Will their be a WoW Killer?

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invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
Diablo 3 or SC2 will do considerable damage WoW's subscription base, seeing as it has a huge fanbase in WoW. If you are talking about other games outside of Blizzard, then no other game will have a chance. Only time will kill it.

Everyone thought Warhammer would be very competitive to WoW, but more than half went back to WoW after a couple weeks. Now, I haven't heard much from it since then. I've played WoW for 4 years and will lose interest greatly as SC2 beta comes closer.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
a well done present day MMO loosely following UO & more focused pvp and player created content will siphon off a chunk of players (possibly darkfall, or mortal online)
diablo 3 will siphon off more of the quest based, pve, gear-fixated people

ultimately i bet it will take another blizzard IP to really put away WoW
 

hooflung

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2004
1,190
1
0
The only measure you can really do is server growth. In that regard the only game that will kill WoW is WoW. From the rest I don't think anyone can match EVE's growth. At any given time there are 32k people on average. That is about 21 full up WoW servers 23/7 ( 1 hour downtime a day ). There isn't a game that can match that outside of WoW right now. WAR has the server count but they simply are not full up all day long.
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: invidia
Diablo 3 or SC2 will do considerable damage WoW's subscription base, seeing as it has a huge fanbase in WoW. If you are talking about other games outside of Blizzard, then no other game will have a chance. Only time will kill it.

Everyone thought Warhammer would be very competitive to WoW, but more than half went back to WoW after a couple weeks. Now, I haven't heard much from it since then. I've played WoW for 4 years and will lose interest greatly as SC2 beta comes closer.

If anything, I think the initial sales numbers for WAR (and AoC as well) proved that there are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to WoW, but no one has been able to execute and make a game that's as fun and polished.

It adds to the evidence that WoW subscribers will be willing to abandon WoW in droves for D3 because I think there's nearly universal expectation that the final product will live up to the hype. Add to that the fact that the graphics in WoW are starting to get seriously long in the tooth, and I think it will be the beginning of the end.

I'd bet my firstborn that Blizz's next major release after D3 will be a sequal/succesor to WoW.
 

natebigdawg

Member
Jul 21, 2008
84
0
0
I think that the most probable MMO that will have a chance of toppling WoW in the long run is the Star Wars MMO from Bioware. If you look at the forums for this game they are packed with responses so there seems to be a good amount of interest. Bioware has a very devoted Single-player fan-base as this has been their main focus until now.

If they can pull off a great launch with a very unique game which seems to be the potential case with it being very story driven and taking some positives from Galaxies such as the robust crafting system, it could open up the MMO genre to a new and large group of players. Add to the possiblity that it would begin to leach players from WoW, it could take the lead eventually.

We all agree that WoW will die and I don't think a WoW 2 seems very feasible. Seems to me that the World of Warcraft has basically been explored. No new Blizzard MMO will be released in the next 5 years IMO besides expansions.

The reason I think that many players have returned to WoW after these latest sub-par releases lately is that they have invested so much time into WoW that totally giving it up is like donating a kidney. Once WoW feels so dated and old that a polished MMO game release can once again suck their lives away will we see WoW meet its end.

Until then, I will enjoy my lifetime sub to LOTRO where I KNOW I can always return without forking over a lame sub fee.
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: natebigdawg
I think that the most probable MMO that will have a chance of toppling WoW in the long run is the Star Wars MMO from Bioware. If you look at the forums for this game they are packed with responses so there seems to be a good amount of interest. Bioware has a very devoted Single-player fan-base as this has been their main focus until now.

If they can pull off a great launch with a very unique game which seems to be the potential case with it being very story driven and taking some positives from Galaxies such as the robust crafting system, it could open up the MMO genre to a new and large group of players. Add to the possiblity that it would begin to leach players from WoW, it could take the lead eventually.

We all agree that WoW will die and I don't think a WoW 2 seems very feasible. Seems to me that the World of Warcraft has basically been explored. No new Blizzard MMO will be released in the next 5 years IMO besides expansions.

The reason I think that many players have returned to WoW after these latest sub-par releases lately is that they have invested so much time into WoW that totally giving it up is like donating a kidney. Once WoW feels so dated and old that a polished MMO game release can once again suck their lives away will we see WoW meet its end.

Until then, I will enjoy my lifetime sub to LOTRO where I KNOW I can always return without forking over a lame sub fee.

