Will HDR on PC be a disaster?

[cmdrdredd]

Sony announced their Ultra app will support 4k HDR streaming only if you have a Kaby Lake Intel CPU. If not, no HDR from the app. The way I read it is it won't work without it even if you have a GPU with the proper HDMI version to pass the metadata on to the TV.

According to WCCFTech Nvidia will support HDR gaming only if you use gamestream from a Pascal GPU to an Nvidia Shield hooked up to a HDR TV since as of yet there are no HDR monitors available. They say nothing about running HDMI directly to the TV or through a compatable AVR to get HDR to your TV. Is this really how it'll work? You need a $200 box in addition to your $400+ GPU just to get HDR to your TV when HDMI 2.0a can handle the metadata and color information perfectly fine on its own? That seems utterly ridiculous. What about AMD? Nvidia claims they are working on getting some titles updated for HDR but does that mean if you have an AMD CPU those games won't be in HDR at all? Is there some sort of standard on the PC for implementing HDR into a game that works with either brand?

Further Nvidia claims they are working to get Netflix streaming in HDR on the PC via Microsoft's PlayReady 3.0. From what I've read about PlayReady 3.0 is that it's hardware based DRM. Do all the components in the system have to have this compatibility for HDR streaming to pass through? Meaning if you use an older CPU but have a new GTX1080 that you can't get HDR because you need a new CPU?

All this makes it seem like they are trying to fail. Hardware locking, requiring extra hardware to get the signal to your TV in games, hardware based DRM potentially locking you out of content access. To me it seems like it'll be one big disaster that makes adopting a game changing technology almost impossible for the PC. I'm trying to figure all this out and my reading today has made it seem like a huge failure right out of the gate.

 

[tential]

No I just think the adoption rate will be painfully slow. 4k+hdr will not be adopted fast as 1080p is still "good enough" for people.

Personally I'm mindboggled how people are still OK with 1080p 60hz. 4k 120hz hdr is what I want but I'll have to settle for something less than that sadly.

 

[mnewsham]

I doubt it, there just aren't any products on the market for the average consumer so there isn't average consumer support yet.

 

[cmdrdredd]

No guys, read the things I said in the post not just the title as I think you missed what I'm talking about. There is some info beginning to come out on the first HDR content that can be used from a PC and it seems to have all kinds of strange requirements that will further hurt adoption rate beyond having the proper TV and HDMI 2.0a capability. That is to say it appears like certain content will be limited to certain hardware and stuff like that. I'm wondering if there are further details on some of this, specifically as it related to getting HDR games and how PlayReady 3.0 works. I refuse to spend $400 or more on a GPU only to need an additional $200 box to stream games to my TV when HDMI to the TV should be enough and whether or not games in HDR are going to be brand agnostic so you could use any GPU. I'm also wondering if every component from the CPU to the GPU needs PlayReady 3.0 support or if it's just the GPU.

If it really does work the way initial info indicates then it might not be enticing for people to have to buy new hardware etc.

 

[Elixer]

AFAIK, to get HDR, you need a monitor that supports it, and drivers/hardware, and yeah, software that supports it.
In one of AMD's HDR talks, they said they can bring HDR over HDMI or DP on their current 300 series of products and higher, all that is needed is a driver update.

See here: https://youtu.be/hvD37UUcdIo?t=367

 

[cmdrdredd]

AFAIK, to get HDR, you need a monitor that supports it, and drivers/hardware, and yeah, software that supports it.
In one of AMD's HDR talks, they said they can bring HDR over HDMI or DP on their current 300 series of products and higher, all that is needed is a driver update.

See here: https://youtu.be/hvD37UUcdIo?t=367

Similar to how the Nvidia shield got a firmware update from HDMI 2.0 to 2.0a because the hardware was there, just needed the software. I have an HDR TV etc I just wonder if what Nvidia says is true that you need to run through a shield box via gamestream to get HDR to the TV. That seems wrong if AMD can do it without an external box. Maybe you don't "need" the Shield but can use it that way. I haven't confirmed either way. I saw that CES report on AMD HDR before, but I can't find any information about whether games will have some universal HDR support that anyone can use or if it will be vender dependent depending on the title which would be terribly stupid. The way the wccftech article I found reads to me like Nvidia is trying to gain exclusivity but I could have read more into it than what was there and am incorrect on how it'll work. There is admittedly very little information available on HDR from windows. I'd just like to know what type of hardware I'll need to take advantage of it. The first games are supposed to be released this year with HDR on the Xbox One S. I can only assume an update for the PC won't be far behind.

 

[VirtualLarry]

And where is VESA in all of this? Video Electronics Standard Association. They should be the people in charge of setting standards for things like this, but I fear vendor-supplied proprietary DRM-based "standards" are taking precedence.

 

[tential]

It's not that your post wasn't read but I mean it's way too early to tell what the standards are for hdr.

