Will Linux fade away like netscape navigator?

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lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0


<< Well, technically you have to pay for IE anyways, because you can't use it on any other OS (I believe) >>



This is false. Free IE downloads are available for MacOS and a number of Unices including Solaris. Or you could run IE on Linux using Wine.
 

DaHitman

Golden Member
Apr 6, 2001
1,158
0
0


<< Linux has been around for about ten years now and is increasing in popularity worldwide. And linux is incredibly stable.. >>



I started using Linux in early 1994... It didnt even have any networking back then...it was only good for a software development platform.. I used to download it off of a BBS via Long Distance... it was like 12 Floppy disks for the install.

Linux has COME SOOOO FAR SOO FAST, and is still moving... it has gone from where DOS was to where Windows 2000 is in the time it took Microsoft to give the world the HUGE (ek) UPGRADE (again ek) from 95 to ME..

I just dont think that Microsoft has enough employees to keep up with the thousands of people working on all the various Linux projects like KDE, KOFFICE, GNOME, ABIWORD, OpenOffice, SAMBA, APACHE, not to mention the kenel... they just dont have the resources to compete...

Its like Microsoft is a big bus doing 65 on the highway, and Linux is a convoy of people in Beetles doing 90...sloowly they are catching up and eventually they will pass and start to pull ahead.
 

lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0


<< Its like Microsoft is a big bus doing 65 on the highway, and Linux is a convoy of people in Beetles doing 90...sloowly they are catching up and eventually they will pass and start to pull ahead. >>



No offense, but this analogy is on crack. A convoy is not necessarily going to be inherently faster than a single vehicle. There is nothing about a convoy versus a single vehicle that makes either one faster than the other. The advantage that Linux has over Microsoft is pure manpower. Penguinistas outnumber Microserfs by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.

A better analogy would be as follows: Microsoft is the nine hundred pound gorilla and Linux developers are a zillion little monkeys. In a nutcracking contest, Microsoft at first would seem to have the advantage. After all, the nine hundred pound gorilla can crack a thousand nuts in one fist. However, nutcracking is a problem that is easily parallelized, much like writing software. A little monkey can easily crack small nuts on his own, or collaborate with other little monkeys to work on the tough nuts. Every time another little monkey joins the group of the nutcracking little monkeys (becomes a Linux user) he also gets to join the nutcracking project, helps out the other little monkeys (by programming, writing patches, or plain bugreporting) and reaps the benefits of all the nutcracking all the other monkeys are doing and have done in the past. The number of little monkeys grows exponentially. Joining the little monkey club is absolutely free, and it gives one a warm fuzzy feeling to do so.

The nine hundred pound gorilla is afraid, and rightly so.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76


<< Are you saying that you are better than them because you have had more beer and you have banged more chicks? >>


Dont know where you got that from, but it sure wasnt from me.

I dont believe I'm better or worse than them, I believe they're in need of treatment.
Humans are animals, we're just a tad smarter than most other animals.
And we are flock animals, its in our natural behavior to socialise, as we've allways been doing.

Aside from that, I think most shrinks would agree that social contact is a good thing, and complete lack of the same is a bad thing.
 

lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0


<< And we are flock animals, its in our natural behavior to socialise, as we've allways been doing. >>



This is an interesting comment. A lot of people say meaningless crap like &quot;humans are naturally social animals&quot;. And when I ask them why this is so, or where they learned this, they say something like, oh, it says so in psychology textbooks. When I ask which one, they can't name names.

The theory about humans being naturally social animals is kind of like the story about kidney-stealing prostitutes in Las Vegas. Everyone's heard of it, pretty much everyone thinks it's true, but no one has a valid source for it.

Both stories are false. Humans are not naturally social animals. Have you ever observed the behavior of babies and little kids? Until about 3-4 years of age, they don't even have a concept of existence of selves outside of their own self. They are fiercely selfish and antisocial. If parents or teachers do not indoctrinate the kid with social, altruistic propaganda, the kid will remain selfish and antisocial their entire lives. There are numerous studies in scientific literature of kids who were abandoned in the wild and somehow managed to survive. These kids show absolutely no social behaviors whatsoever.

The reason most humans originally chose to live in groups and chose to agree to abide by a social contract was for purposes of survival and efficiency. Nature was too hostile for a single man, or for a single nuclear family, to survive in. A great number of people had to pool their resources in order to hold their own. It was a necessary evil, so to speak, because people had to try and overcome their naturally selfish, antisocial tendencies. Social behaviors were a function of human intelligence. People realized that, in order to survive, they had to try and overcome certain urges in their essential nature. And to some degree, they did. They learned to share and cooperate and respect others and so on. And they taught their kids how to do the same things when they were little, so they would have an easier time making the adjustment. So that they could survive in the harsh conditions of prehistoric nature. And here we are, with thousands of years of legacy of social brainwashing.

