Will have the FX 8350 in tomorrow

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
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We need any help in any certain projects? I've had PrimeGrid and Einstein going along with SIMAP and asteroid. Seems like Einstein/Primegrid getting most of my CPU/GPU right now. I'm thinking of using this X4 965 eventually as a secondary cruncher and pairing with a better Radeon than an x1950xtx which prob is too slow to get any WUs. Here's what I'll have in tomorrow to pair with my 580GTX. Probably won't get done reloading everything until later tomorrow night.

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113284

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1

CPU HSF: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118046

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
I've got it in and it's running well so far. 100% load and getting 46c max temp running stock. I'm folding all eight cores on SIMAP for the night.
 

Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
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damn...8 cores (well, almost 8 cores, but who wants to argue semantics anyways?) and 4 PCIe x16 slots! if anything, you need more GPUs to saturate the PCIe bus and make use of all those CPU cores...
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
I plan on populating it with more GPUs. I'm going to buy a new PSU next, and then decide on if I want to continue down the NVIDIA route or go back to an AMD crossfire setup. This PSU is 5 years old and I think it might be the reason for my old system hanging, and a hang last night when I had the GPU and CPU under full load. It could have been a driver issue though. My old Windows 7 install was around three years old. I did a late night format and let my CPU's crunch over night. Which failed because the system went into sleep lol. Im about to leave and plan on letting it fold overnight doing CPU only until I get back on SIMAP. Used to be top 20 team and looks like we've fallen back some. Going to see if I can get us back higher and then even out the load later on. I'm looking into the Seasonic 750/850 M2II line. I don't think my current PSU is failing to provide enough juice, it's probably a bad cap. Five years old and not the highest quality to start off with. It's been under a lot of load over the years doing DC off and on. I may use it to do CPU only on my P2 965 BE rig which I still have and only need an old HDD to load an OS on. :thumbsup:


damn...8 cores (well, almost 8 cores, but who wants to argue semantics anyways?) and 4 PCIe x16 slots! if anything, you need more GPUs to saturate the PCIe bus and make use of all those CPU cores...
 

Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
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that's a wise decision regarding the PSU. a quality PSU is especially important to us crunchers, b/c our systems are typically under much more load far more often than the average user/gamer.
 

Bubbleawsome

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2013
4,833
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Depends on your budget really GPU wise. If it's just for DC I would go 7970/7990/titan because, compared to tahiti, GK106 is compute weak. GK110 is great though, titan beats a 7990 handily. I have no info on the GK110 780 though. PSU wise, I've known 3 people that had these with dual 680/7970, it's a pretty good PSU. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011 And it's about $120 with rebates here.
 
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Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
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Depends on your budget really GPU wise. If it's just for DC I would go 7970/7990/titan because, compared to tahiti, GK106 is compute weak. GK110 is great though, titan beats a 7990 handily. I have no info on the GK110 780 though. PSU wise, I've known 3 people that had these with dual 680/7970, it's a pretty good PSU. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011 And it's about $120 with rebates here.
while GFLOPs are GFLOPs, unfortunately its not as simple as just comparing AMD to nVidia on that metric alone. it is highly project-specific, and i recommend you do your research before you just buy the card w/ higher GFLOPs.

as regards the 7990, i would steer clear of that piece of hardware. even w/ Brad's humungous 4 PCIe x16 slot mobo, they won't perform as well as one might think. from top to bottom, those slots' max bandwidths are x16, x8, x16, x4. w/ dual 7990s in the x16 slots, you'd still need a 3rd video card to run the display...unless you want to run the display off of one of the 7990s, in which case your GUI might get choppy and laggy if your also crunching on it. if you went the 3rd video card route, you'd want to use it in the x4 slot, b/c if you use it in the x8 slot between the x16 slots, the lower x16 slot drops down to x8 bandwidth. since the 7990 is a dual-GPU card, each GPU is already limited to half of the PCIe slot's bandwidth...so the two GPUs on the 7990 in the lower x16 slot would only send and receive data at x4 bandwidth when the slot just above it is populated. from both a performance and cost perspective, i think 3 or 4 7970's is better than 2 7990s.

the Titan wouldn't be a bad idea were it not for the cost. it is a single-GPU card that in the worst case scenario would only get x8 bandwidth on that mobo. but again i wonder if multiple GTX 680s wouldn't be more effective from both performance and cost perspectives, if not from a power consumption perspective.

its also unfortunate that the MSI 990FXA-GD80 has that pesky 4th PCIe x16 slot that's limited to x4 bandwidth, and cannot auto arrange to x8 x8 x8 x8 with 3 or 4 slots populated like its predecessors, the 890FXA-GD80 and the 790FX-GD70.
 

Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
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the problem w/ that comparison is that the dual GPUs in the 7990 are inseparably X-fired, and cannot function as two non-X-fired GPUs. so i suppose AT felt it necessary for comparison's sake to X-fire two 7970GEs in order to get what they felt was an apples-to-apples comparison. if they had bothered to test the 7970GEs out of X-fire, they might have found that such a setup outperforms a single 7990. when it comes to games, X-fire is great...when it comes to crunching, X-fire is the enemy - run your dual, triple, or quad GPU setups out of X-fire/SLI for crunching.
 

Sunny129

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Nov 14, 2000
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well i should say that the above is true more often than not, but it isn't true 100% of the time. it varies from project to project, and some projects may not even make use of X-fire/SLI (even when it is enabled) due to the coding of the application and/or the nature of the data being crunched. those projects, which i believe make up only a small fraction of all DC projects out there, are obviously the few that don't seem to be affected by X-fire or SLI.

i would say though that the vast majority of DC projects that allow GPU computing do benefit from not X-firing or SLIing. the premise is that, when gaming, neither X-fire nor SLI scale perfectly...that is to say, two 7970s in X-fire does not equal twice the performance of a single 7970 - rather its a bit less than twice the performance of a single 7970 (and sometimes substantially less depending on the game being played). tri-fire/SLI performance scaling is even worse than dual card X-fire/SLI, and quad-fire/SLI scaling is even worse than tri-fire/SLI scaling...

...but take those GPUs out of X-fire/SLI, and all of the sudden each video card has the potential to reach its maximum individual performance, provided there is no PCIe bandwidth bottleneck (which lies in selecting the right mobo). in this "no X-fire/SLI" configuration, some dual card setups and some triple card setups can truly achieve the performance of two and three individual cards (in other words, 100% performance scaling...unheard of in the X-fire/SLI world). most mobos these days have at least 2 PCIe x16 slots, one of which has full x16 bandwidth, while the other has only x8 bandwidth. the first slot operates at full x16 bandwidth when the other is not populated. but when the 2nd x16 slot is populated, the first slot drops down to x8 operation to match that of the 2nd occupied slot. this is the most common inherent (built into the hardware) PCIe bandwidth bottleneck - 2 cards simply cannot double the performance of a single card, X-fire/SLI or not, b/c PCIe bandwidth to the top PCIe x16 slot is cut in half when running 2 cards.

some of the newer generation intel chipset mobos (thought i'm not sure about AMD chipset mobos) have at least 2 PCIe x16 slots that can operate at full x16 bandwidth all the time. obviously those mobos will allow 100% performance scaling w/ 2 cards.

mobos that have 3 PCIe x16 slots can't operate all 3 at full x16 bandwidth, and are usually auto-arranged to something like x16 x16 x0 w/ 2 cards installed, and x16 x8 x8 when 3 cards are installed. obviously these mobos are capable of 100% performance scaling w/ 2 cards, but not 3 cards.

earlier in the thread i mentioned some mobos w/ 4 PCIe x16 slots. the one purchased by the OP can achieve 100% scaling w/ 2 cards, but not 3 cards b/c the slots arrange to x16 x8 x8 with 3 cards installed. neither my MSI 790FX-GD70 nor its successor, the MSI 890FXA-GD80, can achieve 100% performance scaling w/ 2 cards b/c once the 3rd or 4th (or both) PCIe x16 slots are occupied, the 1st or 2nd (or both) PCIe x16 slots, which are the ones that are otherwise capable of full x16 bandwidth, drop down to x8 bandwidth. the same can be said about occupying all 4 slots - 100% performance scaling cannot be achieved

i believe Gigabyte had a mobo with 5 PCIe x16 slots on it (can't remember the exact model, though i believe it used an AMD 890FX chipset), but i can't recall anything really special about its PCIe lane or slot arrangement due to spacing constraints. ASUS had the Crosshair IV Extreme, which also was an 890FX chipset mobo that had 5 PCIe x16 slots. this board was actually capable of running 3 cards at full x16 bandwidth (and therefore at 100% performance scaling), and in 2 different slot configurations no less!

