Will the real Colin Powel please stand up!! :)

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Perhaps an argument could be fashioned that the Irish should have been enslaved, and that was our mistake. My wife would not have been amused, however.

But to compare the fleeting discrimination against Irish with the enslavement of blacks, to say nothing of the many laws which forbade normal contacts between blacks and whites, suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. Irish were never forbidden from marrying English or French, or other whites. Perhaps that was a mistake ( ), but it didn't happen. There were no Irish anti-miscegenation laws. Furthermore, Blacks were treated like cattle; breeding at their master's orders; whipped, killed, and tortured. The only thing comparable, but not the same, is the holocaust.

You don't have to believe that anyone alive today is guilty of discrimination, though we know that not to be true. The question is how to remedy what was a very real injustice that has not been remedied. If you were confined to a room by someone for even one minute, you could sue and probably win a substantial amount of money. Blacks have never been paid reparations, or given anything more than token power, something which occurred for a few years during Reconstruction. By the turn of the century, all of those small gains by blacks had been lost. Even the American Indians have been given some token land and token jurisdictional freedoms, although the injustices suffered by the Indians at the hands of the settlers and U.S. government are legendary, and the payments inadequate. (For instance, the United States Government broke every treaty it made with the American Indians until about 1940.)

So, I view Affirmative Action as a form of ongoing reparations for the harms we caused blacks for 400 years. I see it as a small payment on a very large debt.

 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
2
76


<< This should get interesting. >>

Yep, sure did.




<< If you want respect, then show some. >>

There are some youths who live in the next neighborhood who would do well to take your advice.



<< You aren't black so there is no way in hell you could understnad. >>

Since when does one have to be black to experience violence and discrimination because of his skin color? Last I checked, people of African decent are not the only minorities in this country.



<< Martin Luther King was killed because he was black. >>

And the poor guy who was gunned down here at point blank range this summer was killed because he was white. I think you need to visit Pittsburgh, the most racially polarized city I've ever spent time in. In fact it is, and has been for decades, the most segregated major city in the country. The only reason more white people here are not injured or killed because of their skin color here is because of the de-facto segregation that has become so &quot;normal&quot; here. Most whites here have learned that it is not safe to leave their own neighborhoods, and most are not stupid enough to venture into the black areas anymore.



<< Every racial problem was started by YOUR WHITE ANCESTORS, so if you want blame someone, blame them. >>

That is so wrong I'm not sure I know where to begin to start. True, the original problems were started by those of European decent. I was not part of that group; neither was Boberfett or anyone else alive. True, it was the white people who segregated blacks and treated them as less than humans, but most of them are also dead. Why hold us responsible for wrongs that our ancestors committed?

At least where I live, blacks are as much to blame as whites for the current problems. It is not safe for me to walk through most of the neighborhoods around here because of the color of my skin. It is not safe for me to ride some of the city buses for the same reasons.

I've been kicked, cursed at, spat at, and mugged by people of African decent because I am white. I used to work on another side of town, which forced me to take a bus on which I was usually the only white person. Even though the bus was standing room only, I always had my own seat because no one would lower themselves to sit next to &quot;that fucking cracker&quot;. My close friend was jumped on his way home a few months ago, and spend a night in the hospital with a broken rib because a group of black men thought it would be fun to &quot;beat the shit out of whitey&quot;.

I was mugged riding a city bus here because of the color of my skin. I know what it's like to walk onto a bus, or into an establishment an instantly feel the eyes on me because I don't belong. I know what it's like to fear for my safety because I am &quot;out of place.&quot; I've walked into fast food places in the black parts of the city, and I've always been the last one served, even if a black person was behind me in line. Don't get the wrong idea; those few occasions, and those few minutes of inconvenience don't begin to compare to centuries of attrocities. But don't you dare tell me that I &quot;don't understand what it's like because I'm not black.&quot; I understand damn well what it is like to be hated solely because of my skin color. Your problem is that you fail to see the other side of the coin; your arrogance is what keeps you down now.

