Wii U New Zelda - Kotaku

[Dumac]

Twilight Princess kind of had an overworld though. I remember repairing the bridge on the map to progress around it. Been a while though, but I could have sworn it was pretty close to Ocarina of Time.

It kind of had an overworld, but it was section off 90% of the game by literal walls. Hyrule field didn't open up until the end of the game. not to mention, there wasn't anything in it except a single optional dungeon IIRC. It just acted as a short cut between places.

Twilight Princess started the extreme corroding of console Zelda games. There was almost zero exploration in that game. You were shepherded from place to place in a very linear fashion. It was probably due to the large focus on story.

Compare the Ocarina of Time map to the Twilight Princess map and Skyward Sword map. Ocarina of Time's map looks like a feasible world and terrain. Twilight Princess is just a bunch of corridors linking isolated areas, not to mention that the game forces you to go to isolated areas in a specific order via the tiny corridors. Skyward swords drops any attempt to pretend the places are linked together, and just has 3 seperate large isolated areas.

One of the reasons I like the 2D games so much is due to the large connected overworld. A Link to the Past. Links Awakening. Oracles of Seasons.

 

[poofyhairguy]

My main gripe in all three was the lack of a real overworld.

Wind Waker had an overworld:

In fact the problem was it was too big, I remember flipping the channels to watch TV between islands when I played it on the Gamecube.

 

[Revolution 11]

Wind Waker had a LOT of exploration. The problem was it took forever to get anywhere until a certain point in the game when you got to fast travel. The overworld was quite good for the time, although they could have had more events based on in-game actions and missions.

 

[Dumac]

Wind Waker had an overworld:

In fact the problem was it was too big, I remember flipping the channels to watch TV between islands when I played it on the Gamecube.

Wind Waker had a LOT of exploration. The problem was it took forever to get anywhere until a certain point in the game when you got to fast travel. The overworld was quite good for the time, although they could have had more events based on in-game actions and missions.

I don't count an empty sea separating isolated islands as a real overworld. The only real exploration was on the islands. The sea was just there as filler to spread out content and the console time to load the stuff of value.

I want a large connected land mass where every nook and cranny is filled with secrets, like every 2D Zelda game (excluding the DS entries), Ocarina of Time, or even Elder Scrolls games.

On a seperate note, I also want a large number of temples and environments, which Windwaker and Skyward Sword did not have.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I still need to play Majoras Mask.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't count an empty sea separating isolated islands as a real overworld. The only real exploration was on the islands. The sea was just there as filler to spread out content and the console time to load the stuff of value.

That is not completely fair. You had to fish in the sea or whatever to get the Triforce pieces (much like "digging" in the right place in LTTP).

 

[Dumac]

That is not completely fair. You had to fish in the sea or whatever to get the Triforce pieces (much like "digging" in the right place in LTTP).

Funny that you bring up the triforce fetch quest, since from my knowledge it is considered one of the worst parts of Windwaker (hence the rework in WWHD). I quit on the triforce fetch quest my first time playing on gamecube. I don't really count that part as exploring, since you are told where to go, whats waiting for you there, and it is mandatory.


The sea did have random treasure and ememies, but since they were randomly generated they were all unexcited and ignored by me 99% of the time.

The treasure maps that led to heart pieces, etc were fun, but I didn't link needing a treasure map to explore. I liked it more in OoT where I could discover hidden caves myself and go spelunking. Plus, those caves would be a small handcrafted experience.

 

[Fulle]

I've recently started playing through Wind Waker again, on the Wii U, since my daughter really enjoyed Ocarina of Time, and I seemed to had forgotten how terrible Wind Waker was, and thought that my daughter would think it's a cute game.

The over-world is basically huge areas of empty space, with little (most very tiny) patches of content patched in as islands. Through much of the game it's necessary to use frustratingly slow sailing travel, that depends on wind direction, but in the Wii U at least they added a swift sail, so it's not as bad. It's still terrible, and my daughter had a hard time keeping interest, in large part due to the sailing, and big areas of empty space in the overworld. Then, when you do get to an island, you can usually only enter from a single small entrance.

Dungeon design was pretty boring in that one too. Very linear, and obvious paths to take. I can't really recall having to actually think at any point... and the boss fights lacked any kind of challenge.

On my recent play-through of Ocarina of Time, my daughter would beg for us to get back into playing the game, and seemed to love the game. With Wind Waker, she mostly just wants to throw the pigs off the cliff.

I dunno. I'm currently on the Triforce quest again, just finishing up the Wind Temple (which was horribly boring, in and of itself). I'm on the verge of throwing in the towel, but I want to get Wind Waker off my list, as a personal goal to beat all the Zelda games at least once each.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It kind of had an overworld, but it was section off 90% of the game by literal walls. Hyrule field didn't open up until the end of the game. not to mention, there wasn't anything in it except a single optional dungeon IIRC. It just acted as a short cut between places.

Twilight Princess started the extreme corroding of console Zelda games. There was almost zero exploration in that game. You were shepherded from place to place in a very linear fashion. It was probably due to the large focus on story.

Compare the Ocarina of Time map to the Twilight Princess map and Skyward Sword map. Ocarina of Time's map looks like a feasible world and terrain. Twilight Princess is just a bunch of corridors linking isolated areas, not to mention that the game forces you to go to isolated areas in a specific order via the tiny corridors. Skyward swords drops any attempt to pretend the places are linked together, and just has 3 seperate large isolated areas.

My main problem with Skyward Sword was Fi who acted like you, the player, was stupid. Someone would tell you to "go get the crank from the ogre in the woods and you can fix the problem and get into the gate". Then when you get there Fi says "hey Link, lets go put that crank in and you can open the gate" Like...duh. Don't let me actually figure it out or anything. lol That wasn't an actual conversation in the game, but things similar to that happened and I wanted to shut Fi off somehow.

