Will a 4770 boost my performance?

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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Cost effectiveness is one argument. Sure, I can respect that argument. A 4770k costs 400$ and may not be the best performance per dollar. For someone in a money crunch, certainly overclocking will be more cost effective. However, that is a far cry from others who state that there is no performance increase.
As far as overclocking goes, I've owned several lynnfield systems, the lynnfield doesn't have the same OC headroom or OC scaling as IVB or Haswell - Mine struggled to get 4ghz and I had to settle for less, and I certainly wasn't shy about throwing voltage at it. 4ghz is also seems to be the practical limit for most lynnfield levels chips (for the best chips, many can't reach that far), while IVB and Haswell can go quite a bit higher depending on how efficient of a cooler is used.

I've seen the differences with my own eyes on systems that i've upgraded in terms of gaming framerates, even with OC'ing taken into account. Now, there are GPU limited games and it is true that some of these show limited gains from the CPU, however overall this is just a small fraction of games. As a whole, there are tremendous benefits especially for a CPU that old - and this will become more apparent now that newer games are beginning to take advantage of HT and multiple cores as Crysis 3 does. Especially anyone that is interested in playing 64 player b4 when it is released or bf3 - multiplayer BF3/4 are completely dependent on CPU, unlike the SP portion. I can almost certainly guarantee that anyone having hopes of doing 64 player bf4 on a lynnfield, have fun with that - it's going to be a dog.
 
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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,760
1,159
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Agreed. I can't believe some of the folks saying the 760 to Haswell isn't an upgrade. I don't know if it's wishful thinking or just obliviousness (usually AMD fans, interestingly enough, conclude from that what you will) , i've upgraded many friends' lynnfield systems to IVB and Haswell to know that the increase in most games, especially CPU limited games and MP games, is huge. Games like Crysis 3, Skyrim, SC2, WoW, and BF3 multiplayer (among others) will easily go up in performance by 40% or more with the same GPU, since they're CPU limited especially in MP. It's just humorous to read these posts from folks thinking that a 760 will handle bf4 64 playby er MP just as well as a haswell...whatever they say...I've seen the differences between lynnfield - IVB/Haswell in games with my own eyes.

Their loss for listening to bad advice. You certainly won't catch me doing 64 player MP bf3 or bf4 on a 760 or lynnfield.

I had no problem playing BF3 64 players when I had my 920 @ 4Ghz + 6950 radeon granted this was at 1920x1200 and high preset to keep things playable. granted he doesn't have HT on his chip but at 4Ghz it should still provide enough fps

when I upgraded to the 970 it was even better.

I think people are just saying he can get by with his rig if he overclocks it instead of doing a complete rebuild for now.

Also the OP never mentioned what games, So why is it people are now trying to use BF3 to prove a point?


1280x720....

It was used to show a cpu bottleneck but you are right he isn't going to be playing at that res and the res he is going to use will be 1920x1200 and more gpu limited.
 
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Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
Also the OP never mentioned what games, So why is it people are now trying to use BF3 to prove a point?

I don't know. So many people have no willingness to accept that less than the best is acceptable. It's frustrating as hell to see this forum that years ago was so focused on helping people get good value for their money is now focused on highlighting benchmarks that direct them to spend more money than they need to.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
1280x720....

And "normalized performance"? What the hell is that?

Average performance doesn't matter AT ALL.

Let's see the minimums here. CPU limitations don't scale with res for most game engines, so if it can maintain minimums >~35 FPS at that res, then it can maintain them at 1920x too.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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I had no problem playing BF3 64 players when I had my 920 @ 4Ghz + 6950 radeon granted this was at 1920x1200 and high preset to keep things playable. granted he doesn't have HT on his chip but at 4Ghz it should still provide enough fps

when I upgraded to the 970 it was even better.

I think people are just saying he can get by with his rig if he overclocks it instead of doing a complete rebuild for now.

Also the OP never mentioned what games, So why is it people are now trying to use BF3 to prove a point?

This is true.

I'll tell you a story (you can PM the guy and ask him, it's 100% true) about BF3.

