Will Linux fade away like netscape navigator?

[Sunner]

Something I'd really like to see in Linux is a unified way of installing drivers.

I mean right now it's like, compile this NIC driver, then install this RPM package for the SCSI card, then upgrade XFRee with the right server, and finally run this binary file to install that SBLive of yours.

 

[Shudder]

Gotta love the direct customer service Customer service by the actual customers, pretty nice.

One thing I HATE about some of the distros is the way they handle the installation. Lately, I'll use Mandrake 8 as an example. I do the expert install and it goes sweet. I get to do great things like decide to do a boot floppy, where to install lilo, etc. And something that is NOT expert but is needed like the desktop resolution. When I did "recommended" I cringed at all the steps it skipped for me and made it MORE difficult for me. It used Generic instead of wheel mouse, 800x600 instead of anything higher, and for some reason it didn't set up my internet connection right.

I shouldn't have to get better results from an "expert" installation when it was actually easier and less hair-pulling.

If it moves to a unified package system (with of course tar.gz always being available) I want it so you can download the packages you need instead of watching it try to force the installation and of course fail. Bleh.

And I know MS has to be scared. That's why Win2k was so decent. Trust me, if I were still in the world of Win 98 I would have gone Linux as my main OS LONG ago.

 

[coolVariable]

HOPEFULLY Linux will fade away and all those crazy Linux-Lunatics will be blown to hell

 

[lucidguy]

<< And I fail to see how linux is a prerequisite to intelligence. >>



It is not. And I never said that it is. And I would be lying if I said it is.

Linux did not exist until about 10 years ago. If using Linux were a prerequisite to intelligence, then we started getting geniuses only about 10 years ago. You can see the fallacy in that line of thinking.

What I said is that using Linux in a committed way correlates with intelligence. Up until now, it has turned out that a number of intelligent people, who enjoy being able to tweak their operating system in very essential ways, or easily code very capable applications, or plain enjoy reading the source code of their operating system components, have chosen Linux (some have chosen BSD) over other operating systems. And almost no plain folks have chosen to do so. This is obviously changing, and this is great for Linux, but committed Linux users who contribute to the operating system and/or its application library will always be intelligent people.

Using set theory, not all intelligent people are Linux users (in fact a very tiny percentage of them are) but up until now it has been the case that almost all Linux users are intelligent people.

As for people who do not make social pleasures their number one priority in life being &quot;losers&quot;, I personally take offense at that remark. It is true that some people never properly develop their social skills, and that is why they do not make social interaction their number one priority. On the other hand, there are others who are aware of what kind of enjoyment social interaction brings them, and what kind of enjoyment programming brings them, and prefer the latter kind of enjoyment over the former.

In fact, these sorts of people tend to be the very people who have brought you, over the years, your most favorite Linux applications at the low-low price of $0.00. The least you can do out of respect for these people is not call them losers. Without people like them, the rest of you with your beer-stained shirts would be beholden to the Microsoft tax within a few years.

 

[Sunner]

Read my post for crying out loud!

See that last line about replacing &quot;loser&quot; with &quot;in need of help, I put it there for a reason.

And yes I believe anyone who thinks a computer is a substitute for friends is in serious need of help.

And in case anyone wonders, the reason why I didnt just edit the whole post was cause its fscking annoying when posts that people have replied to are edited, so that the replies make no sense, hence I left the post as it was.

 

[Shudder]

I'll break lucidguy's argument into a simple cause-effect.

Linux does NOT cause intelligence.

Intelligence does however cause Linux. It's that simple.

 

[lucidguy]

<< And yes I believe anyone who thinks a computer is a substitute for friends is in serious need of help. >>



This is a very ignorant way of thinking. Are you saying that Chinese and Tibetan monks, who spend their entire lives meditating and trying to reach enlightenment, are &quot;in need of help&quot;? Are you saying that you are better than them because you have had more beer and you have banged more chicks?

A life of social interaction and a life of meditation offer different kinds of pleasures. Some people are more extroverted and prefer the stimulations of social interaction. Some people are more introverted and prefer more meditative affairs such as Yoga, math, programming, and so on. Most people prefer a mixture of the two. A social life and a meditative life are both valid lifestyle choices.