You somehow believe that your race has done nothing wrong, and that since I am white, I must be descriminating against you and others of your race. Until you, and others like you of all colors, realize how destructive those attitudes are, there will never be true equality. Until then, I will not be able to leave my neighborhood after dark, and young black men will be able to walk my streets without the police following them, and withough whites crossing to the other side.

When will people like you learn that I never owned slaves, that I never kept anyone from voting, that I never forced anyone to ride in the back of the bus, or that I never descriminated against anyone? When will you realize that the people who did are aging, and in a generation will be dead and buried? Until you do, things will never improve. With attitudes like yours so prevalent, we've got a long road ahead of us.
 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
1
0
reitz

You always have very informational posts, but....you don't get it! Liberal Democrats need, NEED, something to HATE! Emotional outbursts, no matter how pathetic, is how they attempt to solve problems. When they cannot solve a problem, which is the vast majority of the time, they need someone to blame. This is what drives them....


If Black Americans want reparations, they should start with their own kind as it it THEY who sold their kindred into slavery. If you dare to read African History it was very much a custom to sell your enemies into slavery. Whites or America in general have no more to be ashamed of than any other people in this sad time in history. Slavery in many forms still exists today. White Democrat leaders, who constantly berate Blacks that without them they don't stand a chance, come to mind...
 

PistachioByAzul

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,132
0
71
Why hold us responsible for wrongs that our ancestors committed?

You know, most white American's ancestors weren't even around for (or didn't participate in) slavery and segregation.

So, I view Affirmative Action as a form of ongoing reparations for the harms we caused blacks for 400 years. I see it as a small payment on a very large debt.

chess9 (like most Democrats it would appear) is so blinded by his foolish feeling of guilt that he fails to see poorly thought out programs like AA are actually detrimental.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I've been out for most of the day, so I couldn't get back to this conversation like I wanted to. But I just wanted to say &quot;Amen Pennstate!&quot;
 

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
0
0


<< We don't need to hear people like Bober Fett, Format C:, Andrew, Bryan, and host of others talked down to us. >>

No Classy, thats where you have it wrong. There is no &quot;we&quot; and no &quot;us&quot;; Only YOU. You, and thousands of other racists just like you, no matter their outside pigmentation, all share a commonality. Your hearts and your souls are black, but not because of your race. They are black from hatred.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
reitz When will people like you learn that I never owned slaves, that I never kept anyone from voting, that I never forced anyone to ride in the back of the bus, or that I never descriminated against anyone? When will you realize that the people who did are aging, and in a generation will be dead and buried? Until you do, things will never improve. With attitudes like yours so prevalent, we've got a long road ahead of us.

Thats exactly my point! I have not done anything. So, chess9 why should I pay for what people long dead did? Believe me, I'm not living off the money that my ancestors got by exploiting slaves. Some people are (somewhere in there), but how can you possibly accurately account for what current people gained from things like slavery? I know that Blacks only got the vote recetnly (disgustingly recent in fact, I can't believe it took so long), but I have personally not comitted acts of racism and I take offense at somebody saying I should pay for something somebody else did.

Format C: Agreed. I personally do not hate anybody, because its pointless. Hating people now for what their great great great great great grandparents may or may not have done is absolutely mindless.

If society was always looking back to get retribution for things ancestors did we'd never be able to advance. At some point we have to say &quot;yes this was terrible, lets not have it happen again.&quot; instead of &quot;yes this was terrible, and I will make sure it doesn't happen again by constantly reminding people who didn't do it and blaming them because they were born by somebody who did&quot;
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0


<< Did someone mention chess9? No, it was a nobody, not a somebody. The caboose in Russ's train of dog-eared followers. >>



Chess9,

I guess you've now gone completely over the edge in to full-blown senility. Nobody mentioned your name anywhere before you squirted in and started spouting your libberish in this thread.



<< After 400 years of hell >>



Classy,

I had no idea you were that old.

BTW, there is one thing that I want you to know: Even though I completely disagree with your rantings, I can respect them because you are Black, and actually have some reason to feel some anger about the issue.

The Guilty White Liberals, who do the same thing, just make me want to puke.