So when you go out to meet chicks this weekend, take a moment to consider that you would not feel the urge to do anything of the sort had your parents and your teachers not brainwashed you when you were a kid. Take a moment to realize that social behaviors are no different than programming skills: A set of useful, but by no means essential, learned skills.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
I didnt read it in any bookk, nor did I see it on discovery, I used some common sense.

Probabaly 95+% of the human population lives their lives with other in one way or the other, be it having a partner, going out with friends, being part of a roleplaying club, whatever, at least in the &quot;civilized&quot;, that is, pretty much anywhere where you actually have the possibility to socialize.

I'd say that makes it the normal human bahvior.

Same thing as people who say being a homosexual is normal.
Its not, its not wrong, and I dont care, but its not normal, same thing, cept I dont think being homosexual can be phsycically harmful, while I definately think living your entire life in front of a computer can.
 

acronym

Junior Member
Jun 18, 2001
15
0
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true, linux does ride on waves of popularity. I think we'll see something akin to a tidal wave when winXP comes out ;-)
 

TravisBickle

Platinum Member
Dec 3, 2000
2,037
0
0
who is feeding the monkeys when they just give away all their nuts?
oh, only the Gorilla is eating nuts right now
 

lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0


<< Probabaly 95+% of the human population lives their lives with other in one way or the other, be it having a partner, going out with friends, being part of a roleplaying club, whatever, at least in the &quot;civilized&quot;, that is, pretty much anywhere where you actually have the possibility to socialize.

I'd say that makes it the normal human bahvior.
>>



You're talking out of both sides of your mouth now. Earlier, you said that socializing was &quot;natural human behavior&quot;. I argued pretty clearly why socializing is not natural human behavior, but rather a learned behavior, much like programming, or playing soccer, or any other learned behavior.

Now, you're saying that since 95% of the civilized world does it, it is &quot;normal&quot; behavior. You dropped the &quot;natural&quot; qualifier because you realized that socializing is not at all natural to the human psyche.

95% of the civilized world also happens to watch TV on a regular basis. Are you now suggesting that socializing is just as good as watching TV? After all, both are activities practiced by 95% of the civilized world. They must be just as normal as each other. They must be just as healthy as one another. They must be just as good as one another if we are to judge the worth of activities by how commonly they are practiced. Hell, 95% of the civilized world also pick their noses, so picking your nose must be a very healthy activity as well.

When you go out this weekend, instead of making small talk with chicks, pick your nose in front of them. They will give you their phone numbers real quick like because, hey, picking your nose is just as normal, healthy and natural as socializing. 95% of the civilized world can't be wrong.
 

BreakApart

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2000
1,313
0
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<< who is feeding the monkeys when they just give away all their nuts?
oh, only the Gorilla is eating nuts right now
>>




If the Gorilla gets any bigger, there WON'T be enough nuts to feed it!

Only a small percentage of monkeys are making a living cracking nuts. The rest do it for the fun/challenge/respect/etc...
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
We've been socializing for thousands of years, I'd say that comes as close as you can get to natural behaviure.

I'd say watching TV is, if you take a bit further, seeking information, which I also think qualifies as natural behaviure.

As for the nose picking thing, yes everyone does it.
But I dont know anyone who does it in front of nice lookiing chics, or in front of anyone in fact, me I prefer a toilet or some other private place.
But that might just be a local thing, I dont know anything about your habbits.
 

lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0
Fine, we've been socializing for thousands of years. That makes it natural behavior.

We've also been doing math for thousands of years. Everyone that I know does math to some degree, if only to calculate how much to tip the waiter.

Is math natural behavior? Because if socializing is, just because everyone has been doing it for a long time, then math certainly is. By extension, is computer programming natural behavior? After all, computer programming is just math using an extended, expressive grammar.

Congratulations, you were trying to differentiate socializing from programming, and you ended up equating them.
 

igiveup

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2001
1,066
0
0
ROFLMAO. You guys kill me! Glad we have such eloquent speakers here in these forums though...
 

stratusfear

Banned
Apr 4, 2001
232
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Why do you guys always go off topic? Can't you read the title of the thread??

If I were the original poster I'd be like &quot;wtf I wasn't looking for philosophical views on natural human behavior!&quot;
 

DAM

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2000
6,102
1
76


<< Why do you guys always go off topic? Can't you read the title of the thread??