 

[TravisBickle]

Linux will obviously not fade away because there are too many clever people committed to the idea, but the real question is where will it be?
as an alternative Linux depends on:
Comprehensive hardware support
Accessibility
Killer Apps

right now Linux is for the desktop really a Toy OS for geeks, right? I expect the Accessibility will improve, so that maybe is can be a cost-effective alternative to MS, but in the business sector they'll cling on to the apps they know how to use. hardware developers will have driver costs almost doubled if they want to hold onto their secrets. don't expect a takeover anytime soon (in the next 5 years)

 

[CocaCola5]

It good to know Linux will be around to keep MS on good behavior. Competing breeds innovations and I think MS has been pretty lazy with new things(adding features is not innovation). I also think its MS thats the cancer for the industry not Linux.

As to Linux and intelligence, anti-social, etc., I think this depends on the definition of intelligence. A broad definition of intelligence could be, a person's general capacity for learning new complexities of things. Therefore, I don't think a persons ability to socialize in a general sense has any favor or points towards intelligence. General socializing like in friendship/meeting new people, you can argue, is a repetative activity that has nothing to do with intelligence but more with positive or negative personal feedback for a person. This would explains why people tend to socialize with a particular group of people because it provides them a certain positive feedback they are looking for. The idea is, socializing is an ingredient for well being and personal satisfaction, but ultimately it does not equate to intelligence. A person who might be a loner/anti-social and works alone and understanding new complex things is intelligent. Where as a person who is surrounded by friends and friendship but is not focus towards understanding complex things is not intelligent, although, she/he might be a extremely happy person, full of positive reinforcement. So the question is, wheres the positive reinforcement for the anti-social Linux programmer geek that she/he need to be a happy person?. The answer is, problem solving. If the idea in life is to be happy than its much better to be a fun going extrovert than a intelligent introvert because its easier.

 

[CocaCola5]

Of course, the best of all is a extrovert thats very intelligent. But this is extremely rare, geniouses usually fall under the category of loners.

 

[smp]

Elitism sucks!!! If you're a nerdy, linux using, programming type guy taht makes ppl on irc feel bad for asking a question, then you're no better than Jocko boy who's &quot;banged more chicks and drank more beer&quot;.. it's all about respect, socially I mean. If you can program in hex and all that crap, but you're an pontificating, condescending (sp?) asshole, then I don't count that as intelligence. Intelligence doesn't equate to math skills, it equates to life skills.. OF ALL KINDS. That being said, I'll go on to the more on topic response.

I'm only worried about linux, because of the kind of elistist structure that keeps it going. All the hardcore programmers and linux nerds will leave it if becomes popular and commercial. I don't think it would be healthy for linux to be a desktop mom and pop OS, because that would be the end of it.. no more geeks.. no more linux. And the geeks will leave if it comes to be a new Windows. Look at any &quot;scene&quot; in history, the &quot;coolest&quot; members of said scene leave that scene once it becomes everyday. Part of the allure with linux, is that it's not everyday, and it's not ordinary or common. And yeah, I can understand how people feel &quot;superiority&quot; (even though I don't agree with that) because they are geniuixes.. (er... linux geniuses).. I'm still learning though, and I don't consider myself to be very proficient with computers (I go to art school).. but stupid I am not.

 

[lucidguy]

<< I'm only worried about linux, because of the kind of elistist structure that keeps it going. All the hardcore programmers and linux nerds will leave it if becomes popular and commercial. >>



This is nonsense. Your mom can use Mandrake, your girlfriend can use Icepack Linux, you can use Redhat, I will use Slackware, and Bruce Perens can use Debian. And none of us will complain.

 

[Chaotic42]

<<

<< A majority of Linux users are assholes, and think they're better than everyone. >>



A majority of Linux users ARE better than everyone. Their IQ's are 20 to 50 points higher than society's average. Do you know another community that consistently prefers math and programming over going clubbing, going out to movies, or sex? >>



This is the biggest load of bull I've heard in a while. Junk like this is the
reason I stopped renewing my Mensa membership. They thought just because they had 150+ IQs
that they were better than everyone.