I'm pretty sure Blizz has confirmed that they have another MMO in the works already, so I doubt it's going to be 5 years before we see a followup to WoW. The MMO business is just too lucrative for them to give up their market leader position. It would be crazy for them to just exit the market for a few years while they develop a new product.

 

natebigdawg

Member
Jul 21, 2008
84
0
0
Originally posted by: ggnl
Originally posted by: natebigdawg
I think that the most probable MMO that will have a chance of toppling WoW in the long run is the Star Wars MMO from Bioware. If you look at the forums for this game they are packed with responses so there seems to be a good amount of interest. Bioware has a very devoted Single-player fan-base as this has been their main focus until now.

If they can pull off a great launch with a very unique game which seems to be the potential case with it being very story driven and taking some positives from Galaxies such as the robust crafting system, it could open up the MMO genre to a new and large group of players. Add to the possiblity that it would begin to leach players from WoW, it could take the lead eventually.

We all agree that WoW will die and I don't think a WoW 2 seems very feasible. Seems to me that the World of Warcraft has basically been explored. No new Blizzard MMO will be released in the next 5 years IMO besides expansions.

The reason I think that many players have returned to WoW after these latest sub-par releases lately is that they have invested so much time into WoW that totally giving it up is like donating a kidney. Once WoW feels so dated and old that a polished MMO game release can once again suck their lives away will we see WoW meet its end.

Until then, I will enjoy my lifetime sub to LOTRO where I KNOW I can always return without forking over a lame sub fee.

I'm pretty sure Blizz has confirmed that they have another MMO in the works already, so I doubt it's going to be 5 years before we see a followup to WoW. The MMO business is just too lucrative for them to give up their market leader position. It would be crazy for them to just exit the market for a few years while they develop a new product.

I have not heard a thing about them doing another MMO seperate from WoW except for probable expansions in the future. I don't think a StarCraft or Diablo MMO is in the works since they have not even released StarCraft II or Diablo III and we have no firm estimate of when that will be. I think that it would be fair to say that Blizzard will do all it can to reduce the bridge between WoW and their next new MMO. The introduction of a "WoW-Killer" could possibly speed up the development process. Until I hear official word, there is no other non-WoW MMO in development.
 

SupaDupaPan

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2004
1,071
0
76
Originally posted by: Koudelka
Time alone will kill WoW. After countless years and expansions, they all die eventually.

This. Many new players now coming into WoW after the expansions seem to have a difficult time trying to adjust due to the lack of lower leveled players (that is unless they already have higher leveled friends to come help/level new characters with them.) All the pre-bc content is fairly empty and the newer players have more difficulty it seems finding groups and parties to do instances and level with.

With that, the newer players then drop their subscriptions/trials in search of other games which are younger/newer.

While there is a current subscription base, will eventually drop off with the games that come and go. In addition, all things in time get old. Evercrack, was the last biggest MMO, but people still also were able to break the addiction as time went by and things just got old.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,203
16,658
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I think a more interesting question is how long will it last? Will people still be playing it in 5yrs or 10yrs or even 20yrs? Never played it so I cannot even guess.
 

ArmchairAthlete

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2002
3,763
0
0
No one game is going to "kill" it. More just people gradually leaving over time for a number of games, or who just quit playing games altogether.

From their jobs board it's been obvious for a long time that they are working on another MMO. If WoW's not much smaller by then, that release will surely do it. WoW will still have subs even then for years but much less.
 

Barfo

Lifer
Jan 4, 2005
27,539
212
106
Originally posted by: BassBomb
Originally posted by: Dinkbat
Originally posted by: ggnl
Diablo 3 arguably, even though it's not an MMO I think it will syphon off a lot of WoW's players. Besides that, I don't think there's anything else on the horizon that even poses a threat to WoW's dominance.

Yeah unfortunately I think the only company that could topple WoW is blizzard. I gave up hope on MMOs after warhammer I have just been playing Xbox360 waiting for something to come out. That and Darkfall doesn't look so promising either.

This. Also, WoW will die only when Blizzard closes it's own servers while transitioning to Wow 2 or whatever the replacement's name is.
 