I've been a PC gamer for donkey's years, and I was very excited about BF3 coming out. When it finally did, I was mostly ecstatic, being a longtime BF2 player. I was so excited that I got one of my oldest friends to jump on it, despite him not really playing PC games for at least a decade or more. He loved the Uncharted games on PS3, but was super busy with work and just being in his 20s having a blast to have much time to do PC gaming. He didn't have a gaming PC, so we ended up patching together an Athlon II X3 and GTS450 on a dead-cheap mobo from our local TigerDirect store, complete with 4GB of DDR2-800. Lo and behold, it was enough to play moderately well. He was not immediately good at BF3. As a matter of fact he would usually find himself at the bottom of the map leaderboards on a regular basis. But he didn't care, and he almost certainly has more fun with BF3 than anyone I know. He also LOVES the 64p matches, plays them almost exclusively on that very modest rig without a single complaint. I did give him a 95W Phenom II to use, but the mobo just didn't like it for some reason, we couldn't get it stable (we're talking one of the $40ish Asrock 740 type dirt cheapie mobos).

Now my PC I upgraded several times, trying out 3770Ks, one 3960X, all kinds of different boards. Ended up with SLI 4GB 670FTWs, and my personal favorite chip is a 2700K that runs cold on low volts under a 212 at 5Ghz happily, combined with 16GB of great memory and raid 256GB 840 Pros. I also loved the 3960, but couldn't justify it in the end as I very very rarely encode anything, and I couldn't get it past 4.5 under an H100. So I went from a 2500k @ 4.8 to a DOA 3770K, two successive 3770Ks, then a 3960X, then finally to the golden 2700K. I obviously have no problem pushing massive frames on BF3, but I don't think I ever enjoy it as much as my buddy does. He now has over 1400 hours, 100k kills, and is just an absolute monster on infantry maps. He's also the biggest team player I've ever seen. He will take a chance to help any of his teammates every time. He also doesn't play a benchsitter style, for whatever reason he loves Metro, and he will barrel down into the enemy 500 times if he can, trying every possibility to push their defenses, and sometimes he gets through and causes massive carnage. Again, all of this on a rig that isn't much of a fraction of most of our setups.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/user/Uncle_Danny/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJzghYekT1o <-- very similar rig to what I'm talking about

Thats my buddy. He actually intended to be called Lieutenant Dan (after Forrest Gump), but he had a brain fart and ended up as Uncle Danny, lol.

TL : DR, BF3, even 64P, doesn't require a psycho rig to be playable. A lynnfield, let alone a lynnfield at 3.6-4Ghz range, would be a massive upgrade for my buddy's Athlon II X3, but he's already put over 1400hrs in and has no complaints.

4770K is certainly a LOT better than i5 760. However, once the 760 is overclocked, and good settings applied at 1920x1200, I can't think of many times one would see a difference large enough worth $400. It would be my personal inclination to do a $30 tower air cooler first. Going to a 4770K is also not a bad move, if one has the money and wants a great new mobo/chip to last them even longer down the line.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
I don't know. So many people have no willingness to accept that less than the best is acceptable. It's frustrating as hell to see this forum that years ago was so focused on helping people get good value for their money is now focused on highlighting benchmarks that direct them to spend more money than they need to.


Nothing wrong with the lower resolution, it shows what each cpu is capable of given enough GPU power vs resolution.

The processors aren't going to get faster at higher resolutions, though even these aren't telling people what they need to know, which is min fps and how much time is spent there.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I don't know. So many people have no willingness to accept that less than the best is acceptable. It's frustrating as hell to see this forum that years ago was so focused on helping people get good value for their money is now focused on highlighting benchmarks that direct them to spend more money than they need to.

See my post We're not all elitists!
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I don't know. So many people have no willingness to accept that less than the best is acceptable. It's frustrating as hell to see this forum that years ago was so focused on helping people get good value for their money is now focused on highlighting benchmarks that direct them to spend more money than they need to.

That's pretty funny considering some in this thread advocated a 650$ GTX 780 with an i5-760 for 1080p in another thread.

The problem is only a select few games are 100% gpu limited at 1080p, most of them aren't. "Good enough performance for me". Okay good enough for you, great. But Haswell is significantly faster and overclocks better, and will provide substantial benefits in games that aren't 100% gpu limited, and most are not - especially multi-player games. What may be GPU limited in single player is a vastly different story in a 64 player MP games. As well - CoH2? Civ5? SC2? BF3 64 player? BF4? Crysis 3? Skyrim with mods? The list goes on. BF4 in particular. I've seen the difference I won't bore you with benchmarks upon benchmarks, although I could fill an entire page with CPU benchmarks from gametest.ru. It's fine if you want to keep your lynnfield. I'm glad mine is long gone.

