Will AMD sign a new deal to build ARM chips?

[cbn]

The recent announcement of Nvidia’s Project Denver and Microsoft’s decision to port Big Windows to ARM got me thinking if AMD would sign a deal to build ARM Cortex A15 products.

While its true that ARM Cortex A15 wouldn’t be able to compete with $200 to $300 Core i7 Desktop chips, it might be able to compete with $200 to $300 Core i7 ULV Laptop chips in some metrics.

We can make an argument that by launching Cortex A15 AMD would be in competition with its own Bobcat APUs (reducing sales), but what if Intel is forced (as a result of A15) to lower prices on its ULV laptop products for some markets? Wouldn’t Bobcat sales be decreased anyway (along with the Netbook Atom)?

 

[CupCak3]

Don't you mean Global Foundries, not AMD?

 

[veri745]

Don't you mean Global Foundries, not AMD?

this

AMD doesn't "build" chips, they design them

 

[Schmide]

They do make the Hollywood chip (Wii) that has an ARM core?

 

[cbn]

this

AMD doesn't "build" chips, they design them

Yes, something to compete with Nvidia, Qualcomm, TI for people who are not concerned about x86 compatibility.

Maybe ARM A15/Radeon APU using either stock CPU Core IP or an AMD designed Custom Core (featuring Turbo, etc.)?

 

[CKTurbo128]

They do make the Hollywood chip (Wii) that has an ARM core?

I don't think it's ARM-based, since the Hollywood chip in the Wii is essentially a die-shrunk and OCed version of the original Flipper GPU chip found in the GameCube. The Wii uses a PowerPC based CPU from IBM for it's main processor.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Why would AMD do this? A Zcate APU would be more beneficial for them for just about all mobile devices. Or design a GPU core to sell to other companies for embedding in their own ARM chips.

 

[Phynaz]

AMD doesn't make chips.

 

[Dark Shroud]

AMD doesn't make chips.

They still own a stake/share in Global Foundries so yes they do make chips.

 

[Bradtech519]

Would it even be profitable for AMD to do this? I thought most people who make ARM processors are the companies that actually sell the devices. I guess it could be smart to try to hedge on the demise of x86/x64 in the future.. I wonder if they have already been beat to the initial punch, and now all the other companies have deals worked out with one another to produce and trade. There are probably reasons right now why AMD is not doing it. Probably mainly focused on delivering a great APU, Discrete GPUs, and competing with Intel on the Desktop and Server front.

 

[CupCak3]

They still own a stake/share in Global Foundries so yes they do make chips.

I own shares of BP; do I make gasoline? :ninja:

 

[CupCak3]

Would it even be profitable for AMD to do this? I thought most people who make ARM processors are the companies that actually sell the devices. I guess it could be smart to try to hedge on the demise of x86/x64 in the future.. I wonder if they have already been beat to the initial punch, and now all the other companies have deals worked out with one another to produce and trade. There are probably reasons right now why AMD is not doing it. Probably mainly focused on delivering a great APU, Discrete GPUs, and competing with Intel on the Desktop and Server front.

Do I think it would be profitable/smart for AMD to design an ARM processor? Probably not

Do I think it would be profitable for AMD to design an ARM processor under contract for another company? Maybe as long as they can hire good staff and not canabilize other projects. A good deal of the risk would be offloaded to someone else.

Do I think it would be profitable for Grobal Foundries to produce someone else's ARM chip? If not, they've got big problems coming :awe:

 

[Dark Shroud]

I own shares of BP; do I make gasoline? :ninja:

Did you invest money in building refineries like AMD built GF?

Do I think it would be profitable/smart for AMD to design an ARM processor? Probably not

Do I think it would be profitable for AMD to design an ARM processor under contract for another company? Maybe as long as they can hire good staff and not canabilize other projects. A good deal of the risk would be offloaded to someone else.

Do I think it would be profitable for Grobal Foundries to produce someone else's ARM chip? If not, they've got big problems coming :awe:

There was talk of GoFo making Tegra 2 chips, but that is probably bunk. GoFo makes chips for the Xbox 360 so that will keep them with stable income for some time.

 

[Bradtech519]

I agree with you. It might not immediately be something that is but in the long run it might be wise to hedge on ARM and X86/X64..

Do I think it would be profitable/smart for AMD to design an ARM processor? Probably not

Do I think it would be profitable for AMD to design an ARM processor under contract for another company? Maybe as long as they can hire good staff and not canabilize other projects. A good deal of the risk would be offloaded to someone else.

Do I think it would be profitable for Grobal Foundries to produce someone else's ARM chip? If not, they've got big problems coming :awe:

 

[TuxDave]

Did you invest money in building refineries like AMD built GF?

You're quite the stubborn one....

 

[Phynaz]

Did you invest money in building refineries like AMD built GF?