Dinkbat

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2009
21
0
0
I think WoW destroyed the MMO community... All game developers try to make their game like WoW and that's what sucks. You can expect alot more MMO's to be WoW look a likes. I won't lie I would gladly play a World of Starcraft. I think that Blizzard is the only company that can produce a successful MMO now. They changed the community and now theres no going back I can't imagine what MMO would be great and be unlike WoW.
 

lifeobry

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2008
1,325
0
0
Originally posted by: SupaDupaPan
This. Many new players now coming into WoW after the expansions seem to have a difficult time trying to adjust due to the lack of lower leveled players (that is unless they already have higher leveled friends to come help/level new characters with them.) All the pre-bc content is fairly empty and the newer players have more difficulty it seems finding groups and parties to do instances and level with.

I only started two months ago and had no issues leveling up by myself. The game is essentially single-player unless you want to do an instance.

I don't forsee any MMO toppling WoW. Blizzard is not going to let their cash-cow die, and they have the skills to keep it interesting for the majority of players. Diablo III is the biggest "threat", as it is very WoW-ish in gameplay.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,768
863
126
Originally posted by: Beev
I would drop WoW in a god damn heartbeat for Universe of Starcraft

I am so calling the name "kerrigan" to cyber with in that game.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Some titles like original eq, eve, ff11, will have a devoted playerbase that will keep the servers alive for years to come. hell in a few years you will be able to play wow on the psp9000 or in your head with an implant of some kind. For me I will always have my ff11 character and pay my 12 sheckles because even if I do not play it that often-the last 2 years I have logged on a grand total of 5 times-the friends I made ingame and the experiences I had keep me coming back.

What will kill wow is some sort of global meltdown mad max style.....
 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
2
0
Originally posted by: Dinkbat
I think WoW destroyed the MMO community... All game developers try to make their game like WoW and that's what sucks. You can expect alot more MMO's to be WoW look a likes. I won't lie I would gladly play a World of Starcraft. I think that Blizzard is the only company that can produce a successful MMO now. They changed the community and now theres no going back I can't imagine what MMO would be great and be unlike WoW.

This is a good point- I agree. It seems likely that the only company confident enough and willing to take a risk by developing something very different from WoW would be Blizzard itself.
 

darkrisen2003

Senior member
Sep 13, 2004
382
0
76
I never see anyone give credit where credit is due. UO was the first MMO I ever played and it had a huge fan base and people still play it to this day for its replay ability. Now Grant it that?s mostly on the free player made shards but to me that still shows community interest. Everquest 1 was just as big as wow in its prime. Before the GOD expansion EQ1 had quite a strong number of players that spent anywhere from 2-8 hours a night playing. Everquest 2 still has a strong community and personally is a much better game than WOW. I played wow for roughly 3 years off and on but it never really held my interest like everquest did and I would like to explain why.

Wow only has a handful of races and classes. Everquest gives more of the pen and paper role-playing feel due to the large amount of races and classes to choose from. Wow forces you to play every class a certain way if you expect to get into end game adventures. Everquest has more versatility with the classes and players are not forced to play only a specific way to be able to excel. Personally if there is going to be a wow killer it will need to be a game that has the same concept of a pen and paper RPG with the focus being on strong PVE game play and still have some leeway to do PVP. Having a large variety of races and classes to choose from mixed with an extremely in depth lore and background story to what you are doing and why makes a better game. Personally im not that into pvp in mmo's unless that?s the whole point to the mmo such as UO and shadowbane.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Originally posted by: Dinkbat
I think WoW destroyed the MMO community... All game developers try to make their game like WoW and that's what sucks. You can expect alot more MMO's to be WoW look a likes. I won't lie I would gladly play a World of Starcraft. I think that Blizzard is the only company that can produce a successful MMO now. They changed the community and now theres no going back I can't imagine what MMO would be great and be unlike WoW.

I completely disagree. No one wants to compete with WoW on its own turf. So each game is trying to be distinctly different from WoW. Look at AoC and Warhammer. They both used some of the proven advances of WoW, but were very much different games. All games build off of what worked in the last successful game. Most of the MMOs currently being worked on will be very different from WoW. Maybe one of those will take the WoW crown. All it will take is for the game to be at least as fun as WoW, or for it to come out at a time when a large group of WoW players are pissed off due to some change that Blizzard made, then the inherent newness of the new game will steal large numbers of customers from WoW.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
I hope WoW never gets killed off, at least not until WoW 2 is ready. WoW funds likely led to there being 3 new starcraft games in the works and a diablo III, long live WoW!!
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Originally posted by: DirthNader

All you're describing is mudflation.

