Will Intel eventually buy AMD?

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Mar 10, 2006
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Huge

Just their server division makes more than 11 billion revenue per year, and 5 billion income for that division.

To put that in comparison, AMD assets is a little over 4 billion, but they have a lot of debt so their total equity is barely over 500 million. The value of all their stock on the stock exchange if you want to buy the company is a little over 2.4 billion.

Now Intel's pc group revenue is 33 billion and the income is 11 billion, and if you add up all the other divisions revenue such as software and the internet of things is about another 10 billion.

Here are the 2013 numbers
http://www.intc.com/intel-annual-report/2013/10K/30-results-of-operations.html

In 2014 it was $14.38b in sales and $7.27b in profit
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
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Apple ships expensive CPUs with Intel-only pathetic iGPUs.

And it's exactly what their customers want? Most people don't play cutting-edge games on their laptops. They play online games and watch movies...

For most mobile users, battery life is a lot more important than gaming fps.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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OP, I think you have it in reverse. Things really only start getting interesting when ARM starts encroaching significantly on x86's bread and butter; ie. PC and Server. I mean (performance) laptops and desktops for real work. In other words, it takes Intel's monopoly to get broken in these areas before it can make the move you're talking about.

I however, see another problem. Would the US government allow a non-US company to buy AMD? I think not; for strategic military reasons, ultimately.

Edit: So that rules out Samsung and the likes. Intel may still be able to acquire AMD. So would Apple.
 
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tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
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Apple could do something about it if it wanted to, and yet they prefer to not to. They could add a dGPU for instance, but they don't, and given the amount of unsold inventory at AMD they could get a hell of a deal there if their processors were barely up to the task.

dGPUs have their own issues, especially in laptops where power consumption is key (also witness Apple's recall of laptops with Nvidia chipsets)

Just because Intel's solution is the best of a set of bad options doesn't mean they like it.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
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Name one x86 competitor to Intel in the entire history of x86 that Intel has EVER bought.

Well, this the bottom line; so this thread shouldn't really ever come up again (if people actually used the search function).
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
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Name one x86 competitor to Intel in the entire history of x86 that Intel has EVER bought.
Well, this the bottom line; so this thread shouldn't really ever come up again (if people actually used the search function).

they wouldn't be buying it for the x86 part, so I'm not sure how relevant that is

hmm, maybe they would just buy ati from amd . . . then have an agreement that amd can license ati graphics for x years then move to imagination or whoever
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
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hmm, maybe they would just buy ati from amd . . . then have an agreement that amd can license ati graphics for x years then move to imagination or whoever

Intel doesn't need 'ATI' graphics either. Their iGPU is progressing just fine WRT market demand. I believe, IIRC, that Intel already has an x-licensing deal with AMD that includes AMD graphics and still choose not to use it.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
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Intel doesn't need 'ATI' graphics either. Their iGPU is progressing just fine WRT market demand.

no, it's sadly pathetic

I believe, IIRC, that Intel already has an x-licensing deal with AMD that includes AMD graphics and still choose not to use it.

absolutely not
patent cross-licensing != ip cross-licensing
 

Madpacket

Platinum Member
Nov 15, 2005
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This thread is coming up again because market conditions are changing. Intel overall still has barely acceptable integrated graphics and they could use AMD for a bunch of IP to help them with the inevitable competition from Nvidia and whatever Qualcomm or Samsung come up with. The competition will in the mobile space not on the desktop or server areas.
 

jdubs03

Senior member
Oct 1, 2013
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The list of arguments pertaining to this topic has been exhausted. It won't happen due to anti-trust concerns. However, a company like Apple could choose to buy them (as has been mentioned); it would be a drop in the bucket to them and would further consolidate their Appleverse. Though I'm not sure what would happen to the x86 license that AMD currently has.

In regards to Intel and their iGPU, there has been progress though not as much as many (including me) would want, but from what has been leaked out Skylake and Gen 9 graphics is going to be a solid improvement over Gen 8, so we have that to look forward to.

