Wikileaks releases Podesta's emails

[Starbuck1975]

The explanation is rather simple, and same as it was back during the cold war or now in the middle east.

Russian is trying to win by supplying weapons to their enemy's enemies, a la proxy war. The latter don't even have to win per se, just grind on the opposition. Much as the taliban was our proxy in the 80's (then anti-taliban in 00's), wikileaks/assange is simply a stooge for russia at the moment, and through them the republicans.

You can't really blame the russians for trying to win, just as the US tries to advance its own interests.

It might be worth noting the chain of events that led to the rise of Russian nationalism and subsequently Putin.

At the end of the Cold War, the then senior President Bush found Yeltsin a perhaps hesitant but nonetheless willing partner in defining America's and a democratic Russia's place in a post Cold War world. They hashed out an ambitious and promising agreement at Camp David.

Then the former Yugoslavia splinters, with more and more nationalist and ethnic enclaves looking to join the west, directly challenging Russia'a sphere of influence.

Yet in Bosnia, America and Russia was able to find common ground and preserve the peace despite Russia having a more sympathetic leaning towards Serbia.

Until things heated up in Kosovo and Clinton started dropping bombs on Serb targets without consulting the Russians, a tone deaf move that the Russians responded to in kind. Look up the incident at Pristina airfield.

All of this stirred up Russian nationalism under the climate of an already troubled economy, and sent Putin's political fortunes to the top of the pole.

 

[DrDoug]

Until things heated up in Kosovo and Clinton started dropping bombs on Serb targets without consulting the Russians, a tone deaf move that the Russians responded to in kind. Look up the incident at Pristina airfield.

You stopped at Clinton, keep going; second Iraq invasion, dissolution of the ABM Treaty (remember Bush wanted to focus on missile defense systems) and the 2008 Bucharest Summit on expanding NATO.

Yeltsin was a drunk, I vividly remember the era. Nice story.

 

[agent00f]

It might be worth noting the chain of events that led to the rise of Russian nationalism and subsequently Putin.

At the end of the Cold War, the then senior President Bush found Yeltsin a perhaps hesitant but nonetheless willing partner in defining America's and a democratic Russia's place in a post Cold War world. They hashed out an ambitious and promising agreement at Camp David.

Then the former Yugoslavia splinters, with more and more nationalist and ethnic enclaves looking to join the west, directly challenging Russia'a sphere of influence.

Yet in Bosnia, America and Russia was able to find common ground and preserve the peace despite Russia having a more sympathetic leaning towards Serbia.

Until things heated up in Kosovo and Clinton started dropping bombs on Serb targets without consulting the Russians, a tone deaf move that the Russians responded to in kind. Look up the incident at Pristina airfield.

All of this stirred up Russian nationalism under the climate of an already troubled economy, and sent Putin's political fortunes to the top of the pole.

That's basically republicans trying to blame clinton for putin, which is hilarious given Putin was Yeltsin's hand picked successor. There was however more than enough discontent in russia at yeltsin for cratering social order as a result of privatizing the economy at the behest of washington. So Putin casts himself as the guy who'll show the baddies both domestic in greedy gangster capitalists and foreign in Chechnya what's what, and russian people still love him for it.

 

[ivwshane]

It might be worth noting the chain of events that led to the rise of Russian nationalism and subsequently Putin.

At the end of the Cold War, the then senior President Bush found Yeltsin a perhaps hesitant but nonetheless willing partner in defining America's and a democratic Russia's place in a post Cold War world. They hashed out an ambitious and promising agreement at Camp David.

Then the former Yugoslavia splinters, with more and more nationalist and ethnic enclaves looking to join the west, directly challenging Russia'a sphere of influence.

Yet in Bosnia, America and Russia was able to find common ground and preserve the peace despite Russia having a more sympathetic leaning towards Serbia.

Until things heated up in Kosovo and Clinton started dropping bombs on Serb targets without consulting the Russians, a tone deaf move that the Russians responded to in kind. Look up the incident at Pristina airfield.

All of this stirred up Russian nationalism under the climate of an already troubled economy, and sent Putin's political fortunes to the top of the pole.

That's certainly one way to spin it, right comrade?