I've already agreed with the value angle, overclocking is cheaper and gives you a little more life. "Good enough performance for you". Okay, fine. I'm not arguing with any of that. The 760 can last a little longer, and is a good value, and may be great performance for some. Maybe the price/performance of the 4770k doesn't align with what some expect either, I don't disagree there either. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But to say that it is identical in terms of gaming performance as higher tier CPUs (which I've seen in the other gtx 780 thread,), no. Maybe in a few select games, but overall most games benefit substantially from more CPU horsepower especially in large multiplayer games.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
That's pretty funny considering some in this thread advocated a 650$ GTX 780 with an i5-760 for 1080p in another thread.

The problem is only a select few games are 100% gpu limited at 1080p, most of them aren't. "Good enough performance for me". Okay good enough for you, great. But Haswell is significantly faster and overclocks better, and will provide substantial benefits in games that aren't 100% gpu limited, and most are not - especially multi-player games. What may be GPU limited in single player is a vastly different story in a 64 player MP games. As well - CoH2? Civ5? SC2? BF3 64 player? BF4? Crysis 3? Skyrim with mods? The list goes on. BF4 in particular. I've seen the difference I won't bore you with benchmarks upon benchmarks, although I could fill an entire page with CPU benchmarks from gametest.ru. It's fine if you want to keep your lynnfield. I'm glad mine is long gone.

I've already agreed with the value angle, overclocking is cheaper and gives you a little more life. "Good enough performance for you". Okay, fine. I'm not arguing with any of that. The 760 can last a little longer, and is a good value, and may be great performance for some. Maybe the price/performance of the 4770k doesn't align with what some expect either, I don't disagree there either. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But to say that it is identical in terms of gaming performance as higher tier CPUs (which I've seen in the other gtx 780 thread,), no. Maybe in a few select games, but overall most games benefit substantially from more CPU horsepower especially in large multiplayer games.

Yeah I think any reasonable person would agree with the following :

(1) You don't *need* a super high end rig to enjoy PC gaming
(2) Faster CPUs are better than slower ones
(3) Matching bleeding-edge GPUs with older CPUs is a little silly
(4) Matching bleeding-edge CPUs with older GPUs is a little silly (unless you don't game)
(5) OC often has massive benefits with CPUs that commonly OC to a high %
(6) OC on cheap air coolers is a great value
(7) ...
(8) Profit!

We don't yet really know what the OP even plays. Given that he bought a $500 GPU, he doesn't seem to have $$ problems. A 4770K would indeed be a really large upgrade, or a vanilla 4770 with more features if he's just not an overclocker at all and doesn't want to try. At the same time, if he's willing to give it a go, a 212 Evo or similar would give him the ability to OC the 760 a large amount, which might give him all the performance he wants/needs for now, opening up the possibility that better deals might open up down the line when BF4/etc drop.

Going 4770k? Win.
Going OC for now? Win.
Sitting on what he's got if it's playable to him? Win.

 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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Pretty obvious to me in that video something other than the VC is holding back performance.

Almost certainly. However, is it good enough to play and enjoy? That depends on the player. After all, there are some out there with extreme cooled 3970s that will tell you that a 4770K is trash and that they wouldn't play without their Titan SLI.

There's always a moving standard. I personally don't know how my buddy plays so well with his Athlon II and GTS450, but he does, and he loves every minute of it.
 

BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
8,115
0
71
That's for the OP to decide, but as it stands now without an OC on his chip his performance will be worse than that which was offered in that video with a much lesser video card.

The idea of wasting performance, thus money with a 4GB 680 already purchased seems weird to me tbh.

I don't think the cost of moving to an i5 and z87 would be that great once he sold his current cpu and board. Probably $200 give or take based on what level of board he goes with.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I don't know. So many people have no willingness to accept that less than the best is acceptable. It's frustrating as hell to see this forum that years ago was so focused on helping people get good value for their money is now focused on highlighting benchmarks that direct them to spend more money than they need to.

I've been lurking the forums far longer than I've been registered and I don't see what you're seeing. The forums have always had a mix of opinions arguing both sides. It seems you're just upset not everyone shares your POV. The fact of the matter is that neither side is wrong.

Is an OCd 760 @ 4ghz good enough for an enjoyable BF3 experience? For most gamers, absolutely.

Is a 4770 a big upgrade? Yes, it is.

The OP isn't getting bad information, its even been suggested that he OC first and see where that gets him which is a good suggestion.