If we can get 25+% gains in FPS I would be satisfied. But with two GPU upgrades within a year the landscape will look a bit better on the iGPU side.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Intels integrated graphics i would say overall is about half the level of AMDs, not counting iris pro which in a mobile TDP is very close to AMDs best desktop part. Overall though, igps from either manufacturer are only marginally competent for gaming, and make no sense at all on the desktop where one can add a discrete card. Intel igps are fine for basis use, and the market has clearly spoken that amds edge in graphics is not a compelling feature.

But back on topic, I dont think intel would want to purchase amd, but it is a moot point anyway, because the govt would never allow it.
 

Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
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With the trend of everything going low power, smart phones ever increasing in capability and "the Internet of Things" and in car computing supposed to be the next big thing the fight for dominance on the desktop and laptop is becoming less and less important.

Do you think maybe in a few years time Intel will get the go ahead to buy up AMD to better compete with the likes of Samsung, Qualcomm, Apple, LG etc?

Serious question. As much as I like AMD's products I see them kind of like BlackBerry now except in a more unfair fight which will die an inevitable slow death until someone scoops them up for their IP and patent portfolio.

What do you guys think?

No Intel definitely will not buy AMD, but regardless of that AMD will soon get a very large amount of money.

http://www.vrworld.com/2015/02/09/amds-real-china-play-strategic-investment/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson


"These investments are set to begin immediately. Loongson’s targeted investments will be funded by a $19 billion war chest (120 billion RMB) that the company has set aside for such ventures.
Loongson and AMD have worked together before in the past. AMD’s HyperTransport and PCI South as well as North bridges were in previous Godson silicon, so for Loongson AMD is not entirely foreign territory. The two opened an R&D center in December 2003 in order to develop what the two hoped would be something to counter the goliath of Intel."
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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AMD should just dump GF and have Intel fab their CPUs. Win/win.

It's kind of hard to do that. Ruiz has established GF as the go-to fab for all AMD products, complete with all kinds of contractual obligations that go far beyond a static debt. I have no idea how much would be the final cost to buy AMD, retire all its contractual obligations in a manner satisfactory to all signing parties, and sort out how to actually wrench control of enough of the company from current shareholders considering how much of it Mubadala holds right now.

Without AMD, Globalfoundries is basically dead, and Mubadala would not like that at all. I am not aware that they have any volume customer outside of AMD. If you are going to buy AMD, you may as well buy GF at the same time. They are joined at the hip.

A company like Samsung might be able to pick up AMD without too much of a fight from GF, though I'm still not sure how that would work out in the end.

I however, see another problem. Would the US government allow a non-US company to buy AMD? I think not; for strategic military reasons, ultimately.

Don't be so sure about that. The US has been allowing leaks or outright sales of sensitive technology to foreign countries (notably China) since the Clinton administration (and those are the documented cases, mind you). It has been going on for awhile now, and it is probably going to continue.

What Asterox mentions (and what came up in another thread) also ought to show you that the US government is not averse to allowing certain foreign interests to meddle in AMD's affairs. AMD is partly-owned by Mubadala (UAE) and is set to receive large cash injections from a thinly-veiled research arm of the Chinese government. How American is AMD, really?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Thanks for p****** off all the amd fans under my name. In fact, i dont think amd cpus suck. If nothing else were available they would be perfectly adequate. However except for some niche cases, I feel intel offers better choices at a similar price, or much better performance at a reasonably higher cost.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Well let's see. Intel holds x86 patents and does not allow anyone to use said unless under severe duress (thank for IBM for at least trying to prevent a monopoly) I'd say you asked the most loaded question of the year.

You can call it a loaded question, you can call it a banana, call it whatever suits you.

FWIW it wasn't intended to be a loaded question, rather it was intended to be a thought-provoking leading question ala the Socratic teaching method.

The point I was originally making is that Intel has always had plenty of x86 business carcasses to pick through over these past 30 years, but they never once felt the ROI was sufficient to warrant doing so. That internal vetting process for M&A ROI is still there today, so one should interrogate history of past decision making if one wishes to proceed with insight towards projecting how Intel's decision makers might assess an M&A with AMD.

