Will SATA always be so complicated to install?

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: CraigRT
some SATA controllers have native support and don't even require driver disks.

for the differences between SATA and IDE, I'll stick with IDE for now, it's easy enough to not even have to push F6, and the fact IDE is less money. and lastly SATA offers pretty much 0 gains in anything.

Actually, even that is changing. SATA drives are in most cases the same price, and sometimes even cheaper than their IDE counterparts nowadays. Also, there has been not much performance improvement to this point because all the SATA drives simply used a PATA - SATA bridge, so they were still really using PATA.

The newest generation SATA drives are starting to use a true SATAII (SATA 150) interface, and are starting to support Native Command Queing (NCQ). As of now, there are only a couple of controllers that support that feature, Intel's ICH6 and the SI 3114 chip, but ias time goes on supporty for that feature will grow. Also, while still not much faster than their IDE counterparts, they are slowly starting to improve as more SATA controllers are native, and off the PCI bus, and the standard matures.

 

[HiDeAtHfInItIoN]

whats sata??? where am i

 

[Subhuman25]

My SATA HD install required nothing at all !
It was no different than installing any good 'ole IDE/PATA HD.No drivers needed,no floppies,no nothing.
Maybe it's because I used a brand new WinXP Home SP2 CD (retail) for my install?
The only difference between this SATA HD and my prior IDE drives are the power & data cables.And they are very very welcome because of their ease of install and minimal space occupation/obstruction of airflow.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Subhuman25
My SATA HD install required nothing at all !
It was no different than installing any good 'ole IDE/PATA HD.No drivers needed,no floppies,no nothing.
Maybe it's because I used a brand new WinXP Home SP2 CD (retail) for my install?
The only difference between this SATA HD and my prior IDE drives are the power & data cables.And they are very very welcome because of their ease of install and minimal space occupation/obstruction of airflow.

You didn't require anything because, as I said above, the SATA on your board is native from the southbridge, and the board makes the OS install think the SATA port is just another IDE port. You primarily need drivers if you are setting up the OS on a RAID array, or on a PCI based controller.

 

[cjard]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

No problem...glad I could help. It's really quite an easy thing to do, and you really only have to do it once.

could you tell me how to actually make these changes though?

i.e. a cd is read only, so you cant edit the files
if you copy the cd contents to the hard disk using windows, you can edit the files but you lose the bootloader when you burn the files back to a blank disc
if you copy the cd to hard disk as an image/iso.. it's pretty hard to edit the files

so, how to actually perform these edits, and finish up with a bootable cd at the end of it? (what program do you use to edit ISOs, as i think that may be the only way)

 

[cjard]

Originally posted by: Insane3D


You didn't require anything because, as I said above, the SATA on your board is native from the southbridge, and the board makes the OS install think the SATA port is just another IDE port. You primarily need drivers if you are setting up the OS on a RAID array, or on a PCI based controller.

incidentally.. i recall installing a raid array of scsi disks a long time ago, and that required a driver.. press f6 and all that.. now, the question i am wondering is why did it need a driver? can the hardware raid controller not masquerade as a single ata disk and manage all raid operations independently of the software?

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: AWhackWhiteBoy
that has nothing to do with the hardware, it was the way Microsoft made the Windows XP install. You have to use a floppy if there is any hard drive controller not supported by the inital installl CD, be in IDE, SATA or SCSI.

I've had to use a IDE RAID floppy on many occations. Windows just sucks...

Slipstreamed drivers > All that crap.

- M4H

Edit: BTW to OP, try installing and compiling Gentoo and then try to complain about how hard installing SATA drivers is for windoze.

 

[Insane3D]

Well, basically what you need to do is copy all the files to the HD, just like if you were slipstreaming a service pack. Once you are done editing the files, you just follow a simple procedure with a program like Nero to make a new bootable CD.

Let me see if I can dig up the instructions for you on making a slipstreamed XP CD.

Found it...

Creating bootable Windows 2000/XP/2003 Disc (Nero 6)

Also, if you don't have Nero 6, you can find instructions using some other burning programs here.

http://www.tacktech.com/displa...article.cfm&id=160



Hope this helps...LMK if you need more help...

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Lots of misinformation in this thread.

First, the "F6 procedure" is usually only needed when the SATA ports are controlled by a add-on chip, like the Silicon Image chips. These are basically the same as IDE/SATA cards, just integrated onto the board, and still on the PCI bus. Most of the boards that have the SATA ports controlled natively by the chipset can act like normal IDE ports during the windows install, unless you are setting windows on a RAID array.

SATA drivers can EASILY be slipstreamed onto a XP CD with almost no effort. It's simply a matter of cutting and pasting a couple of lines in a couple of setup files using notepad...not difficult at all.

Yeah, everyone keeps saying the floppy is obsolete. How can that be if its the goto guy for flashing bios and installing drivers?

