Will RIM become the next Nortel?

[Goosemaster]

Consumer perception is not the best way to judge RIM's current business state.

Blackerry's are many times THE gateway to all business communications (as any smart phone can be) and businesses make a huge investment in them due to the productivity that can be had. Only part of this can be experienced using a blackberry without internet or even BIS.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm personally hoping that Palm rebounds, and wipes RIM out of existence.

Why? RIM has been doing everything right. Palm sucks. I am rooting for the Pre, I actually want one. But they don't deserve to wipe anybody off the map after years of fail.
Even if I don't get a chance to get a Pre (won't be going to Sprint. Ever.)...BB's will always be good enough for me. They are fine devices with good call quality, decent mail capabilities, and an OS that isn't sluggish or buggy as hell.

My only reason is because I can't stand Blackberries.

For that matter, I don't like Windows Mobile either, but I'll represent the lesser of the two evils, since I can't find any product that is any better than my Treo Pro.

 

[little elvis]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think once management realizes they can get a lot of the features that people want out of a blackberry(activesync of email, contacts, and calendar) out of the box with an exchange server you may see a decline in RIM. But I dont ever expect them to go away. They have a strong band name. But imo they dont offer anything superior to the competition anymore. Especially for the price.

The company I work for did a intensive trials before choosing a smartphone platform, initially chose windows mobile, it absolutely sucked ass. The phones sucked, and crashed continuously, nothing like having your phone reboot when taking a phone call! Email syncing was even worse.

After about 6 months with the windows mobile platform, the corporation ditched and went to RIM and haven't looked back since.

I don't know much about the back end infrastructure, but as a user I couldn't be happier when my HTC Tilt (I think that's what it was) was replaced by a Blackberry.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: little elvis
I don't know much about the back end infrastructure, but as a user I couldn't be happier when my HTC Tilt (I think that's what it was) was replaced by a Blackberry.

If you were experiencing crashes and reboots with an HTC Tytn II / AT&T Tilt, then something's poorly configured. That was the phone I had before my current Treo Pro; it was a workhorse, and I never had any problems with it at all, except when I would try to run a dozen programs all at once... which is mainly user stupidity IMO. Gave that phone to a friend, and now he loves it...

I don't understand how anyone at all can enjoy the Blackberry UI.... it just bothers me to no end.

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: little elvis
I don't know much about the back end infrastructure, but as a user I couldn't be happier when my HTC Tilt (I think that's what it was) was replaced by a Blackberry.

If you were experiencing crashes and reboots with an HTC Tytn II / AT&T Tilt, then something's poorly configured. That was the phone I had before my current Treo Pro; it was a workhorse, and I never had any problems with it at all, except when I would try to run a dozen programs all at once... which is mainly user stupidity IMO. Gave that phone to a friend, and now he loves it...

I don't understand how anyone at all can enjoy the Blackberry UI.... it just bothers me to no end.

And after going from WM to a blackberry, I can't believe I used windows phones for so long. The BBs really grow on you if you give them time.

Also, if they couldn't get things to work right with WM phones then something may have been configured wrong, but that points to poor usability. If your stuff isn't easy enough to use people won't bother and turn to other companies that are better thought out and easier to control.

 

[GeekDrew]

lol as with most user interfaces, i guess that "i just don't get it".

 

[Freshgeardude]

bbm is pretty leet.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think once management realizes they can get a lot of the features that people want out of a blackberry(activesync of email, contacts, and calendar) out of the box with an exchange server you may see a decline in RIM. But I dont ever expect them to go away. They have a strong band name. But imo they dont offer anything superior to the competition anymore. Especially for the price.

BBs offer much more than that. Plus you can run any flavor of Exchange, or Lotus, or Groupwise.

 

[rudeguy]

The truth is that BlackBerrys are the Ipods of the smart phone world. Their Pearl is comparable to the Ipod shuffle. Its frustrating as hell to use but people buy them up anyway.