So the question would be what makes AMD any different than every other x86 business that Intel has opted to not purchase in the decades leading up till now?

Or to state it differently, outside of AMD's NexGen purchase for the K6 micro-architecture jumpstart, why has AMD also elected to not bother purchasing any other available x86 business in the past two decades?

My guess is that the perceived ROI many laymen assume would come from M&A activity in the x86 industry is not the same order of magnitude as the actual ROI that data-empowered decision makers know it to be...and so those data-empowered decision makers (be them at AMD or Intel) have intentionally opted to not bother pursuing such projects.

Also, FWIW IBM didn't force Intel to outsource to AMD so as to prevent an x86 monopoly. What IBM stipulated was that Intel had to have two geographically disparate fabs producing the x86 chips so that IBM would have acceptable risk management in the supply chain.

Intel ran the numbers and decided that it would be less costly and more profitable for Intel if they outsourced production to AMD rather than taking on the front-loaded capex hit of building out another fab themselves at that time. Intel's solution the supply-chain risk management concern was acceptable to IBM, and so it became a matter of history after that.

Few companies ever bothered worrying about licensing their architecture. DEC didn't worry about it, IBM didn't worry about it, Cray didn't worry about it. In those days it was very common for businesses to retain all rights to their homegrown architectures, but they would have multiple production locations for supply chain risk management. Intel had a business choice to make, and that was all that it was at the time.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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They have decent graphics

Unquestionably true, but with that perspective in mind we owe it to ourselves to contemplate why no other company has pursued buying AMD for the sake of gaining access to the graphics technology.

Be it Apple, Samsung, ARM, or other.

My answer to that question would be the same as given before:
Idontcare said:
My guess is that the perceived ROI many laymen assume would come from M&A activity in the x86 graphics industry is not the same order of magnitude as the actual ROI that data-empowered decision makers know it to be...and so those data-empowered decision makers (be them at AMD Samsung, Apple or Intel) have intentionally opted to not bother pursuing such projects.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
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Intel doesn't need 'ATI' graphics either. Their iGPU is progressing just fine WRT market demand. I believe, IIRC, that Intel already has an x-licensing deal with AMD that includes AMD graphics and still choose not to use it.

they are better now than 10 years ago, and they can get there, but they are far from AMD level on graphics, they are just hiding it well with their process technology lead,
 

erunion

Senior member
Jan 20, 2013
765
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They have decent graphics

Intel could have bought ATI or Nvidia a decade ago. Instead they opted to develop in house graphic. Why would they throw away all that investment? They wouldn't.

Now it is conceivable that they would want to add AMD's graphics IP to its porfolio, but not enough to buy the business.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
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Unquestionably true, but with that perspective in mind we owe it to ourselves to contemplate why no other company has pursued buying AMD for the sake of gaining access to the graphics technology.

Be it Apple, Samsung, ARM, or other.

Because they haven't been in the market of creating high performance chips before now.

AMD's graphics aren't suitable for cellphones (in their current incarnation) and Apple hasn't been designing laptop chips.

However, if Apple WERE to decide it was time to ditch Intel, buying up AMD's graphics portfolio would make a lot of sense.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
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WHY would Intel anyway want to buy AMD. AMD is the perfect way to show that Intel's CPU are "better". Its a phantom competitor, and if AMD were near bankruptcy, i'd think Intel would probably slip them a fiver or something. Just to keep them alive.

The fat n ugly friend you bring with you to make you look better.
Hilarious... in that it is probably an accurate assessment .
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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Intel could have bought ATI or Nvidia a decade ago. Instead they opted to develop in house graphic. Why would they throw away all that investment? They wouldn't.

Both ATI and Nvidia are markets too small for Intel tastes. Nvidia gets only 200MM of operating profits per quarter, while AMD should be in the red if we exclude the console chips. Why would Intel burn billions in acquiring the two companies when they can potentially make much more chasing bigger markets, like mobile?
 
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