I don't think it will get that far for most buyers. Most people don't even care about 4k, oled, hdr, etc. So I don't think any of the stuff you listed is going to be the thing that stops hdr on PC.

I'm not even sure how what you posted is relevant to PC. It's all TV related stuff it has nothing to do with how hdr will be implemented on PC.

 

[Azix]

only if there was a competitor. Things like that will simply become the norm over time. Even if its 10 yeras, we'll eventually all have hdr screens.

 

[Yakk]

Hmm... AMD cards have been HDR capable for years as they run HDR internally before scaling down to whatever display is plugged in. A driver update is all they need to deliver full HDR content on non-FirePRO cards. As far as I know AMD have been waiting for the market to catch up, like their heavy use of DP connectors half a decade+ back with the 5000 series cards.

 

[freeskier93]

Hmm... AMD cards have been HDR capable for years as they run HDR internally before scaling down to whatever display is plugged in. A driver update is all they need to deliver full HDR content on non-FirePRO cards. As far as I know AMD have been waiting for the market to catch up, like their heavy use of DP connectors half a decade+ back with the 5000 series cards.

I don't think you know what HDR is...

Also, HDR on the Xbox One S is broken on a lot of TVs because HDR10 kind of suck as a standard. I wouldn't hold your breath in the desktop space.

 

[Raising]

The whole HDR concept is stupid, why would I want my monitor to change brightness on its own ?

I prefer not to be blinded randomly tyvm...

Give me a reliable OLED panel instead.

 

[freeskier93]

The whole HDR concept is stupid, why would I want my monitor to change brightness on its own ?

I prefer not to be blinded randomly tyvm...

Give me a reliable OLED panel instead.

HDR doesn't do that...

 

[Raising]

HDR doesn't do that...

It sure looked like it last time I saw one, nothing more than a gimmick to make people buy new monitors

 

[Bacon1]

I don't think you know what HDR is...

HDR as it pertains to monitors and GPUs is just a higher range of colors and better blacks. AMD cards already are doing this and then having to modify the colors to fit the monitors (reducing color range).

http://www.redgamingtech.com/interv...ock-polaris-graphics-technology-vr-dx12-more/

 

[freeskier93]

It sure looked like it last time I saw one, nothing more than a gimmick to make people buy new monitors

I think what you are seeing is the higher contrast making whites appear brighter. HDR doesn't do anything with backlight brightness though.

 

[Vaporizer]

I would be not surprised if HDR will be used by MV to create another golden wall for their customers since the people also support and buy Gsync readily.
Lets see if we get FreeHDR from somewhere.

 

[freeskier93]

HDR as it pertains to monitors and GPUs is just a higher range of colors and better blacks. AMD cards already are doing this and then having to modify the colors to fit the monitors (reducing color range).

http://www.redgamingtech.com/interv...ock-polaris-graphics-technology-vr-dx12-more/

Okay, but you used the word "scaling". Very different then tone mapping.

I'm also not sure it's a safe assumption to say ALL game engines render ALL parts in >8-bit color.

 

[Madpacket]

I'm excited for HDR but more for VR then on standard monitors. HDR adds immersion which should help advance VR. Sure we'll get some crappy LED TV's to choose from that claim 1000000000000000:1 contrast and support some half-assed HDR standard. I'll let all that dust settle and pick up a good 8K TV in five years that will hopefully be able to deliver a proper experience.

 

[Piroko]

The whole HDR concept is stupid, why would I want my monitor to change brightness on its own? I prefer not to be blinded randomly tyvm...

Give me a reliable OLED panel instead.

OLED is actually the best technology for HDR because of its infinite contrast. I know of some "high contrast" screens that achieved the higher contrast through changing the local backlight brightness, but those are not proper HDR. HDR itself does not play with the backlight brightness, it's just a fancy way of saying that your screen has much higher contrast (more natural) and higher peak brightness (also more natural).

Proper HDR content will need to take care to not blind the viewer randomly though, glaring brightness should only be used when the viewer expects a glaring light.

 

[Yakk]

I don't think you know what HDR is...

Hehehe, I have a good idea what HDR is...

HDR as it pertains to monitors and GPUs is just a higher range of colors and better blacks. AMD cards already are doing this and then having to modify the colors to fit the monitors (reducing color range).

http://www.redgamingtech.com/interv...ock-polaris-graphics-technology-vr-dx12-more/

Here we go.

 

[Piroko]

Hehehe, I have a good idea what HDR is...

I do think you're confusing color accuracy (10 Bit) with color range (HDR). HDR is a fairly new topic.

 

[A5]

Most of these issues will be solved by the time there are enough HDR sinks and content on the market for it to be considered by the mainstream. I'm not worried about it at the moment.

 

[Deders]

Any idea when HDR monitors are going to be available? Don't want to upgrade mine and then find out they are about to release HDR,

 

[Yakk]

I do think you're confusing color accuracy (10 Bit) with color range (HDR). HDR is a fairly new topic.

Suite yourself.