I'm a General Motors bondholder. Guess that means I manufacture cars.

 

[P4man]

AMD should have taken an ARM architecture license years ago so they could bring their own ARM soc to market around now. Like nVidia, they have graphics tech that is world class. And unlike nVidia, they actually have ample experience in designing CPU's. And I mean CPU cores, not just implementing off the shelve ARM designs which most have been doing so far.

But what AMD did instead was sell their mobile graphics divisions a few years ago. They sold Xilleon, NXT and their DTV processors to broadcom and they sold their mobile gpus to qualcomm (now called Adreno, the GPU for snapdragon and scorpion socs which has since been selling in tens of millions of smartphones). They sold those units for peanuts. $65 million for the qualcomm deal $51 million for the broadcom one.

AMD was uniquely positioned. No other company had anything like their experience and IP to make socs for portable devices, tablets, phones, smart tv, settop boxes, cars, game consoles. You name it. Some companies have the knowledge for GPUs (nVidia mostly) others for CPU's (intel is trying at least, though with 1 arm tied behind their back as they use x86), others basically have the software experience (MS recently bought an ARM achitecture license, for those that missed it). AMD had it all, and much of it on the shelve.

They completely and utterly blew it.

 

[LostPassword]

no, amd is making thier own low power chips

 

[Phynaz]

They completely and utterly blew it.

They would not have survived without the cash those sales generated.

Edit: Added 'not'

 

[P4man]

They would have survived without the cash those sales generated.

Fair point, they were in desperate need for cash. But they were sitting on a goldmine, they should have sold anything else, or licensed their tech or whatever. Perhaps spin out those divisions to a new company and at least keep some shares in it. Really, its not like the current ARM/mobile revolution was somehow unexpected.

As for those saying bobcat; sorry bobcat looks like an excellent atom/CULV netbook competitor, its not a mobile phone or even tablet chip. Its current TDP is literally an order or magnitude too high for these markets, and TDP is the easy part. Intel managed the TDP issue with moorestown Z series, but even they still havent managed a decent mobile phone or tablet chip.

 

[cbn]

no, amd is making thier own low power chips

Bobcat will be a good chip 2011-2013+, but what about the future?

Where will the ARM based Google Operating systems be at that point?

 

[Wreckage]

Semantics aside, AMD may be forced into the ARM market.

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm a General Motors bondholder. Guess that means I manufacture cars.

Late quote here, but it sure does. Albeit not physically. But your money does.

 

[Fox5]

Fair point, they were in desperate need for cash. But they were sitting on a goldmine, they should have sold anything else, or licensed their tech or whatever. Perhaps spin out those divisions to a new company and at least keep some shares in it. Really, its not like the current ARM/mobile revolution was somehow unexpected.

As for those saying bobcat; sorry bobcat looks like an excellent atom/CULV netbook competitor, its not a mobile phone or even tablet chip. Its current TDP is literally an order or magnitude too high for these markets, and TDP is the easy part. Intel managed the TDP issue with moorestown Z series, but even they still havent managed a decent mobile phone or tablet chip.

Maybe AMD just wanted to consolidate engineering resources? Any time spent on those was time spent away from other projects.
Besides, AMD is first and foremost a cpu company, those were all ATI's projects which in some way competed with AMD's future. Bobcat looks like it'll be at least cost competitive with high end ARM cores (it's around the same size), at a higher performance (and power) level, it'll still be able to hit embedded markets where ATI had some market success. It's only losing out on the cell phone market, which it may not have had the engineering resources to make it worthwhile.

AMD is focusing on a few markets and expanding its technology as it can. It'll be able to hit the smart phone market eventually, and it can probably hit the tablet market with the current iteration of Bobcat. Bobcat is also perfectly suited for set top boxes, kiosks, TVs, and all those other devices that Atom and ARM are also actively competing in now.

 

[P4man]

Bobcat looks like it'll be at least cost competitive with high end ARM cores (it's around the same size), at a higher performance (and power) level,

There is more to cost than the silicon. ARM chips carry on average a $0.2 license cost. Perhaps its a bit more if you use ARMs hardmacro's and mali gpu, but it wont be much more. That pretty much gives you a soc design you can take to the fab. Thats why you see small startups like Nufront coming out of nowhere with what looks to be a very competitive chip:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/01/09/nufront-preparing-arm-based-server-chip-august-2011/

They just used ARMs off the shelve, high performance implementation. Their R&D cost is close to zero, at least when compared to what intel and amd need to spend on designing a new chip.

Lets assume AMD spent something like $500M on bobcat. IF they manage to sell 50 millions of those, each will carry a $10 R&D cost. A figure thats almost as high as the sales price of highend ARM chips. Pretty tough for them to compete. And it gets worse if AMD actually starts competing on price with ARM chips, since the availability of ~$20 bobcats would surely canalize its higher margin (and higher R&D cost) chips.