It bothers me to even think I was a part of it.


<<
EDIT: I realized that it's probably debatable as to whether intelligence is the only valid metric for judging a person's superiority over another. Most programmers, in fact, most mathematicians and scientists would agree with this metric. On the other hand, one could also rate people on the basis of beauty, verbal skills, creativity, wealth, sexual skills, and a bunch of other things. So if you don't like my opinion here, let me know, and I'll return what you paid me for it. >>



Probably debatable? Intelligence is important to some people. To others, not so much. I don't
really care that I suck at soccer. To others, that's all that matters. It doesn't make one
of us better than the other, just different.

 

[cparker]

I want my FUNIX!

 

[smp]

Actually lucidguy.. I'm not only talking about distro's.. anyways.. my mom CAN'T use mandrake.. my girlfriend doessn't even know what icepick is (me niether, but i guess it's a distro).. and I use Debian (or try to).. red hat is not for me. Anyways.. the people who made linux what it is, are supernerds that speak a whole different language than your average &quot;I need a spreadsheet app&quot; ppl. Regardless of intelligence or whatever. I also agree with the ppl who think that it's far from being a relevant desktop home/end user OS. (Which I'm kind of glad for).. and yeah, I'm glad that microsoft is shakin in it's boots..
Linux is anarchy in motion, and that is a beautiful thing.

 

[NIelkc]

lol, na. For those who think people who sit on thier computers all day and use OS's other then Windows, and Program are &quot;Smarter&quot; are complete idiots to themselfs. Just because you might be better in Math then me does that make you smarter then me? NO. You are just better in Math. Just because you know how to program 1billion lines of code does that make you smarter then me? NO, just means you know how to code. Just because you know every little part of Linux and could probably make your own Distro, does that make you smarter then me? NO. Just means you have more experiance in Linux. Everyone is differnt, everyone thinks differntly. Some people are better in Math and Logical thinking. Some people are better in Arts and Thinking &quot;Outside the Box&quot;, some people are good in but not great in everyting. To me a TRUE Geninus is someone who can program thier own OS. Write a Novel and have it go to #1. Make the most outstanding Ballad ever to be heard by man. And rebuild a Chevy 327 Small Block I mean when someone comes up to me and says, &quot;Yeh I just broke Windows Source Code&quot;, all I would think is &quot;Damn, he knows his computer Sh*t&quot; I wouldnt think that he is some super Genius or anyting. So I am sorry, I have never met a &quot;Genius&quot;, and I never will. I am Tech-Savy, I am very musicly talented, but I am one that you will see out every weekend, out with friends, metting new girls, adding to my BlackBook (Well actully they all think it is neet and odd when I pull out my PalmV to write down thier #). All I am saying is everyone that sits at home all day playing with computers, and never goes out to meet new people and have a social life outside of work and your computer buddies, here is my Adivse. If you think you are unatractive you are not, no one out there is ugly. Go get a hair cut, invest in some good gel, get some GOOD Colonge (Like BOSS, or Aqui di Gio), get some good clothes (Not the sh*t you wear to work) get some breath mints And just go out and be your self. And have a good time, and LEARN From PEOPLE, your knowledge will vastly improve

Sorry so long guys.

 

[lucidguy]

<< Write a Novel and have it go to #1. >>



In the words of H. L. Mencken:

&quot;No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.&quot;

If you think producing popular stuff is a sign of genius, then Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, Christina Whats-Her-Face, etc, are all geniuses. They all appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator.

Pandering to the common man may make good business sense, but it's hardly a sign of genius.

EDIT: In the spirit of staying on topic, I will say something about #1 novels.

To your line of thinking, every author who pays Oprah to put their book on the Book of the Month club is a genius. Because when Oprah pimps a book, all the unthinking female sheeple of America run out and buy the book and turn the pages and mutter the words to themselves to feel &quot;smart&quot; and &quot;womanly&quot;. The book often becomes bestseller of the month. Is that a sign of genius?

 

[NIelkc]

I was not shooting for the populartiy point of it, if you actully read my post you would have figured that out. And no Nsync and etc... Are not Genisus, but thier Producers are borderline. My point of the Write a Novel and have it go to #1 was just to prove greatness. Its hard to prove a point just in type so I used that.

