I think it's more of people buying houses they couldn't afford and over-leveraging themselves based on their income.Yeah, what the fuck do people need houses for anyway. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
You've said absolutely nothing that disproves what I said - it's pretty evident that you're being peer pressured to insinuate that any part of the blame for the great recession lies with middle-class Americans - which is of course hilarious.
You're smarter than this I hope.
Nice strawman.Yeah, what the fuck do people need houses for anyway. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
You're right about one thing. The middle class had zero to do with the great recession. As every recession and downturn, it was totally created by the upper class, who benefit during the bubble and bust cycle.You've said absolutely nothing that disproves what I said - it's pretty evident that you're being peer pressured to insinuate that any part of the blame for the great recession lies with middle-class Americans - which is of course hilarious.
You're smarter than this I hope.
You do understand that Biden was projected as a massive winner and the Democrats were positioned to make huge gains through all levels of government? The bottomless campaign spending by Democrats resulted in mostly failure. You do understand that, right? I guess we get to hear the true governor of Georgia tell is how Trump should concede even though she did the exact opposite in her failed campaign.there, edited for actual reality, and the one truth that really did bring us to this point.
I think it's more of people buying houses they couldn't afford and over-leveraging themselves based on their income.
The rough debt-to-income ratio I seen thrown around is 3:1. I personally think that's too aggressive. 2.5:1 or less is better IMO, but that also means cheap housing needs to be available.
Nice strawman.
Nobody is talking about how these high risk loans were then bundled into securities and other new fangled financial instruments that made them tasty on the secondary market. In many cases the banks wouldn't have made those loans if the couldn't just flip them for a quick buck
You do understand that Biden was projected as a massive winner and the Democrats were positioned to make huge gains through all levels of government? The bottomless campaign spending by Democrats resulted in mostly failure. You do understand that, right? I guess we get to hear the true governor of Georgia tell is how Trump should concede even though she did the exact opposite in her failed campaign.
I agree, for someone with a college education, a loan isn't that complex. However, are you aware of the percent of Americans that can't complete middle school level math? These people don't understand interest rates. While I agree the lenders weren't solely responsible, there is no doubt that there was a lot of predatory lending going on. A lot of the regulations put in place to protect borrowers from predatory lending had been stripped away, making the loan process even less understandable to underinformed borrowers.My emphasis on collateral was to explain the circumstances that led to the housing bust.
Putting 100% of the blame on the lender just seems silly and, quite frankly, like you know jack shit about lending.
First, loan documents are actually not that complex or beyond a typical consumer's comprehension. That's condescending IMO. A borrower should be able to look at the LE, CD, note, and DOT and know how much they're borrowing and what the monthly payment will be, as those things are clearly spelt out. So are interest rate and fees. The rest of that mountain of legal docs is mostly standard for every borrower. And while lenders can and should say no to a borrower whose DTI is excessive, it's still up to the borrower to decide if they're comfortable with that payment. Just because they can be approved for a particular payment doesn't mean they should accept it.
Second, lenders don't and can't control the borrower's choices. Lenders don't pick the collateral, for example, they only obtain title and appraisal to determine that it's acceptable collateral. But those things won't tell us if, for example, the HVAC is going to go out 10 months later, hitting the borrower with a huge bill that will affect their ability to repay. And no amount of documentation and analysis is going to mitigate the potential risk that a borrower might get laid off, or divorced, or transferred or whatever.
And finally, people are responsible for their own actions. So of course, lenders should not make loans that they know have low probabilities of repayment. Or engage in lending practices that might lead to market bubbles. But at the same time, there is no such thing as a loan with a 100% certain probability of repayment, if only because inevitability the choice to repay belongs with the individual borrower.
Lending, at the individual loan level, is not a science. It just isn't. It can't be.
He still hasn’t recovered from Hillary losing.Trump still lost. Hopefully you'll get it over it someday.
I think it's more of people buying houses they couldn't afford and over-leveraging themselves based on their income.
The rough debt-to-income ratio I seen thrown around is 3:1. I personally think that's too aggressive. 2.5:1 or less is better IMO, but that also means cheap housing needs to be available.
It is sad that Biden didn't do better, bit I know you discount a 6-7 million person popular vote win is not much of a margin. That's a lot of bad hombres better. Not to mention, a 304 electoral vote win is a landslide to your cult leader, so 306 must be an even bigger landslide.You do understand that Biden was projected as a massive winner and the Democrats were positioned to make huge gains through all levels of government? The bottomless campaign spending by Democrats resulted in mostly failure. You do understand that, right? I guess we get to hear the true governor of Georgia tell is how Trump should concede even though she did the exact opposite in her failed campaign.
Maybe not control, but they can do quite a bit. They can zone appropriately to increase supply. They can provide resources for affordable housing development. They can also streamline the permit process and make that more affordable. Something America really needs to take some lessons from European nations on.Which the government cannot control.
Maybe not control, but they can do quite a bit. They can zone appropriately to increase supply. They can provide resources for affordable housing development. They can also streamline the permit process and make that more affordable. Something America really needs to take some lessons from European nations on.
I agree, for someone with a college education, a loan isn't that complex. However, are you aware of the percent of Americans that can't complete middle school level math? These people don't understand interest rates. While I agree the lenders weren't solely responsible, there is no doubt that there was a lot of predatory lending going on. A lot of the regulations put in place to protect borrowers from predatory lending had been stripped away, making the loan process even less understandable to underinformed borrowers.
Lenders may not be able to control a borrower's choices, but they can mislead them and manipulate them. Car dealerships are particularly notorious for this. They intentionally try to manipulate the buyer from paying attention to the interest rate and total amount paid, and instead try to get the buyer to focus exclusively on the monthly payment. In the housing market, there were a lot of lenders pushing buyers, trying (and succeeding) at convincing people that they could afford a bigger loan than the borrower really could, using variable interest rates to try to pull buyers in, telling them the house was an investment that the buyer could make easy money off of because it would appreciate at an unsustainable rate forever.
People are responsible for their own actions to the extent that they actually understand what is going on and have been given the tools to responsibly engage in the arena. Otherwise, its taking advantage of people and then blaming the victim. This is why we have regulations protecting individuals from predatory practices.
It was a factor, one of the mechanisms that allowed it to happen, but I wouldn't say it was the primary cause.
Yeah, sure don't.Don't want those dirty minorities getting into that affordable housing and invading the burbs now do ya?
Are you insane - the primary reason cheap housing does not exist is the government prohibits it.Which the government cannot control.
ding-ding-ding. The cost of housing, healthcare, and college have grown enormously in the last 40 odd years, while incomes have not.
No, it's shitty to blame people for wanting to live in a house. Do you live in a house?
It was a factor, one of the mechanisms that allowed it to happen, but I wouldn't say it was the primary cause.
Why are we going over all this again? We clearly didn't learn anything from it. We voted Republican again, and predictably they deregulated the markets, and the bubbles are once again growing. Does it matter why it happened last time when we have no intention of preventing it from happening again?
Are you insane - the primary reason cheap housing does not exist is the government prohibits it.
It is prohibited by local codes, not federal codes.Can you provide the federal code that "prohibits" it?
As off-topic as the OP derailed his own thread, I think we should circle back to @sao123's comments and discuss that only a conservative here claimed that their identity gives them the 'right' to rule this country over the will of the majority and by force if necessary. A situation we are currently watching play out on the national stage. But liberals and their identity politics, amirite @s0me0nesmind1 ?