Wi-Fi in 6500 Square foot home

[gscone]

Planning my network in my newly built home. For the home office, everything is hard wired, Cat gigabit, but the rest of the home needs wireless. Looking for advice on the best equipment which allows excellent throughout. We will do Netflix, stream music, Xbox, have IP Cameras throughout the perimeter of the home. We also transfer large files between my corporate office and satellite office, back to the home office.

IN doing some initial research, looks like the Buffalo products are solid. MY Av guy whom is not super duper with the networking stuff recommends the Buffalo products, but I think there is something better. I presume at least 2-3 Access Points. Anything I should be on the lookout for?

Money is no concern as I want the best products with minimal headaches.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

With that much square footage, especially if there's a lot of walls in the building, consider building a uniFi AP mesh. That will give you the best of all worlds by giving you solid reception in all areas of the house, seamless hand-off with your devices roaming in the house (no dropping of wifi when jumping from one AP to another), and ensures that AP's do not interfere with each other, causing dead spots and strange wireless behavior.

Keep in mind that this requires a wireless controller in the form of software running on a computer somewhere on the network.

http://www.ubnt.com/unifi

 

[Lifted]

IN doing some initial research, looks like the Buffalo products are solid.

Money is no concern as I want the best products with minimal headaches.

Based on your usage, and money being no concern, you should probably not focus on consumer products and look into wireless LAN controllers. Unifi are decent, but I've heard the hand-off is not that quick - it can take a few seconds which can kill a session depending on the service being used. Their latest ac units also had issues when released... not sure if that's improved. Maybe somebody here with experience can comment on that?

Ruckus, Aruba, Meraki (now owned Cisco) all make gear that is designed to run under heavy usage conditions with dedicated hardware controllers. Low end controllers can be had for ~ $1,000 and access points ~$300. A proper installation would require a survey of the house to determine where the AP's should be placed, and configuration of the controller and AP's.

Best bet would be to check with your companies IT department as they may already do business with a certified reseller of the above mentioned brands. You're looking at 5k - 10k for labor and materials, and might even be required to purchase a support contract. If you go with a Unifi reseller you might save a bit. If you can deploy this yourself, then unifi would probably come in a bit less assuming you have a spare computer to use for the controller software that can stay on 24/7, but you'd really be shooting in the dark with regards to the placement of the AP's.

 

[kevnich2]

Best bet IMO would in fact be the unifi access points. Handoff in my opinion is fine. You will definitely need several to cover a 6,500 sq foot house. Man that's a big house. We have offices smaller than that lol. Anyway, if you do this yourself, make sure your contractor puts cat6 drops in ceiling in several centralized spots that all lead back to your communications area. Either a closet, garage,etc should work for that (structured cabling). Then you can install the Ap's in the ceiling and use the included Poe to power them on.

As far as rest of house, I would recommend atleast 2 cat6 drops and a coax in each room and double that in any family or living rooms where media will be more heavy. If not, you will likely regret it later. Your looking at probably 10,000 easy just for data wiring for a house that large.

 

[kevnich2]

Also for your IP cameras, have you already bought them? Ubiquiti also has some nice air vision products for this that are all IP based and uses a central nvr box, may want to take a look at it.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

You can site survey unifi AP's just as easily as any other Mesh network solution, and a WLC is no more reliable than your standard computer (even Cisco's are just single PSU weak computers with the ability for HA in the usual egregious amounts of money).

We actually manage the Cisco Mesh systems under out company, and I can say from what I've seen, unless you need to support multiple geographic sites (with failover of the controllers to any available WLC), then Cisco doesn't not have any real advantages to a much cheaper option such as unifi (especially when you are licensing WLC's for a certain number of AP's, which is stupid as always). The deployments are far from seamless, swaths of AP's will randomly disassociate from the controllers with no real known reason. As Cisco's #1 bug reporting partner, we have tons of bug reports open for the WLCs, and many are not going to get patched anytime soon.

If this is for your own home, unless you want to pay an MSP to setup and manage the thing, I'd stick to something a little more home friendly than the license happy Cisco units. I'd recommend Aruba as well, but I can't think of any features they offer that you'd utilize.

I can also attest to seeing reports of sticky clients on some UniFi setups, but I've personally never experienced it

Also, with Unifi, if the controller software goes down, mostly everything still works. The only thing that is sticky is the Guest Captive Portal, which goes into "access allowed" mode while the controller is unreachable. This is only an issue if you're running some sort of revenue generating Hotspot. Unlike the Controller managed gear, the job of the controller is just to optimize AP's on-the-fly and manage the Guest Captive Portal. The AP's aren't lost without a cause if the controller goes down

 

[gscone]

You can site survey unifi AP's just as easily as any other Mesh network solution, and a WLC is no more reliable than your standard computer (even Cisco's are just single PSU weak computers with the ability for HA in the usual egregious amounts of money).