Blizzard has done an excellent job of making sure new items exist for the purpose of enabling new content. If anything, they're doing the opposite of what you describe in the last sentence, and using the content as the lure that keeps people on the gear treadmill. Want to see the next raid instance? Better get the current stuff on farm so that you'll have the gear to manage the next raid.

Where I think mudflation and Blizzard's methods of dealing with it will eventually stop WoW's growth is in new player subs. Even with the changes to speed up leveling in the old world, bringing a new character up from nothing to level 80 is a daunting task.

The KOTOR MMO will more than likley flop. I say that as a huge Star Wars fan. It'll be interesting to see how Bioware handles Jedi in an MMO, because SOE completely botched it (I had a DJK before the first round of sweeping changes to SWG, so I can speak from first-hand experience there).

Yes, it is absolutely mudflation I'm describing. Does it matter if they are inflating equipment to get people to the new content or creating new content to get people inflated equipment? Either way we end up in mudflation. And it is unavoidable. An action RPG like almost all MMOs are character development driven. If your character stops developing it becomes boring. Once it becomes boring people move on to something else. The only way to keep the treadmill going is to keep the stats inflating. And as anyone that has played MUDs knows, this is the eventual downfall of the system.

I?ve been an IMP or developer for 3 different MUDS for more then 15 years. I?ve banged my head against that wall more times then I can count. There is no solution. All such systems die of their own weight.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,078
136
Originally posted by: Anubis
WoW will die off with the release of one of the following

World of Warcraft 2
World of Stracraft
World of Diablo
Thats pretty much how I see it.
I hate MMO's and wow in particular, but I will admit they are keeping the PC platform alive.
The RTS's and TBS's arent enough by themselves, and all the shooters are designed for consoles first then ported over. Same problem with most (not all) of the single-player RPG's.
The handful of original content we get is not enough to keep us alive. We need the MMO's.
And if they ever do a proper MMO for the consoles (not Final Fantasy 11) we are all completely screwed.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
0
0
I don't want to come across like a Blizzard / WoW fanboy.

For one, I hate what it's done to the MMO market, simply because it's changed the measure of what a successful MMO is. Prior to WoW an MMO with a few hundred thousand subs was considered a great sucess. After WoW sub numbers like that are considered a flop.

Second, I (nerd) raged against Blizzard when WoW catered more and more to one playstyle (hardcore raiders). When we were essentially told "raid or quit", I chose quit, and stayed away for two years until I saw that Blizzard's attitude had changed.

Originally posted by: darkrisen2003
Wow only has a handful of races and classes. Everquest gives more of the pen and paper role-playing feel due to the large amount of races and classes to choose from. Wow forces you to play every class a certain way if you expect to get into end game adventures. Everquest has more versatility with the classes and players are not forced to play only a specific way to be able to excel.

It sounds like you haven't played WoW in a while. It's not like that at all anymore. I can't think of a class that doesn't have at least two different styles of play. Rogues and mages come to mind, but my friends that play them will tell you differently.

The ironic thing is that the era of WoW you're describing, where if you wanted to progress as <insert class> you had to play as <insert playstyle>, was primarily the result of Blizzard giving free reign for endgame design to a couple of former EQ players. They're still around, but they've either willingly changed directions or had their wings clipped by people above them.

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Does it matter if they are inflating equipment to get people to the new content or creating new content to get people inflated equipment? Either way we end up in mudflation. And it is unavoidable. An action RPG like almost all MMOs are character development driven. If your character stops developing it becomes boring. Once it becomes boring people move on to something else. The only way to keep the treadmill going is to keep the stats inflating. And as anyone that has played MUDs knows, this is the eventual downfall of the system.

I think Blizzard's ace-in-the-hole here is that they excel at content design, and have (mostly) avoided rehashing content. I'm sure there's someone screaming "NAXX" at me right now, but face it, it's brand new content to 95% of WoW's current and former players.

If the content is compelling, people will stay on the treadmill indefinately. If you're talking simple stat inflation, then boredom will set in quickly. I'll use SWG as an example since I played that for a couple of years... Diablo-style loot was added in an attempt to spice up what little PvE content there was, and when the loot trivialized the then-current content SOE simply increased the stats on the mobs without releasing any unique content to go along with it. There was character progression, but it was entirely hollow. People quit. Everyone knows what's become of SWG.