Russ, NCNE
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
Thats exactly my point! I have not done anything. So, chess9 why should I pay for what people long dead did?

THis is the common misconception. The government, the representative of this Nation, is repaying for the history of systematic discrimination against Blacks; Not you. However, you happened to be a citizen of this Nation, therefore you bear some of that responsibility too. It's like shareholders in a company. We are all shareholders of America. Therefore, WE, as a nation, bear that responsibility.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
pennstate, well to be technically accurate I'm a citizen of Canada, a country that has never had slavery... we've had/have varying degrees of racism of course. Not sure about your comment though still trying to figure a response
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Hell yes, reparations are a great idea.

Let's see I am part Cherokee and my great-great grandparents were forced out of Georgia on the Trail of Tears. I think every landowner in Georgia owes me reparations.

I have some Irish also. England certainly owes me something for all the troubles they caused me great-great great grandparents.

Dutch-German, well Germany probably harmed my great grandparents somehow during WWI. That should be good for a few dollars.

English, lets hit the Germans and Irish and Scots and even the Romans invaded England. Who knows how well I would be doing right now if history was changed.

Perhaps I can trace it all the way back to Able and make all of Cain's ancestors pay.

I need to get out the history books and study up, I might end up a millionaire from this.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
So etech, are you implying that the US government should not be liable for any of its past actions?
 

Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,716
0
0
I think he was saying if you go back far enough everybody deserves reparations from everybody else.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
Most sociologist would agree that slavery in American has had significant impact on the Black population in this country. The effects are still lingering. Such as the income gap, education gap. On the other hand, I bet the English wish they were Americans.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Naw, I just want to be rich and figure that somewhere in history someone must of done something to my great-great-great? grandparents that I can justify somehow so that someone else owes me money.
That's logical isn't it?


I guess the US government could start by paying the English for that tea our fore fathers dumped into Boston Harbor.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
pennstate Ask any english citizen and I think you'll find they certainly do not wish they were American.

etech is right; you go far enough back everybody owes somebody something.
 

Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,716
0
0
Oh I think it definately has, but in general I would be more in favor in a different type of affirmative action that targets helping everyone of lower income brackets regardless of race. Call me naive if you want, but I think a black kid from the 'burbs has as much chance of doing well as a white kid from the 'burbs. I'd say the same of someone living at near poverty level. It happens that there is a disproportionate amount of minorities stuck at this low income level, so it would help them just as much under the race blind income based plan compared to the current affirmative action. This way, we could finally move towards a race blind society. Probably too idealistic I guess though.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
The bottom line is How has the past discrimination (pick which ever one you want) affected you? Obviously, many other conflicts have no modern day effect. But there are strong social and demographical evidence that the Black population as a whole (I am not talking about individuals here) is still affectted by slavery and systematic racism.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
Date Posted: Dec/17/2000 10:58 PM

Oh I think it definately has, but in general I would be more in favor in a different type of affirmative action that targets helping everyone of lower income brackets regardless of race.



I agree with that too. But Russ would run in here and call us Communists.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Penn, to answer your question,
Yes the US government should deal with past actions.

They should make every living slave owner pay damages to every living slave.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
So if someone killed your dad, he owes you nothing? Lets not argue for only the sake of arguing. Also, racism was the law. THerefore the government would be responisible.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0


<< But Russ would run in here and call us Communists. >>



Pennstate,

Really? On what foundation do you build that fallacious assumption? I happen to support financial assistance for worthy low income students. It is a good investment.

You shouldn't make such a fool of yourself by making assumptions on issues about which you know nothing.

Russ, NCNE
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
pennstate If somebody kills my father it is a direct and easily measured influence on my life.

Don't forget that government is not a sentient being. It is composed entirely of people alive at the time. Government is run by people; these people are now dead. What they did with that government died with them.

Lets say that in 10 years after a major public backlash to SUV's there is a law such that anybody who uses one and causes an accident automatically pays the victim's family money regardless of who caused the accident. Does this mean that people who happened to drive SUV's before this law should pay? It is unreasonable to make a law and retroactively enforce it. You cannot logically punish us for something that those before us did and we had no influence in.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |