Will someone please tell me why gays can't serve openly in the military?

[PokerGuy]

Yawn, it's not like this has not been covered about 12,632,821,512,589 times already......

 

[JD50]

This is one of the issues that really pisses me off about him. He should have had the balls to come out on day one and not only toss DADT but to make gay marriage legal in all 50 states. It is his Christian faith that is fucking him up.

:thumbsup:

 

[zsdersw]

Yawn, it's not like this has not been covered about 12,632,821,512,589 times already......

I think we're up to 14,712,869,445,023 now.

 

[PokerGuy]

I think we're up to 14,712,869,445,023 now.

Yikes, it's going up faster than the national deficit! Eeek!

 

[zsdersw]

Yikes, it's going up faster than the national deficit! Eeek!

That's not possible.

 

[JS80]

This is one of the issues that really pisses me off about him. He should have had the balls to come out on day one and not only toss DADT but to make gay marriage legal in all 50 states. It is his Christian faith that is fucking him up.

False. It's because he is black. Blacks hate gays. Everyone knows this.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yawn, it's not like this has not been covered about 12,632,821,512,589 times already......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yawn, it's not like this has not been covered about 12,632,821,512,589 times already......

Or that anything else you will ever say hasn't also.

 

[dammitgibs]

Because congress passed a law saying they couldn't.

/thread

 

[Moonbeam]

Why does McCain need more time? WTF are they afraid of?
Seriously, WTF are the homophobes terrified of?
How is this any different than when the military was ordered to desegregate 60 years ago?

If a soldier, sailor, marine, etc is afraid of working alongside a gay person in combat then we have bigger problems than a bunch of terrorists.

What is the g-d damn problem?

The problem is bigotry. There are lots of bigots especially among older soldiers with higher rank. Folk don't just stop being bigots because more and more younger folk have grown past such stupidity. There is a situation in the military between the fact that gay folk want to serve and bigots do too. The bigots don't want to serve with gays and the military wants and needs the cannon fodder. The best solution is to end war so gays and bigots don't have to serve at all. In the mean time it takes time to work out some accommodation between human rights and human bigotry.

 

[Perknose]

Because Barack Obama doesn't care about gay people.

Which makes the current Republican Party Hurricane Katrina. Hmmm, the Repubs as a deadly natural disaster. I kinda' like it.

 

[Throckmorton]

If troops aren't homophobic now I guarantee they will be if it ever becomes common knowledge how high the HIV infection rate is among young black gay men. They do tend to bleed in the military.

 

[zsdersw]

If troops aren't homophobic now I guarantee they will be if it ever becomes common knowledge how high the HIV infection rate is among young black gay men. They do tend to bleed in the military.

Wow.. how little you know about HIV transmission.

- HIV dies quickly once outside of the human body.

- You cannot get HIV simply by touching HIV+ blood; it cannot go through your skin.

- You'd have to rub HIV+ blood into an open wound (not a common practice, for sure) to have even a marginal chance of getting infected.

 

[Jaskalas]

You recruit your military from a conservative and/or a minority base. Neither are friendly to gays, unlike the mostly white liberal college-bound demographic you are likely part of.

This is a nation of a divided people. Your military is largely from one side of that aisle. They aren't like you. What you think is acceptable is not what they think is acceptable.

 

[nageov3t]

If troops aren't homophobic now I guarantee they will be if it ever becomes common knowledge how high the HIV infection rate is among young black gay men. They do tend to bleed in the military.

what are HIV infection rates like amongst lesbians?

 

[piasabird]

For a long time now there has been Military Law against Gays serving in the military. Military Law is based on the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)(See manual for Courts Martial), which was approved by all the branches of the Military and sent to Congress and then some congressional committee goes over it and then it was signed into law. So without it being reviewed by the military branches, it would be considered invalid. Military law is different from civilian law and there is even a different Federal court of review for military law.

Also keep in Mind that soldiers in the field have to often share a tent and this can cause problems. It was always a tradition that a man left his wife and then went to war. Sexual relations were not really allowed in combat. Right wrong or otherwise this is how war works. The military wasnt so confusing until women were allowed to serve in so many different fields. It just confuses the issue. However, I could see changing the laws as long as it is done according to Military Protocol.

