WHYYYYYY cant people write properly anymore?

[Deleted member 4644]

I am an editor of the college paper at UCLA and I see several dozen stories per day, most of them written by students. I am specifically in charge of editing the grammar of unsolicited student submissions and the staff opinion columnists. I am not the best writer in the world, but I generally have a decent understanding of what works and what doesn't.

Now, UCLA is a top 25 school academically. You would think that the students here are *somewhat* intelligent. Well, maybe they are, but they definitely cannot write an English paper. I often get submissions and even columns that would receive Fs and Ds if I were grading them for a 12th grade AP English class. We are talking about 800 word papers with upwards of 20 or 30 serious grammatical errors -- things like incorrect verb-noun agreement, run-on sentences, dangling modifiers, and pronouns that refer to nothing. Shockingly, I also see the improper use of "your, you're, there, their, etc."

I won't even get into the diction and idiom problems I see because they pale in comparison to the major structural/grammar problems.

It's terrifying. This is UCLA, its not some second-rate, remedial, inner city high school. Even if you assume that "science majors can't write" it still doesn't account for the horrible pieces I get from 4th year English students. As I said, I'm no English god, I'm Just a 2nd year Psychology student, but this situation is freaking appalling.

Comments?

:: First Edited for minor grammar issues ::
Copy Approved for Publication

 

[her209]

The intarweb has lots to do with it!

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
I am an editor of the college paper at UCLA and I see several dozen stories per day, most of them written by students. I am specifically in charge of editing the grammar of unsolicited student submissions and the staff opinion columnists. I am not the best writer in the world, but I generally have a decent understanding of what works and what doesn't.

Now, UCLA is a top 25 school academically. You would think that the students here are *somewhat* intelligent. Well, maybe they are, but they definitely cannot write an English paper. I often get submissions and even columns that would receive Fs and Ds if I were grading them for a 12th grade AP English class. We are talking about 800 word papers with upwards of 20 or 30 serious grammatical errors -- things like incorrect verb-noun agreement, run-on sentences, dangling modifiers, and pronouns that refer to nothing. Shockingly, I also see the improper use of "your, you're, there, their, etc."

I won't even get into the diction and idiom problems I see because they pale in comparison to the major structural/grammar problems.

It's terrifying. This is UCLA, its not some second rate remedial inner city high school. Even if you assume that "science majors can't write" it still doesn't account for the horrible pieces I get from 4th year English students. As I said, I'm no English god, I'm Just a 2nd year Psychology student, but this situation is freaking appalling.

Comments?

:: First Edited for minor grammar issues ::
Copy Approved for Publication

i take offense to your crap about some second rate remedial inner city high school, some of the birghtes peoples goes theres.

 

[fatbaby]

Well isn't ucla composed mostly of asians?

 

[notfred]

You mean stuff like spelling "why" with 6 "y"s or leaving the aposthrophe out of "can't"?

 

[SuperTool]

University of Caucasians Living among Asians?
The FOB's can't write, what do you expect?

 

[KingNothing]

Originally posted by: Tyler
You mean stuff like spelling "why" with 6 "y"s or leaving the aposthrophe out of "can't"?

Bah, beat me to it.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Tyler
You mean stuff like spelling "why" with 6 "y"s or leaving the aposthrophe out of "can't"?

Actually, you would be suprised... I've seen people submit documents for publication with "u" instead of "you."

 

[kranky]

Over the past 10 years, I have seen a steady stream of college graduates come in to the place where I work, and there is a definite drop in their ability to write coherently.

The saddest thing is, the poor writers aren't going to get promoted to positions where they have to write to customers, or write up reports for management and no one is ever going to tell them why. They just don't go up to people and tell them to go back to school and take some more English Comp classes.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: fatbaby
Well isn't ucla composed mostly of asians?

Well, the majority of the articles I edit are written by white people.

 

[iwearnosox]

I'd be happy just seeing people sort out the whole "your" and "you're" debacle.

 

[Vic]

I blame Phonics... seriously.

 

[HannibalX]

Because they don't care.

 

[rh71]

Bah, I'm an Asian with a COM degree and I write better than most y'all Englishmen.

And yes, the answer is simply BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE. If they were more anal about things, they'd actually stop to worry about things like grammar and punctuation. It's habit... starting from a young age.

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: Tyler
You mean stuff like spelling "why" with 6 "y"s or leaving the aposthrophe out of "can't"?

Actually, you would be suprised... I've seen people submit documents for publication with "u" instead of "you."

been there done that. Yes i actually finishe an essay and a friend ask to read it a day before i was going to turn it in, he found 3 errors were i wrote u instead of you. Guess talking on im to much get you in a bad habit.

 

[Ryan]

Dangling modifiers just sounds sooooo dirty!

Other than that, I'm in 100% agreement

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Trinitron
Because they don't care.

Well, they should. The problems I find are not just minor problems that make the writing less than excellent. These are major problems that actually make the damn papers hard to understand. How can society function if we cannot communicate with each other? I want to be able to relay more than oral knowledge to my grandchildren.

 

[Growltiger]

"Me fail English, that's unpossible"

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: Trinitron
Because they don't care.

Well, they should. The problems I find are not just minor problems that make the writing less than excellent. These are major problems that actually make the damn papers hard to understand. How can society function if we cannot communicate with each other? I want to be able to relay more than oral knowledge to my grandchildren.

because that is what check speeling and gramma check is for.

 

[iwearnosox]

Originally posted by: Growltiger
"Me fail English, that's unpossible"

Ralph Wiggum?

 

[melly]

on the forums, i tend to write in all lowercase. IRL, though, i'm propa.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: caramel
on the forums, i tend to write in all lowercase. IRL, though, i'm propa.

On forums and when I am IMing, I always write like a retard (except in "Why cant we write" threads ). But IRL, I usually write pretty well. I would assume that if you were writing for an audience of about 50,000 fellow community members IRL, you would want to write well too. That's why I'm concerned.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Isn't it can't, not cant?

 

[iwearnosox]

There was an interesting article a while back, I wish I could find it. Focused on the AOL-ization of today's youth and how IM culture is ruining their schoolwork. Teachers are seeing web-speak infiltrate their curriculums.

 

[Muse]

I suppose it's gotten worse and worse, gradually over the years. A few years ago I had occasion to help out my neice who was going to Cal. She was having some computer problems, and in the course of helping her I read a paper she had written. I was totally appalled at her level of literacy and she had nearly graduated in pre-law. She has a photo of herself and President Clinton when she was interning in Washington. Now she's a high paid lawyer but I always wonder if she ever learned to write. I'm afraid I'd be appalled all over again if I found out the truth. Who knows? Myself, I take great pride in my writing and I enjoy crafting the written word. And, yes, I generally proof read before I hit the send button. At Anandtech, of course, it's easier to proof read when you "Preview" or after you've posted. I like to just post and edit if I see mistakes. Lots of folks don't care if they make errors. They obviously figure they don't have time to bother as long as they figure the reader knows what they meant to say. I see this constantly. For instance, many posters everywhere don't bother with the caps key. I think I write really well, but I don't know that it's helped me much professionally.

Edit: I took a class at UCLA in the 1960's taught by a guy who published stories in Playboy. I was seriously thinking about changing my major to English and the class was in short story writing. I still have one of the submissions of one of the students. It's an inspiring story.