We actually manage the Cisco Mesh systems under out company, and I can say from what I've seen, unless you need to support multiple geographic sites (with failover of the controllers to any available WLC), then Cisco doesn't not have any real advantages to a much cheaper option such as unifi (especially when you are licensing WLC's for a certain number of AP's, which is stupid as always). The deployments are far from seamless, swaths of AP's will randomly disassociate from the controllers with no real known reason. As Cisco's #1 bug reporting partner, we have tons of bug reports open for the WLCs, and many are not going to get patched anytime soon.

If this is for your own home, unless you want to pay an MSP to setup and manage the thing, I'd stick to something a little more home friendly than the license happy Cisco units. I'd recommend Aruba as well, but I can't think of any features they offer that you'd utilize.

I can also attest to seeing reports of sticky clients on some UniFi setups, but I've personally never experienced it

Also, with Unifi, if the controller software goes down, mostly everything still works. The only thing that is sticky is the Guest Captive Portal, which goes into "access allowed" mode while the controller is unreachable. This is only an issue if you're running some sort of revenue generating Hotspot. Unlike the Controller managed gear, the job of the controller is just to optimize AP's on-the-fly and manage the Guest Captive Portal. The AP's aren't lost without a cause if the controller goes down

Great points here, The more I think about it, I rather go with something which requires minimal management and is easy to setup. Personally never heard of unifi, but will research it tonight. Does cisco have any solid products for me?

 

[rekd0514]

https://store.ubnt.com/unifi-ap-pro-3-pack.html

I would probably go with 1 or 2 of the 3 packs of the Pro model. Like others have stated the AC models still have issues at this point. The unifi software will need to be setup on a server if you would like the option to manage them at all times.

Also, can I have a job? lol

 

[notposting]

Where are you in the build process for the home? Could also have some camera locations pulled when the AP locations are pulled.

A good low-voltage network designer can help A LOT with this sort of thing and make recommendations.

*note: wire pulling guy here, might be biased*

Now, you might see recommendations to pull this many cables to this many outlets in rooms, etc, but ultimately that is your call. Although it isn't a bad idea to have device that can be wired or wireless be wired, if only to help reduce the traffic over wifi.

What *IS* a great idea for something like your house, is to have conduit/raceway installed instead, and depending on home construction that could determine how far it goes. You might just run some up to the attic to allow future access to second floor rooms, you could have some run directly to difficult to access areas (like around fireplaces, into kitchens where a TV could go, etc) and install blank wallplates.

Don't forget this stuff can do a lot more than just LAN or cable or phone. You can have whole home audio, home theater, lighting control, intercom, security (card access for example), cameras, etc.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Great points here, The more I think about it, I rather go with something which requires minimal management and is easy to setup. Personally never heard of unifi, but will research it tonight. Does cisco have any solid products for me?

They have solid products, but nothing that I would consider worthwhile in a home. There are Cisco Meraki products that are like unifi on steroids but their yearly costs are many thousands a year. You have to license those on a per AP / per year basis and the N-class AP is $700 a pop. In the traditional centrally managed wireless, the base 2504 WLC licensed for only 5 APs is $700 as well. Getting support for 25 APs is $4,000. The basic Aironet 600 is $300 a piece.

Really, Cisco / Meraki's gain is central mangement of multiple geographic sites and multiple wifi networks, for real-time infographics, management, and future planning.

Your home on the other hand, is unlikely to ever need any of this stuff, outside of getting a good spectrum analysis during your planning stages. I definitely understand that you said money is no object, but I genuinely feel that a Unifi solution would give you all the performance you need, in a solution that is far easier to manage, and at a cost far below Cisco gear. They're really aiming at a different markets between the two and aren't easily comparable.

 

[notposting]

I didn't actually explain it in my post either, so just to clarify: you can run *empty conduit/raceway all over the place. Whether it's empty penetrations through wall (firestopped if applicable) for later use, difficult to access runs like I mentioned, a set of standard blanked boxes/low-volt rings in every bedroom that can easily be added as needed.

You can also have some runs put in that are likely to be used but maybe not immediately, they wouldn't have to be patched into a switch per se -- terminated on your patch panels and at the outlets, maybe a network/phone/cable drop at least in every bedroom and you can patch in as needed.

Again though, a good low-voltage design consultant should be able to help.

 

[alkemyst]

The key thing is if this is one story or two. If two story, the issue isn't so bad. You will more than likely need devices with external antennas though for an optimum solution.