If the other side isnt argued and the OP overclockes but its still not giving him the desired performance, he may be under the impression that no significant upgrade exists. He's getting all the info he needs to be able to make an informed decision in his own, I'm not sure why you take issue with that.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
I've been lurking the forums far longer than I've been registered and I don't see what you're seeing. The forums have always had a mix of opinions arguing both sides. It seems you're just upset not everyone shares your POV. The fact of the matter is that neither side is wrong.

My POV is to test yourself and find out what matters to you and it seems nobody else has shared that POV, so perhaps you're correct here.

As far as history, it could that I'm just harkening back to the "good old days" but I distinctly remember people largely arguing for things like AXPs and other cheaper CPUs like e2160, e5300 and e7200 specifically due to value, even though there was pretty clear evidence that the less "cut down" chips were better performance options.

Yes there was always a mix, but I think it's difficult to argue that it's pretty heavily slanted to the top end now. I will absolutely admit to being bitter about the whole Intel decision set forcing into "K" chips and P/Z chipsets thing and I certainly wish that AMD were a more viable option, but that is what it is.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
I will absolutely admit to being bitter about the whole Intel decision set forcing into "K" chips and P/Z chipsets thing and I certainly wish that AMD were a more viable option, but that is what it is.

Ahh, well don't sweat it. With Intel gimping their K series chips with missing instruction sets and temps that reach thermal limits at clocks at just a couple hundred MHz above a non K's turbo frequency, there's less and less reason to buy one. Lol

Seems any real overclocking may be limited to E series processors now. We'll find out soon enough with IBE
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,551
13,116
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Almost certainly. However, is it good enough to play and enjoy? That depends on the player. After all, there are some out there with extreme cooled 3970s that will tell you that a 4770K is trash and that they wouldn't play without their Titan SLI.

There's always a moving standard. I personally don't know how my buddy plays so well with his Athlon II and GTS450, but he does, and he loves every minute of it.

- I'd love to see some benches (BF3) SB-E vs haswell with SLI(tri?) titans, got some ? .. i cant find em.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
lol, the dream is over dude, Sandy was the last great enthusiast leap. its all about power reduction now

Sandy Bridge was a huge improvement, but I think the largest enthusiast leap, if you're looking at it from an IPC perspective, came from the Nehalem architecture. With Sandy Bridge we saw a sizable improvement in clock speed and turbo management (and efficiency), which account for a lot of the performance improvements from a "stock" perspective. Once you overclock a Lynnfield processor to Sandy Bridge clock speeds though, the IPC difference isn't as grand; ~10-12% actually.

I won't argue with you on the efficiency part though!

With that said, I still think the OP would receive the greatest improvement in performance for his dollar by investing in a decent HSF and overclocking his CPU to 3.6ghz+. Will it match the performance or efficiency of a Haswell based 4770k unit? Of course not, but it'll be significantly cheaper solution in comparison until the OP feels the performance gain is worth his dollar. After all, Intel is continuing to provide +5-10% IPC gains with each successive architecture, but that doesn't mean that Lynnfield @ 3.6ghz is going to be slow.

If he had a Core2 Quad on the other hand, I'd say otherwise lol.
 

Agent707

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2013
7
2
66
Thanks for all the replies.

What kind of games do I play? Well, no FPS games. Ever. I'm a casual old fart. Play stuff like LOTRO, ANNO 2070... Nothing too tasking I suppose.

Overclocking isn't my thing any more. I used to, but after suffering through a "few" meltdowns I said - no more.

And by meltdowns, I mean gradual system degradation over a period of time - down to the point where the CPU would not run at even 50% of original clock speeds.

Now, this was many years ago (in my AMD days), and I know things have evolved, but I just don't mess with it.

You guys that love to do it and get your most bang:buck - that's awesome! Just not my cup of tea any more.

I already have a HS/Fan capable of running this thing at 3.6+ probably. It's a big cooler with a 120mm fan on it (I haven't used a stock cooler - never - who does? hehe)

As for someone mentioning upgrading my video card instead... I just spent $650 on this card a few months ago... You high? I'm using this card for 2 or 3 more years! lol



I agree with most that, while some situations I wouldn't see squat, and others I would see performance boosts by upgrading...

.... to go ahead and upgrade it now. Putting a 4770 in it would bring my system in alignment of my graphics card (pretty much anyway), and I would be set for the next 24-30 months.

My wife just shakes her head at me... but pfffffffft.... I just got my quarterly bonus check so what the heck... I'm still putting $1500 in savings, so what can she say, right? Right! HAH! :whiste:

Good to be back on the forums.

Thanks guys.
 
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