 

[Dumac]

My main problem with Skyward Sword was Fi who acted like you, the player, was stupid. Someone would tell you to "go get the crank from the ogre in the woods and you can fix the problem and get into the gate". Then when you get there Fi says "hey Link, lets go put that crank in and you can open the gate" Like...duh. Don't let me actually figure it out or anything. lol That wasn't an actual conversation in the game, but things similar to that happened and I wanted to shut Fi off somehow.

That was pretty awful. They need to tell the Zelda team to stop explaining how to play the game through tons of dialogues. None of the other Nintendo series are so inundated with talking help.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That was pretty awful. They need to tell the Zelda team to stop explaining how to play the game through tons of dialogues. None of the other Nintendo series are so inundated with talking help.

Maybe with the open world they will leave more up to us to discover. I think it would be cool to randomly drop into a cave structure guarded by some monster hoarding treasure and among that treasure...oh look some gauntlets that let you pick up heavy objects. Then leave it up to us to discover uses for it. I'd prefer to find things like this in various places not connected to a main dungeon or found in the area you need to first use it in. Let us find an area we can't pass and then we need a way through. No more hand holding...please.

 

[mmntech]

That was pretty awful. They need to tell the Zelda team to stop explaining how to play the game through tons of dialogues. None of the other Nintendo series are so inundated with talking help.

They need to tell their developers to HEY! Listen! :awe:

I agree though that too much help is annoying. Be nice to be able to turn the hints off, or have them only come up if you're really stuck. That's how most other devs handle hints these days. Somewhere along the line Nintendo games went from mercilessly difficult to holding your hand.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

No boobs, no Zelda.

/QED

Girly Link for the Japanese audience.

 

[Dumac]

No boobs, no Zelda.

/QED

Girly Link for the Japanese audience.

Hello

 

[ImpulsE69]

Hello

If that's supposed to be a girl, it's not at all Hentai enough (never thought I would find myself saying that).

 

[Fulle]

The breast thing keeps coming up, but for a recent example, Lucina didn't have any sign of breasts when she was in disguise as Marth.

It doesn't take much to even hide even pretty substantially sized breasts. I can recall a side by side picture of Jennifer Marbles that circulated around a while back, where she was showing what she looks like in a sports bra, vs a looser fitting bikini top, which demonstrates this pretty well... I tried to find a link the picture to drop into this post, but uh, the lady behind me at work started to look at me with suspicion. Apparently, "Jennifer Marbles boobs" isn't a good thing to type into Google's picture search at work. Came up right at the top of the image search tho.

 

[Fulle]

Well, darn. Eiji Aonuma apparently has clarified now that the character was supposed to be Link...

I really hope that the developers take this as a sign that Link has become too feminine, and make some adjustments before the game is released.

 

[Dumac]

Well, darn. Eiji Aonuma apparently has clarified now that the character was supposed to be Link...

I really hope that the developers take this as a sign that Link has become too feminine, and make some adjustments before the game is released.

Never said that Link couldn't be female...

 

[Rakehellion]

 

[nurturedhate]

I have to be missing something here or maybe the person who made that is a complete idiot but Zelda is a girl...

 

[cmdrdredd]

I have to be missing something here or maybe the person who made that is a complete idiot but Zelda is a girl...

I don't think the people who made that actually knew that Link, the hero in the tunic, wasn't called Zelda. Or it's just a joke, you know like how people assume the legend is about the hero who is Link but people think his name is Zelda.

 

[hans030390]

I dunno. I'm currently on the Triforce quest again, just finishing up the Wind Temple (which was horribly boring, in and of itself). I'm on the verge of throwing in the towel, but I want to get Wind Waker off my list, as a personal goal to beat all the Zelda games at least once each.

WW is at its best after the Triforce fetch quest. Dungeons get better, and the backstory/history really unfolds into what is, IMO, an awesome story. Arguably one of the cooler stories that links the whole Zelda timeline together.

The pacing of the HD remake is incredibly fast compared to the original, from what I remember. I was done with that fetch quest in no time.

I think WW has more character and heart than most of the other Zelda games.

 

[hans030390]

I have to be missing something here or maybe the person who made that is a complete idiot but Zelda is a girl...

You are missing the joke.

 

[Fulle]

WW is at its best after the Triforce fetch quest. Dungeons get better, and the backstory/history really unfolds into what is, IMO, an awesome story. Arguably one of the cooler stories that links the whole Zelda timeline together.

The pacing of the HD remake is incredibly fast compared to the original, from what I remember. I was done with that fetch quest in no time.

I think WW has more character and heart than most of the other Zelda games.

There's no "dungeons" after the fetch quest. It's "dungeon." After the fetch quest the only thing left is Ganon's Castle... which is part of why it's so frustrating.

Granted, in Wind Waker HD, the Swift Sail was added, which helps a lot, and the fetch quest was streamlined a bit. But, it still is a low point. It seems added to force players to sail all around in a time consuming fashion, to help hide that this is a pretty short Zelda game, with only 5 dungeons.

IMHO, the fetch quest should have been scrapped, and the game should have had more dungeon areas. Perhaps about 3 smaller mini-dungeons, like the Ocarina of Time's Ice Cavern, and Bottom of the Well.

 

[hans030390]

Oops, you're right. I'm mixing up elements of the game. Been a while since I played it all the way through and am not too far in the remake. Either way, I thought it got really good starting with Tower of the Gods. I get that a lot of gamers have more mixed feelings about WW than most other Zelda games, but I'd consider it my favorite (though not technically the best in most regards).