Where we agree that the inflation will kill them is more in the natural churn of subs. People are going to quit WoW for reasons unrelated to the game - family, work, new hobbies, etc - and now they're depending on new subs to replace them. Once the barrier to entry gets huge (personally I think it already is) there will be fewer new subs coming in to replace the natural shedding of veterans. This will be a slow process though, not an overnight plummet.

I also think folks are reading too much into people leaving for a new MMO. From what I've seen personally, it's often more to do with players feeling like they've got a better chance to make a name for themselves in a new game than it is wanting something entirely new. Going back to SWG, I knew a lot of players that were there at launch because they felt locked out of EQ's high-end content and were hoping to better their station in the virtual world in a new game.
 

SupaDupaPan

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2004
1,071
0
76
Originally posted by: lifeobry
Originally posted by: SupaDupaPan
This. Many new players now coming into WoW after the expansions seem to have a difficult time trying to adjust due to the lack of lower leveled players (that is unless they already have higher leveled friends to come help/level new characters with them.) All the pre-bc content is fairly empty and the newer players have more difficulty it seems finding groups and parties to do instances and level with.

I only started two months ago and had no issues leveling up by myself. The game is essentially single-player unless you want to do an instance.

I don't forsee any MMO toppling WoW. Blizzard is not going to let their cash-cow die, and they have the skills to keep it interesting for the majority of players. Diablo III is the biggest "threat", as it is very WoW-ish in gameplay.

But see, there's the difference. A lot of people play MMO's for different reasons. I had several people want to play WoW, because they wanted a community to play with and they play it to meet people and enjoy themselves too. They like the interaction. Some players do not enjoy playing by themselves and soloing. While I like to solo, I would definitely not enjoy playing a game where I feel like I'm the only one out there doing something. If that were the case, I'd go and play a single player RPG than an MMORPG.

Everquest was once the biggest cash cow ever. However, it slowly died away with the expansions that continued to come out. While some players still play today, it has no where near the numbers it used to have. WoW is just following in its footsteps.
 

darkrisen2003

Senior member
Sep 13, 2004
382
0
76
Originally posted by: SupaDupaPan
Originally posted by: lifeobry
Originally posted by: SupaDupaPan
This. Many new players now coming into WoW after the expansions seem to have a difficult time trying to adjust due to the lack of lower leveled players (that is unless they already have higher leveled friends to come help/level new characters with them.) All the pre-bc content is fairly empty and the newer players have more difficulty it seems finding groups and parties to do instances and level with.

I only started two months ago and had no issues leveling up by myself. The game is essentially single-player unless you want to do an instance.

I don't forsee any MMO toppling WoW. Blizzard is not going to let their cash-cow die, and they have the skills to keep it interesting for the majority of players. Diablo III is the biggest "threat", as it is very WoW-ish in gameplay.

But see, there's the difference. A lot of people play MMO's for different reasons. I had several people want to play WoW, because they wanted a community to play with and they play it to meet people and enjoy themselves too. They like the interaction. Some players do not enjoy playing by themselves and soloing. While I like to solo, I would definitely not enjoy playing a game where I feel like I'm the only one out there doing something. If that were the case, I'd go and play a single player RPG than an MMORPG.

Everquest was once the biggest cash cow ever. However, it slowly died away with the expansions that continued to come out. While some players still play today, it has no where near the numbers it used to have. WoW is just following in its footsteps.

**********************************************************

Funny thing is that the wow "community" is comprised of snotty little ADD kids 95% of the time. If you enjoy grouping and talking don't do wow because I swear people don't communicate in that game they just ramble pointless nothings into chat to start flame wars and thats the extent of chat in the game. Grouping was almost unbearable to me due to the little no patience kids that would disband within 2 minutes if the group wasnt ready forceing more wait time before any fun could be had. Which also contributes to my earlier point of Everquest having more options due to more races/classes. In everquest you had at least 3 tank style classes, several hybrids, 3 healers, plenty of DPS, several croud control classes, and some that could be substituted for what you needed. There were benefits of having specific party make-ups but you could substitute plenty of class combo's to make up for what was missing in the party. In wow you pretty much are forced to have specific party make-ups which pissed me off. I played wow well into the burning crusade XP and got to max level and quit. I highly doubt that much has changed since I left in all honesty.
 
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