I don't see RIM going anywhere anytime soon. They beat out the one chance that their competitors had at shutting them down.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: NSFW
The truth is that BlackBerrys are the Ipods of the smart phone world. Their Pearl is comparable to the Ipod shuffle. Its frustrating as hell to use but people buy them up anyway.

I don't see RIM going anywhere anytime soon. They beat out the one chance that their competitors had at shutting them down.

I find WM to be much more frustrating than Blackberry OS. I like that it's incredibly powerful. It is complex, though, which does confuse some people.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: NSFW
The truth is that BlackBerrys are the Ipods of the smart phone world. Their Pearl is comparable to the Ipod shuffle. Its frustrating as hell to use but people buy them up anyway.

I don't see RIM going anywhere anytime soon. They beat out the one chance that their competitors had at shutting them down.

I find WM to be much more frustrating than Blackberry OS. I like that it's incredibly powerful. It is complex, though, which does confuse some people.

I have only toyed with WM phones. BlackBerry (they get pissed if you forget the second capital B) OS is decent. I don't like the fact that you have to use their software to install programs. I don't like that there are so few third party app's. Memory leak is a severe PITA.

With all that being said, my Curve was probably my favorite phone I ever used. It had the best reception by far and did what it needed to do. I have a feeling that if I was using it on a CDMA network, I would have been truly in love. But the poky EDGE network I was on left a lot to be desired.

Having sold phones for so long and having used so many, I am very hard to impress. If I could have a phone with BB's reception, Palm's SMS conversations, Nokia's innovation and Sony Ericsson's style, I might be impressed.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: little elvis

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think once management realizes they can get a lot of the features that people want out of a blackberry(activesync of email, contacts, and calendar) out of the box with an exchange server you may see a decline in RIM. But I dont ever expect them to go away. They have a strong band name. But imo they dont offer anything superior to the competition anymore. Especially for the price.

The company I work for did a intensive trials before choosing a smartphone platform, initially chose windows mobile, it absolutely sucked ass. The phones sucked, and crashed continuously, nothing like having your phone reboot when taking a phone call! Email syncing was even worse.

After about 6 months with the windows mobile platform, the corporation ditched and went to RIM and haven't looked back since.

I don't know much about the back end infrastructure, but as a user I couldn't be happier when my HTC Tilt (I think that's what it was) was replaced by a Blackberry.

HTC makes crappy phones. I know because I run one. That said I run a shop that uses both blackberry and activesync. From the backend we havent had problems from either except if we lose our internet connection or if the server needs a reboot due to patching. The worst case was RIM having an issue about 6 months ago where their network was down for a good part of the day.

IMO I prefer the activesync because it is one less link in the chain to break. With activesync I have an exchange server that handles the connections. With blackberry I have an exchange server that talks to a blackberry server that talks to the RIM network.
As well the cost. I require a second physical server with software licensing for blackberry. While the cost is coming down it is still imo too much imo.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure

And HTC will eventually beat them all
-AE

I agree, I've owned a lot of their phones, and they've made some very good phones, another few generations and they'll have some pretty amazing stuff.

Am looking forward to a virtual keyboard GI with decent battery life and multi touch to replace my iPhone, I really hope they pull it off.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: little elvis
I don't know much about the back end infrastructure, but as a user I couldn't be happier when my HTC Tilt (I think that's what it was) was replaced by a Blackberry.

If you were experiencing crashes and reboots with an HTC Tytn II / AT&T Tilt, then something's poorly configured. That was the phone I had before my current Treo Pro; it was a workhorse, and I never had any problems with it at all, except when I would try to run a dozen programs all at once... which is mainly user stupidity IMO. Gave that phone to a friend, and now he loves it...

I don't understand how anyone at all can enjoy the Blackberry UI.... it just bothers me to no end.

And after going from WM to a blackberry, I can't believe I used windows phones for so long. The BBs really grow on you if you give them time.

Also, if they couldn't get things to work right with WM phones then something may have been configured wrong, but that points to poor usability. If your stuff isn't easy enough to use people won't bother and turn to other companies that are better thought out and easier to control.