For products: www.smallnetbuilder.com is really good to fine out what works/doesn't.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Woah that's a huge house, yeah get yourself a couple of the unifi 3-packs. Make them all go to a central rack with the management server, network switch and other equipment. May even be worth having several wiring closets or your home runs will be very long.

There are entire books written on designing wifi networks, it may be worth reading up on it so you can optimize the location of the APs. You can't just slap them anywhere and expect optimized connectivity.

 

[s44]

One Unifi 3-pack should actually cover it. Those things are awesome.

And no, you don't need the app running anywhere except to set it up.

 

[ViviTheMage]

money no object? I support 80 or so of these where I work...

http://www.arubanetworks.com/

love them, buy a controller and a few AP's, you'll be golden .

 

[notposting]

Woah that's a huge house, yeah get yourself a couple of the unifi 3-packs. Make them all go to a central rack with the management server, network switch and other equipment. May even be worth having several wiring closets or your home runs will be very long.

If the house is roughly square, it's only roughly 80x80', would be pretty hard to get anything over length...well, you would have to work at it pretty good anyway.

I had been thinking the same thing and then checked what the dimensions on 6500 sq ft would be. It's a bit less than just about anything I've worked on

This does remind me though -- the TR should have adequate power and cooling/ventilation, possibly consider battery backups to keep equipment up during short power disruptions. Also need to get your phone and/or cable ran to the location as well.

 

[alkemyst]

money no object? I support 80 or so of these where I work...

http://www.arubanetworks.com/

love them, buy a controller and a few AP's, you'll be golden .

I am not pooping on aruba, but if money is not an object they are not the choice to make.

 

[alkemyst]

If the house is roughly square, it's only roughly 80x80', would be pretty hard to get anything over length...well, you would have to work at it pretty good anyway.

I had been thinking the same thing and then checked what the dimensions on 6500 sq ft would be. It's a bit less than just about anything I've worked on

This does remind me though -- the TR should have adequate power and cooling/ventilation, possibly consider battery backups to keep equipment up during short power disruptions. Also need to get your phone and/or cable ran to the location as well.

I agree for the most part, but the layout was never given to us.

Some houses are very long. Most today in mass construction are indeed just square more or less.

 

[azazel1024]

Even if it is a rather long house, I'd assume 2 stories, plus a basement (not included in the square footage possibly). You are looking at an 80x40ft house with 3 stories if there is a basement and it isn't included in the square footage. That isn't really that big. Even if it was a single story and 160ft long and 40ft wide (a rather odd shape) or some combination, you are probably talking no more than 240ft tops on a wiring run, and that is assuming from one corner of the house to the other, going around the perimeter and making some other very crazy ups, downs and arounds to get the final destination.

I'd bet odds are good the longest runs probably wouldn't be over 150ft.

 

[gscone]

What *IS* a great idea for something like your house, is to have conduit/raceway installed instead, and depending on home construction that could determine how far it goes. You might just run some up to the attic to allow future access to second floor rooms, you could have some run directly to difficult to access areas (like around fireplaces, into kitchens where a TV could go, etc) and install blank wallplates.

Don't forget this stuff can do a lot more than just LAN or cable or phone. You can have whole home audio, home theater, lighting control, intercom, security (card access for example), cameras, etc.

Thanks, I have 4 conduits running from the attic straight to the basement.

 

[gscone]

The key thing is if this is one story or two. If two story, the issue isn't so bad. You will more than likely need devices with external antennas though for an optimum solution.

For products: www.smallnetbuilder.com is really good to fine out what works/doesn't.

2 story

 

[gscone]

I agree for the most part, but the layout was never given to us.

Some houses are very long. Most today in mass construction are indeed just square more or less.

How is fairly rectangular is shape. Spoke with my LV guy and he stated the buffalo products are solid and fast.

 

[azazel1024]

Just make sure you are using plenum rated wiring if you are going to run it through conduit.

 

[Eug]

Just make sure you are using plenum rated wiring if you are going to run it through conduit.

? I wasn't aware that a wire conduit is considered a plenum. Is that really a requirement? I thought it had to be an supply or return duct for the HVAC system or something, not just a regular conduit. Maybe it's a regional thing difference though, as I'm in Toronto.

BTW, I asked my local city department and they said there was no regulation for low power stuff like Ethernet in residential homes (unless I ran it through air ducts). I specifically asked because I didn't want to screw up my inspection. (I had pulled all the proper permits for my reno, unlike most people.)

 

[Carson Dyle]

Money is no concern as I want the best products with minimal headaches.

Hire a professional to design and install a system. Go play 18 holes at your country club, have a nice lunch, and it will all be installed when you get back.