OP, hope i'm not derailing the thread, and despite this mostly being the answer to someone else's question, hopefully i was also able to provide some insight into the PCIe limits of your new mobo or, perhaps pointed out some things you might not have known about it so you can choose your future GPUs wisely.
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
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Been having stability problems. Couple of system hangs under load, and then BSOD. Troubleshooted the bsod and seems to be different driver each time. Swapped the memory out and got some more stability doing cpu only. Then engaged the GPU during crunching and right at the moment the GPU task started got a reboot. PSU can't handle the load.

 

Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
4,823
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I think what Brad is saying is that his new parts don't work well with his old PSU. he couldn't have yet possibly taken delivery of the HX750 he just ordered...when it arrives, i'm fairly confident it'll eliminate all these system crashes he's getting. plus, he'll have far more power than he actually needs in order to run just an FX 8350 and a single GTX 580 (in fact, with the HX750, he'll probably have the headroom for another GPU or two)...so its probably not a matter of power capacity, as 750W should be plenty for now.
 
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Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
I formatted last night again and was up until 1AM lol. I kept researching the BSOD minidumps. I had a couple being traced back to the AMDUSBFILTER.SYS driver after loading debuggint tools and symbols. This go around I downloaded the newest AMD FX990 chipset drivers off their site off the AMD website, and left the USB 3.0 disabled. It's been steady so far doing CPU/GPU. Regardless if it was the AMD USB driver or not. I wanted the 750 Watt and the old PSU will go into the secondary rig to do CPU crunching and maybe one GPU. I've got Asteroid@home and einstein@home going right now. Asking my wife what the temps are via SMS. MSI has an app to monitor it remotely but I have a Windows Phone lol. :|

I think what Brad is saying is that his new parts don't work well with his old PSU. he couldn't have yet possibly taken delivery of the HX750 he just ordered...when it arrives, i'm fairly confident it'll eliminate all these system crashes he's getting. plus, he'll have far more power than he actually needs in order to run just an FX 8350 and a single GTX 580 (in fact, with the HX750, he'll probably have the headroom for another GPU or two)...so its probably not a matter of power capacity, as 750W should be plenty for now.
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
PC hung folding while I was away. So it wasn't the drivers. It never actually blue screened this time though. I'm home now letting it do CPU folding only.
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
I meant crunching on both the CPU/GPU for Einstein. Bad news, it BSOD on me with the new PSU which was a fear of mine. I've since removed the GTX 580, uninstalled all the nvidia drivers, and tried other things I wrote down. I've increased my RAM voltage a little bit, and downclocked it to DDR3 1333 speeds. Along with disabling extra CPU features like Cool and Quiet. I'm leaving it CPU crunching over night on Asteroids@home, SIMAP, and Cosmology@home. I really hope it's not a bad motherboard or weak/defective CPU Core. I've got the newest AMD Chipset drivers installed also and had the newest Nvidia drivers at the time. Right now it's just going to be a process of elimination. I got my Phenom 2 965 BE if need be for tomorrow to try.

wait i'm confused - are you Folding or crunching Einstein@Home? or are you doing both (that is, folding on the CPU and crunching Einstein@Home on the GPU)?
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
So far no problems little over 12 hours. Never made it this long before. Was reading that the 990FXA-GD80 can be RAM picky especially with the ripjaws I have. I think I'm going to let it run until bed time tonight and then reintroduce the GTX 580. Hopefully disabling Cool and Quiet, increasing ram voltage helped.
 

Sunny129

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2000
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ahh, i see...i probably should have realized that, given that folks use the terms folding and crunching interchangeably.

ant any rate, sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble w/ your new parts. i was hopeful that the old PSU was the problem...since you've found out that the Ripjaws memory doesn't always play nice w/ your mobo, i would check the memory next. hopefully you have some extra RAM laying around...or perhaps you could borrow it from another machine temporarily just for testing purposes.
 

Bradtech519

Senior member
Jul 6, 2010
520
47
91
I'd like to have the Corsair anyways even if it wasn't the problem. It did CPU only from 1030 PM last night up until 520 PM today without a crash. I've reintroduced the GTX 580 into the fold now. I should know within a couple hours at least if it is the problem. It didn't go but about an hour until BSOD last time. Temps on the GPU don't exceed 60c.

ahh, i see...i probably should have realized that, given that folks use the terms folding and crunching interchangeably.

ant any rate, sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble w/ your new parts. i was hopeful that the old PSU was the problem...since you've found out that the Ripjaws memory doesn't always play nice w/ your mobo, i would check the memory next. hopefully you have some extra RAM laying around...or perhaps you could borrow it from another machine temporarily just for testing purposes.
 
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