Often in the field people have to sleep right next to another soldier, marine, sailor, etc. In close quarters this could cause problems. Some people may be just fine sharing a pup tent with a gay person and some might not be so fine with it.

 

[zsdersw]

What you think is acceptable is not what they think is acceptable.

Once upon a time they didn't think African-Americans serving was acceptable either.. but they put the baby bottles down and grew up to become big boys and girls.

 

[nageov3t]

You recruit your military from a conservative and/or a rural base. Neither are friendly to blacks, unlike the liberal college-bound demographic you are likely part of.

This is a nation of a divided people. Your military is largely from one side of that aisle. They aren't like you. What you think is acceptable is not what they think is acceptable.

 

[fskimospy]

so what you are saying is that Gays who act normal are well liked... and Gays who act like assholes arent.
This is exactly why DADT works well... only assholes parade their homosexuality on display for all to see.

Anyone who acts normally is generally well liked, while assholes aren't. I have no clue what this has to do with DADT. A gay person doesn't transform from 'acting normally' to 'acting like an asshole' just because they can dare to utter the words that they are gay.

If you mean 'act normal' to mean 'act heterosexual', then the men on my ship who were gay were already not 'acting normally', with zero problems. If by 'act normal' you mean 'don't act like you're in a gay pride parade', you already can't do that while you're in the military, straight or gay.

I just love people who have never spent a day in the military in their life trying to tell people how things in the military work, or what people in the military believe. My personal experience tells me that DADT is stupid, and the studies now show that my experience is representative of most people in the military. Nobody cares.

I'm so sorry for you that you appear to.

 

[fskimospy]

If troops aren't homophobic now I guarantee they will be if it ever becomes common knowledge how high the HIV infection rate is among young black gay men. They do tend to bleed in the military.

All members of the military are required to routinely be screened for HIV, and processed out if they are. (or at least moved to noncombat positions) it's highly unlikely to be an issue.

 

[fskimospy]

You recruit your military from a conservative and/or a minority base. Neither are friendly to gays, unlike the mostly white liberal college-bound demographic you are likely part of.

This is a nation of a divided people. Your military is largely from one side of that aisle. They aren't like you. What you think is acceptable is not what they think is acceptable.

Hey look, another person who has never been in the military telling people what those in the military think. Do you have any other pearls of wisdom for us? How was the food? What do you think of the sleeping arrangements? What's the best way to keep your mask from driving you nuts during those long CBR drills? You appear to have loads of knowledge, so let us know.

The study came out shows that a good majority of the troops don't care at all, and I'd bet anything that polling among the troops when black people were integrated wouldn't have shown anywhere near that level of support.

All this stuff does is act like a delaying tactic for bigots to continue to deny basic recognition and benefits to people who they have sent out to possibly be killed while fighting for their interests. Disgusting.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

I just love people who have never spent a day in the military in their life trying to tell people how things in the military work, or what people in the military believe. My personal experience tells me that DADT is stupid, and the studies now show that my experience is representative of most people in the military. Nobody cares.

I'm so sorry for you that you appear to.

Yeah ditto this.

 

[Siddhartha]

Why does McCain need more time? WTF are they afraid of?
Seriously, WTF are the homophobes terrified of?
How is this any different than when the military was ordered to desegregate 60 years ago?

If a soldier, sailor, marine, etc is afraid of working alongside a gay person in combat then we have bigger problems than a bunch of terrorists.

What is the g-d damn problem?

It has everything to do with bigotry.

 

[1prophet]

Right... and where exactly is the "I bang chicks" parade?
I'd really like to see you cite some - In your face heterosexuality...

Regardless... according to military law, soldiers are supposed to be a-sexual while on duty. So it matters not what sex your partner is, because there is no sex.

If that were the case than they can save a lot of resources by putting men and women together including the showers like in Starship Troopers.

 

[preCRT]

It has everything to do with bigotry.

You don't give in to terrorists and you don't give in to bigots.

 

[Moonbeam]

You don't give in to terrorists and you don't give in to bigots.

Some British general or something or other says we can't win against terrorism with force but need 30 years to improve the lives of folk where terrorism is popular. In short a real victory over terrorism will involve removing terrorist grievances that they have shitty lives. This will take time.

The war against bigotry toward gays will also take time because we can't just kill off the bigots. Rome wasn't built in a day.