It's not really. About the only drivers you'll need to load from a floppy these days is SATA/SCSI ones during a windows install, but as I said, it's EXTRMEMLY easy to slipstream these onto the OS CD. As for bios flashing, the "purists" still use it, but windows based flashers are extremely common nowadays, and all the bugs that early versions had have been worked out. Even if you still don't trust windows flashing, it takes all of about a minute to make a bootable DOS CD with the bios flasher and files on it.

IMO, there is no reason for a floppy nowadays...



Edit:

Here is the guide for slipstreaming SATA/RAID drivers onto your XP CD...

http://greenmachine.msfnhosting.com/READING/addraid.htm

The guide uses the SI drivers, but the procedure can be followed for any SATA/IDE/SCSI controller...

So first you need to find the drivers on the mobo cd, then you need to extract your windows xp cd onto your computer. Then you need to find out which lines to copy, and how to do it, which your provided. Then you need to figure out how to burn the cd so that it's bootable.

It's not that easy, and it does take a lot of time and research. :disgust:

 

[Insane3D]

Nope....it really isn't hard at all...unless you are lazy.

Download drivers from website (NEVER use the ones on the motherboard CD...they are ALWAYS out of date)
Copy Windows CD to HD
Open the file in notepad, and cut/paste the lines in the instructions
Make a bootable CD with Nero.

Granted I'm used to it now, but it shouldn't take you more than maybe 10 or 15 minutes, and once you have a new integrated CD, you never have to mess with it again.

If you want to make it out to be a big pain, that's your perogative, the fact is, it's not.




Oh...and...

:roll: <--Right back at ya.

 

[yhelothar]

Yes and the code on the website is only for the silicon image controller.
My neighbor has a Promise RAID controller with his nforce3 pro250
his mobo didn't even come with the driver floppy. He had to find it on the cd and copy it onto a floppy.
Most mobos don't come with the floppies, well at least not with the ones I dealt with. Luckily my nf7 came with it though.

 

[Insane3D]

Yes, that is slightly more difficult, but it's simply a matter of substituting the SI files with the Promise ones. That procedure would take a bit more research and time, but again, once it's done, you don't have to do it again.

Edit:

Have him go here, and download and use "XPCREATE". This program will do the same as those directions, but automatically. Also, if you look at the supported controllers in that list, there are several Promise controllers, including their SATA one.

 

[boblzer0]

the only way u need a disk is if the sata controller isn't integrated on the chipset. so if you're using an intel chipset.... 865 875 915 925 u don't need squat unless it has a raid controller. seems easy enough for me.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: BW86

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Complicated?

If "insert disk, press F6" is too hard for someone to handle, they should be buying a Dell.

- M4H

seriously...how can it get any easier?

Get the Windows Installation CD to do it all automatically? Ive never installed a SATA drive but I have seen a number of posts with people having problems getting it right.

 

[boblzer0]

same thing as using any kind weird controller card. ata raid/scsi. nobody every bitched about that. and like i said the integrated non raid controllers with intel chipsets just work by default.

 

[ucjffj]

would be best if msft did either:

1) let you insert another cd while searching for drivers

2) let you search usb pen drives for drivers


or maybe they could get ambitious and do both.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: ucjffj
would be best if msft did either:

1) let you insert another cd while searching for drivers

2) let you search usb pen drives for drivers


or maybe they could get ambitious and do both.

I'm sure we will get both fairly soon. It's really only a matter of time IMO...

 

[boblzer0]

for sure. its pretty dumb u can't just browse to where u want to go to find the damn driver.

 

[imported_Bunter]

The biggest headache that I had was when a makedisk utility misnamed the files Windows needed. Even that was just a momentary WTF, followed by me slapping myself in the forehead.

If the issue is people not installing floppies, I can understand that. But if it is difficulty, I'm sorry, they either should stick with the native (usually IDE) interface or buy a prebuilt, preinstalled system.

I, too, go back to the days when assembling and testing the system took 90 minutes and the OS install usually took 4 hours (and then still might not work right). Even with the F6 installation, it is usually a painless process these days.

 

[tweeve2002]

Using a floppy for drivers isnt that big of a deal...Also most schools still requre you to need floppys because not all computers can use thumb drives.

 

[HiDeAtHfInItIoN]

Hey guys i have the same mobo and hd as that guy, will i have to install sata drivers? I am gonna b usin winxp pro sp1.

 

[joecool]

no problems here - just as easy as pata. what's the big deal?

 

[fsstrike]

Its not that installing S-ATA is hard to install, its that its just different. When I got my 1st SATA hard drive I *assumed* it was the same installation process as IDE hard drives, so I was a bit lost a first. After it wasnt working right away, I went on the chaintech website, made a disc and I was ready to go. If i were to ever install a SATA hd it would take me no time at all as now i know exactly what to do. For someone that has never had, installed or used a sata hard drive, you can understand why they might have trouble.

 

[SUOrangeman]

How easily folks have forgotten the days of Ultra ATA-66 and Ultra-ATA100 controllers/driver issues when we had to do a lot of the same thing with Windows 2000. I guess many folks were still using Win98 back then.

-SUO