 

[Starbuck1975]

That's basically republicans trying to blame clinton for putin, which is hilarious given Putin was Yeltsin's hand picked successor. There was however more than enough discontent in russia at yeltsin for cratering social order as a result of privatizing the economy at the behest of washington. So Putin casts himself as the guy who'll show the baddies both domestic in greedy gangster capitalists and foreign in Chechnya what's what, and russian people still love him for it.

Not blaming anyone for anything. Providing a snapshot in time and the ripple effects of poor foreign policy choices, ones I am certain Clinton 2.0 will continue.

Read up on Russian American relations prior to and immediately after Kosovo.

I also find it amazing that American soldiers were defending and protecting Muslims in the Balkans, and a few short years later we have 9/11.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That's certainly one way to spin it, right comrade?

Shhhh. The adults are having a conversation.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You stopped at Clinton, keep going; second Iraq invasion, dissolution of the ABM Treaty (remember Bush wanted to focus on missile defense systems) and the 2008 Bucharest Summit on expanding NATO.

Yeltsin was a drunk, I vividly remember the era. Nice story.

Keep the ball rolling further and talk about the Arab spring, Syria and Libya. If you are going to elevate Russia as a resurgent threat to American interests, it is prudent to understand the motivation.

 

[ivwshane]

Shhhh. The adults are having a conversation.

Really? All I see is a poster trying to spread his bullshit reality to others.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Really? All I see is a poster trying to spread his bullshit reality to others.

You are still in time out. I will come get you when you learn to play nice.

 

[ivwshane]

Keep the ball rolling further and talk about the Arab spring, Syria and Libya. If you are going to elevate Russia as a resurgent threat to American interests, it is prudent to understand the motivation.

Their motivation is a shitty economy due to a weak oil market and sanctions for shitty behavior. Like most incompetent leaders, instead of putting in place policies that make their country stronger and more prosperous they lash out against others and look for scapegoats (which is what trump is doing). Its easy to rally ones citizens when their country is failing when you can blame the great Satan.

 

[ivwshane]

You are still in time out. I will come get you when you learn to play nice.

Its cute you think I want to play with you.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Their motivation is a shitty economy due to a weak oil market and sanctions for shitty behavior. Like most incompetent leaders, instead of putting in place policies that make their country stronger and more prosperous they lash out against others and look for scapegoats (which is what trump is doing). Its easy to rally ones citizens when their country is failing when you can blame the great Satan.

See the time out worked. I knew you were capable of coherent thought.

Now what I am saying, if you would bother to listen, is that America in its foreign policy blunders often provides the motivation for despots to rise in power.

I am in complete agreement that America should not follow their lead and elect its own despot.

However, following the thread of American foreign policy since the end of the Cold War, I see a series of blunders and missed opportunities.

Sure W made the worst of them all, but the Clintons are no less hawkish. I honestly think Obama got stronger and more focused with foreign policy with Kerry as SoS and it makes me lament his getting swift boated even more.

 

[ivwshane]

See the time out worked. I knew you were capable of coherent thought.

Now what I am saying, if you would bother to listen, is that America in its foreign policy blunders often provides the motivation for despots to rise in power.

I am in complete agreement that America should not follow their lead and elect its own despot.

However, following the thread of American foreign policy since the end of the Cold War, I see a series of blunders and missed opportunities.

Sure W made the worst of them all, but the Clintons are no less hawkish. I honestly think Obama got stronger and more focused with foreign policy with Kerry as SoS and it makes me lament his getting swift boated even more.

I know exactly what you were saying and I know exactly what you were doing. Your anti Clinton hate is strong and permeates in almost every post you make. I called you on it and you deflected and then restated your opinion without the spin and Clinton hate.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I know exactly what you were saying and I know exactly what you were doing. Your anti Clinton hate is strong and permeates in almost every post you make. I called you on it and you deflected and then restated your opinion without the spin and Clinton hate.

No, you made an irrelevant and childish comrade comment and I called out your typical bullshit.

Take notes from agent. I rarely agree with him but he at least is willing to have an adult conversation, and brings facts and data to the table.

 

[Jaskalas]

I also find it amazing that American soldiers were defending and protecting Muslims in the Balkans, and a few short years later we have 9/11.