If I were the original poster I'd be like &quot;wtf I wasn't looking for philosophical views on natural human behavior!&quot;
>>





LOL well if this was my thread i would be like, &quot;I can tell you where to stick those philosophical views! ohh yeah and linux OwNz j00&quot;


well, i wouldnt same the last part, but the first one maybe.



dam(all your OSes are belong to MS)
 

lucidguy

Banned
Apr 24, 2001
396
0
0
This is very much on topic. Sunner has been totally discriminating against Linux geeks who value programming above drinking cheap beer and getting drunk out of one's ass and sleeping with ugly hos whom one perceives as pretty in one's drunken stupor.

I argued that:

1) Linux is the bomb. It is getting better.
2) Linux is getting better only thanks to the selfless Linux geeks who do what they do for free, because they enjoy programming. Also they value freedom, the respect and goodwill they receive, etc.
3) Socializing does not make a person more normal, more natural, or better, than programming. Socializing, math, programming, playing soccer, etc, are all learned behaviors.
4) Microsoft is a nine hundred pound gorilla.
5) Gorilla penises are a maximum of two inches long.

Thank you.
 

Chatterjee

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
855
0
0
Interesting conversation.

Linux will not fade away. Like someone said earlier, it's supported by it's customers. And if anything, it's customer base is always growing because the &quot;prerequisites&quot; have been decreasing. That is, it use to be the case that a well-knowledged computer geek could be the only one that would be successful installing it and using it on a daily basis. However, nowadays, people can start considering it as an alternative to MS Windows. The fact is Microsoft is getting BORED and therefore is taking risks by delving into experimental technologies that can go in both directions. Technologies like Hailstorm and the installation concepts behind Windows XP are going to be received by the public in varied manner. My personal view is that people will start realizing a loss of software ownership (especially with Microsoft products) and will go elsewhere. This would probably mean going to Linux BUT unfortunately we're not there yet either. We're ALMOST there.

Issues like rpm dependencies and the fact that you can't just switch around mices without reconfiguring X windows means there are some things that need to be fixed before new audiences are captured or &quot;won over&quot;.

You know Linux isn't fading away when the people (like me) can install it without any problems or major tech knowledge. Ever try to install Windows ME? That POS isn't even distributed on a bootable CD! You've got to resort to some floppy boot disk to get anywhere with that. At least (most) of the Linux distros I've tried come on bootable CDs. Mandrake 8 has a fanstastic installation procedure so that I could get up and running within minutes.

Why are there mixed feelings behind Linux? The reason lies in the public developments and improvements to the operating system. With Windows releases, we see the END results and that's it. With Linux, we see the improved versions as well as the bugs because the Linux community views all software as &quot;works in progress&quot;.

Just my two cents.

-S
 

MGMorden

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2000
3,348
0
76
Lets just drop it and say that some people like to spend their time differently than others. I say that no time is wasted so long as they are happy doing it. If someone chooses to site in front of their computer watching the Flying Windows screensaver all day then if that makes them happy that's exactly where they should be. If you want to go out and drink till you can't stand then as long as you're happy. Personally I'll admit that I'm a complete Redneck Hacker. I program (hate math though), spend a lot of time in Linux for my computer use, and then on the weekends got out and hunt/fish and then play cards with my fellow rednecks for the rest of the afternoon (but never drink). That's just me though. Nothing I do makes me (or anyone) better than anyone else. Just different.

As to the original topic: Netscape never peaked and then faded away. It was the dominate standard. MS came in and made a better product while netscape just added useless fluff. So by the logic MS will fade away . . .
 

westyellmt

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2001
11
0
0
&quot;All those programmers at MS that have been at it since the 80's haven't even created an OS that is even remotely stable.&quot;

That would be a good argument if it were true.
Harry
 

DaHitman

Golden Member
Apr 6, 2001
1,158
0
0


<< &quot;All those programmers at MS that have been at it since the 80's haven't even created an OS that is even remotely stable.&quot;

That would be a good argument if it were true.
Harry
>>




Yeah...I bet their turnover is so high with all the feelings of failure and all.... that thy only 2 people left from more than a couple of years ago are bill and steve.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
Ok, by public request, this will be my last post about human behaviure

Lucid, I dont know if you dont understand, or just dont read my posts, but I never said it was against human nature to program or do maths.
What I did say was that its against human behaviure to look at either of the two as a complete substitute for socializing.



<< TextCongratulations, you were trying to differentiate socializing from programming, and you ended up equating them >>


The first part of that is an outright lie.
 
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