheaper components that are not to be pushed much beyond rated specs?

 

[sandeep108]

I have recently bought a Sempron 2500+ and Asus A8V-MX (integrated video/lan/sound, etc.) and can say that I am pretty happy, even at stock. It is a very low cost solution for basic computing like office/e-mail, etc. and is pretty quick booting and operation.

Edit: I use an A8N-E based system for my own / gaming use.

 

[BernardP]

For those who might be interested, I have decided that, should I buy a 6150/430 board, it will be the MSI K8NGM2-FID :

TV-Out in the box,
There is a small heatsink on the Southbridge chip, while there is not with the ASUS
BIOS features are better and clearer than ASUS
Manual is more detailed

Unfortunately, the current BIOS for this board is not mature enough for me. I would wait for a new BIOS. Current BIOS 3.0 is dated Nov 21 2005.

 

[SpongeBob]

FWIW, I've been running an A8N-VM CSM based system for over a month now. I've had absolutely zero issues with it. THis thing is rock solid stable and quiet and provides excellent performance. I only do minor gaming, for which the onboard video seems a little lacking, but other than I love this thing!

 

[gaidin123]

Heya, I'm still waiting on my RMA'd processor from AMD so no comments on the MSI board yet. The southbridge on the Asus does get warm and concerned me a bit at first. The blue zalman northbridge heatsink probably could fit but it will block access to some of the expansion slots. I think it was the NB-47J(could be way off there though).

Gaidin

 

[BernardP]

Yes, I found out that Zalman makes some nice soutbridge passive coolers, that can even be used to replace the chipset fans on full ATX boards like the Asus A8N-E. But yes, it can interfere with other components on a cramped Micro-ATX board. This is why I like the low-profile southbridge cooler included on the MSI K8NGM2-FID. It is certainly better than no cooler at all on the Asus A8N-VM CSM.

gaidin123, I am looking forward to your comments on the MSI board.

SpongeBob, it is nice to know that everything is running fine, even for such a new board/chipset. It gives me confidence in the platform.

 

[lightzout]

This board could be a great backbone for my future htpc but I wish Asus had included better audio options. I think the biggest things holding me back from getting this board are the prices of 939 cpus and the lack of clear peripheral support for the hd audio features. Currently I have a htpc I built on an nforce2 platform that has a couple things I have yet to overcome. The first is how to integrate with my receiver. I am not sure the spdif in/out will work the way I want with my reciever. My first attempts to get the receiver to pick up incoming audio didnt work. I have seen asus digital in/out brackets for sale so I will probably buy one to start testing with my nforce2. The htpc noise and heat in our stereo cabinet forced me to reconsider my whole approach and its getting overhauled today. The Ahanix Dvine 601 case looks like it fits in with your stereo components but it runs too loud and hot to leave on 24/7. Having a simple feature full motherboard that supports my crt monitor is exactly what I want but I dont want to spend another 200 on a cpu. Hopefully other 6150 / vm csm owners can chime in on their satisfaction with this board. So tempting.

 

[gaidin123]

Well, yesterday I finally got my RMA'd cpu back. AMD was apparently out of stock on 3000+ so they waited a while and sent me a new 3500+. I swapped that in to another machine and put a 3200 into the MSI board.

The board has the 3.0 bios for now. I've put everything into one of the Aspire Qpack cases with the original 24 pin PSU. So far things are looking good. I'm in the process of seeing where the limits are on this 3200 so the HT and memory is turned way down at the moment. The BIOS for the MSI is a bit confusing as far as overclocking related options are concerned. Things like cpu multiplier and ram voltage are in a separate area from things like HT speeds.

So far though, there haven't been any stability problems and having passive heatsinks on the southbridge and gpu is nice. I just wish there was a cpu voltage adjustment...I'm also planning on trying the tv out. In this thread or another of the 6150 threads someone mentioned tv out being very dim on the 3.0 bios.

Gaidin

 

[rbsrao79]

Hi Gaidin,
What linux distro did you use to setup the A8N-VM-CSM. You are one of the few people who I have heard speak of a successful linux installation. So far, I've had problems sata, acpi, the gpu (milage varying between distros).

Rajeev

 

[imported_taku]

i am selfing my aus and ordere the K8NGM2-FID from zip zoon fly. will look for your posts. thanks

 

[BernardP]

Great for you gaidin, a free 3500+ upgrade!

A new thread on your experience with the MSI K8NGM2-FID will be of great interest to me.

 

[imported_taku]

I an the proud owner of the K8NGM2-FID and the very unhappy owner of a
asus a8n-vn-csm. The asus board does not come close to the features on the msi board. Forget who advised me to trash the asus, forget it, and buy the msi.

Whoever that was thank you.

 

[Jorakal]

I've read this post many times, but still don't understand the original reason for going with a 6150 based board. Normally these boards are selected since they have integrated video, smaller motherboards, and general use for quiet, small case setups. If you are going to be adding video and a bunch of other features, then why not get a full feature, higher performance board?

 

[BernardP]

In my case I would say:

--- No chipset fan

--- Latest generation chipset with .90 micron process, intellectually elegant match with .90 micron S939 processor

--- High Definition onboard audio

--- Makes it possible to use onboard video until the NVidia 7600 series video card comes out, also with .90 micron process.

--- Onboard video always available in case of videocard failure

--- Can use smaller ATX case/PS (Antec SLK1650B) and still have ample room for HD's and optical drives because of the mATX board size