Bin Laden didn't give a !@#$ about Muslims in the Balkans. The two events are distinctly separate.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Bin Laden didn't give a !@#$ about Muslims in the Balkans. The two events are distinctly separate.

Ask yourself why and what were Bin Laden's true intentions. There were mujadeen running around Bosnia at some point.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend unless they become my enemy or some spoiled bored rich Saudi kid decides to exploit the situation and launch his own personal jihad.

 

[agent00f]

Not blaming anyone for anything. Providing a snapshot in time and the ripple effects of poor foreign policy choices, ones I am certain Clinton 2.0 will continue.

Read up on Russian American relations prior to and immediately after Kosovo.

Yeah I'm sure Yeltsin appointing Putin then his winning the election had little to do with their calamitous domestic situation and their own war in Chechnya, and all to do with some diplomatic row they had to pretend to get mad at to look good. I hear the chinese were pretending to be even more angry after their embassy was literally bombed, that's why they're no longer our allies. Damn clintons ruined our global hegemony.

I also find it amazing that American soldiers were defending and protecting Muslims in the Balkans, and a few short years later we have 9/11.

Yeah they really gotta all start acting like one entity for the convenience of the conservative narrative.

 

[postmortemIA]

That's certainly one way to spin it, right comrade?

Putin himself said that bombing of Serbia was turning point and wake up call for Russia: what it really means when world has only one superpower
There are many sources about that, I think Slate nicely sums it up:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._the_u_s_bombed_kosovo_in_1999_putin_has.html

 

[agent00f]

Putin himself said that bombing of Serbia was turning point and wake up call for Russia: what it really means when world has only one superpower
There are many sources about that, I think Slate nicely sums it up:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._the_u_s_bombed_kosovo_in_1999_putin_has.html

You sure do put a lot of stock in what Putin says.

Especially over crimea, which is russia's anyway.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You sure do put a lot of stock in what Putin says.

Especially over crimea, which is russia's anyway.

Tell that to the Tatars.

 

[agent00f]

Tell that to the Tatars.

They've been aware of it bout as long as america's been a country.

 

[Ackmed]

It's amazing to me how few media outlets report these emails. I suppose because they are extremely damning to Hillary. "Justice Department official gave Clinton camp 'heads up' about testimony" Top story on Fox, not listed at all on CNN, MSN, or several others. Top stories are anti-FBI, and Trump. Instead its about Obamas interview when he is claiming Hillary is trustworthy and warns about the FBI, etc. When not too long ago he said she would do anything to get elected. Seems like he was right then, not now. How people cannot be upset that this happened is beyond me. Not being upset that our democracy is being abused like this? Sad. No matter who you are rooting for, this type of backdoor dealing should not be tolerated.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ve-clinton-camp-heads-up-about-testimony.html

 

[Starbuck1975]

Putin himself said that bombing of Serbia was turning point and wake up call for Russia: what it really means when world has only one superpower
There are many sources about that, I think Slate nicely sums it up:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._the_u_s_bombed_kosovo_in_1999_putin_has.html

Great article and yes it does sum up nicely the reality of what happened in the Balkans. Clinton over reached with Kosovo and it provoked the Russians considerably.

 

[fskimospy]

Great article and yes it does sum up nicely the reality of what happened in the Balkans. Clinton over reached with Kosovo and it provoked the Russians considerably.

Surely you realize that Putin is a serial liar, right? I don't know why anyone would trust a single thing he says.

For example, go look at his op-ed on not bombing Syria. Lol.

 

[fskimospy]

It's amazing to me how few media outlets report these emails. I suppose because they are extremely damning to Hillary. "Justice Department official gave Clinton camp 'heads up' about testimony" Top story on Fox, not listed at all on CNN, MSN, or several others. Top stories are anti-FBI, and Trump. Instead its about Obamas interview when he is claiming Hillary is trustworthy and warns about the FBI, etc. When not too long ago he said she would do anything to get elected. Seems like he was right then, not now. How people cannot be upset that this happened is beyond me. Not being upset that our democracy is being abused like this? Sad. No matter who you are rooting for, this type of backdoor dealing should not be tolerated.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ve-clinton-camp-heads-up-about-testimony.html

The reason there isn't more reporting on them is that they say almost nothing newsworthy or interesting?