Again read the post, to me you would have to do ALL that is listed. For ME to think you are a Genius. But why are you only focusing on one part of my post? Kind of a one-track mind? I know my penis only thinks one way, but I try to keep my brian as open as possible, just like your butthole (Just kidding, couldnt resist No Offence, just think this thread could use a good crack.

 

[lucidguy]

So for someone to be considered a genius, he would have to excel in multiple areas all at the same time.

Einstein was a dummy, because all he did was write squiggly little physics equations. He couldn't sing worth a damn and he couldn't build steel suspension bridges barehanded and blindfolded.

Mozart was a dummy because all he did was write symphonies and what have you. He couldn't write the #1 novel nor could he bend a spoon by just looking at it.

You, however, must be a total genius, because not only do you have a keen haircut, not only do you always carry breath mints on your person, but you even have the superhuman ability to impress chickies by doodling their phone numbers in your outdated Palm V! Wow!

I give up, you are a total super duper genius.

 

[NIelkc]

hahahah, that is some funny stuff. Really that made crack up. I never said that I was a genius. I mean I can barley spell. And I never called anyone Dumb did I? Einstien excelled in phsyics and math. Mozart excelled in Music Composition. But they are not Genisus's to me. You might think of them as that, but that is your Opinion thier Chief

 

[lucidguy]

Yours is an interesting philosophy. You set your standards for being a genius so impossibly high, that there is no way any person living or dead could possibly live up to them. So you get to tell yourself that geniuses do not exist, that they are a myth. You are just as good as the next guy, because people are more or less equivalent in intelligence. After all, there are no geniuses right? That makes you feel better about yourself.

I don't know if that philosophy makes much sense, but if it makes you happy, who am I to argue?

 

[Mikal]

So anyway, no, I don't think Linux will fade away. Somewhere down the road somebody will put out a version that is as easy to use and update as Winblows. More and more software will be available for it, including games. When that happens, M$ will finally feel FEAR! I can't wait!

 

[MJT2k]

Netscape has not faded away. It has just undergone a name change (its second) and gone back into beta development - Mozilla 0.9.1. Actualy Mozilla was Netscape until the founder changed its name to form a commerical browser.

Netscape was the best!! But now Mozilla is!!

 

[DaHitman]

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARD!!

The REAL ANALOGY here is...

Todays Microsoft = the old Netscape of the browser wars ... a company who's business model is based on trying to sell something that someone else is giving away for free...

Linux = like Microsoft did in the browser wars... is giving away a competitive product the same or better than what their competitor is trying to make money off of..


LONG TERM... there is NO WAY microsoft can compete with Linux....

Using your argument...It is MICROSOFT who will loose their marketshare like Netscape did in the browser wars, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

 

[stratusfear]

&quot;Todays Microsoft = the old Netscape of the browser wars ... a company who's business model is based on trying to sell something that someone else is giving away for free...&quot;

Well, technically you have to pay for IE anyways, because you can't use it on any other OS (I believe), so you'd have to purchase windows anyways. So, therefore you'd basically be purchasing IE as it comes with windows. As for linux's fate.. I believe linux will defintley be a major competitor in the OS market in the years to come. There are so many benefits to using linux as compared to windows. I'd much rather get an error in linux and be able to go into the code and solve the problem, rather than getting a very vague description of the problem in windows (while staring in frustration at a BLUE SCREEN!!), and not being able to easily solve the problem or even modify the code to remedy the problem. And hell, linux is free... think about how much money corporations and small business's have to pay for expensive licensing fees. I know if I was going to start a company (which I hope to someday) I would insist on using linux because of its flexibilty and how cost efficient it is
Linux will not be going under anytime soon.. or probably ever, considering its already came this far in only ten years or so. All those programmers at MS that have been at it since the 80's haven't even created an OS that is even remotely stable. Linux has been around for about ten years now and is increasing in popularity worldwide. And linux is incredibly stable... how many windows users can leave their pc's on for months even years without a reboot?? Just my thoughts.... correct me if i'm wrong somewhere