Admins should setup the phones. It is as easy as pointing it towards the exchange web interface, putting in your user credentials, and away you go.

The only thing I give blackberry kudo's for is the latest version of the server allows you to send the end user an email with the activation information. But really, once past the setup they both function the same from an email perspective.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
lol as with most user interfaces, i guess that "i just don't get it".

Add me to the crowd that doesn't "get it" I've owned 4 BB's so far and a crapload of WM phones, the iPhone & Android are a hell of a lot better IMHO...

Apple has been resistant to adding some features, and that's one of their major problems IMHO, people are accustomed to MMS messaging and miss it when transitioning to an iPhone.

Android has a lot of potential, the interesting thing will be when the cheap Chinese phones with crappy OS's on them start shipping with Android, I predict a major shakeup in the smartphone market, it will be difficult for the old guard phone manufacturers to maintain their profit margins.

BB has always had an in with businesses, as the other manufacturers develop more admin friendly features, I predict their market share will significantly erode.

M$ has screwed up the axiom that it takes 3 versions of an OS for them to get it right, I gave up on them some time ago.

 

[Fritzo]

RIM struck gold with public acceptance. They've always had corporate acceptance, but as soon as you strike a chord in the residental mainstream, you're on the money train.

Palm and MS haven't joined with them for the same reason Apple hasn't joined with MS...they have different visions. I always said that MS should buy RIM though. WinMobile isn't going anywhere, MS has cash, and RIM is undervalued right now.

 

[Wreckem]

RIM has the business and government markets locked up at the moment.

Both markets upgrade every two years. They arent going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[iGas]

I always said that MS should buy RIM though. WinMobile isn't going anywhere, MS has cash, and RIM is undervalued right now.

RIM
Mkt Cap: 22.74B
PE: 12.91

MSFT
Mkt Cap: 148.03B
P/E: 8.91

NOK
Mkt Cap: 41.47B
P/E: 8.12

IMHO, Blackberries aren't going to take over the market and RIM doesn't have a road map for growth, therefore they are waiting to be purchase by some one. However, presently RIM is not an atractive company to purchase because their PE is way high in the current market condition.

 

[AlienCraft]

Our company uses a Treo 700WX with an aftermarket barcode scanner / Shock case attachment running a proprietary program for Proof of Delivery, Pick ups, etc under Windows Mobile.

With only a few exceptions, which I attribute more to the signal integrity of the Sprint Network, it is a solid application / device combo.
I believe our IT dept has done some tweeking to "it" (device / program?) as it seems to have become more stable over the last 2 years we've been doing it this way.

My biggest complaint has to do with signal coverage since I deliver in the Gold Country of California, I drive in and out of signal all day long. I used to have to rer-boot into the system several times daily to dump my data, but now it seems as if I stay "qued" in much longer, and if I do drop off the network, when I re-sign in, not re-boot, the device dumps all the accumulated signature / POD / Drop data automatically.

Which is totally cool, since I don't have to go over each transaction with dispatch individually.

 

[yllus]

I'm handing my BlackBerry 8700g back to my workplace after a year or so of use, now that my T-Mobile G1 can sync with Exchange properly (NitroDesk TouchDown). BlackBerries are the office smartphone, and will not be going anywhere for the forseeable future.

Aside from the rugged construction, long battery life and fantastic keyboards, they've got their market tightly captured through use of the BlackBerry Internet Server (BIS) system that allows BB owners to send secure, encrypted messages back and forth through a private network. The U.S. government practically requires the device, as do we up here in Canada.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: yllus
I'm handing my BlackBerry 8700g back to my workplace after a year or so of use, now that my T-Mobile G1 can sync with Exchange properly (NitroDesk TouchDown). BlackBerries are the office smartphone, and will not be going anywhere for the forseeable future.

Aside from the rugged construction, long battery life and fantastic keyboards, they've got their market tightly captured through use of the BlackBerry Internet Server (BIS) system that allows BB owners to send secure, encrypted messages back and forth through a private network. The U.S. government practically requires the device, as do we up here in Canada.

The current gen BBs have poor battery life.