Will there be any payback for better ram

[beaser]

I've been rolling my own for many moons but it's a cycle. Recently it's the bi anual upgrade and gnu puter build season for me and the family. I'm puting the following together for myself and had a few questions about the payback of overclock on the I5 and 7CPU's and X58 mobos

I have bought
i7-950
Gigabyte GA-x58a-ud3r
OCZ 100 gig vertex 2
2 WD 1 gig sata drives
1.5 gig hot swap sata drive
Sapphire vapor 5770
Corsair HX 650 power supply
LianLi PC500R red and black adonized case
Dell U 2410 wide gamut monitor
Samsung 2443 bw
spyder 3 elite version4
The jury is still out on the
cpu cooler will depend on ram choice most likely noctual 14D

My stumbling block is ram. At present I have 12 gig of GSkill 1600 mhz RipJaws 9-9-9-24 and it's stable and not overclocked. Every 2 or 3 years I become an expert for a few months and then get back to boring humdrum stuff. The I7 is new to me totally.

My original plan was to stay stock but for some extra I can buy some faster ram. As I said I have nil experience with I7 and I'm not sure how the faster timing or speed would effect an overclock. My local puter store has a few sets of faster stuff
G.SKILL Trident Series DDR3 1600MHz 12GB (3x4GB) (F3-12800CL7T-12GBTDD) 7-8-7-24-2n 1.65 volt

Corsair DDR3, 2000MHz 12GB (3x4GB) , 9-10-9-27, XMS3 (CMX12GX3M3A2000C9)

I'm also tempted to ditch the 12 gig and go with 6 gig of mushkin redline. I do amateur photography on a pretty big scale and 12 gig would certainly be more than enough for lightroom and photoshop PS5. It's my mad scientist going up against the sensible.



I may have built a pile of puters but what's happening now is new and I'm trying to bring myself up to speed. I'm clear on the fact that 1066 mhz is fine for stock speeds but I'd like to overclock. I have been led to believe that 1600 mhz cl7 is ideal. Could someone please set me straight on this.

Thanks for any input

 

[thedosbox]

I'll defer the overclocking question to someone else, but you may want to look for memory that runs at 1.5 volts.

Also, that looks like a somewhat unbalanced system (i7-950 & 5770).

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Welcome to Anandtech.

 

[RussianSensation]

i7-950

Intel's 2nd generation Core i7 launches on January 9, 2011. 2600k with Hyper Threading is far better than the Core i7 950. You will need Socket 1155 motherboard. With Sandy Bridge 2600k, to overclock all you'll need to do is increase the CPU voltage to 1.35-1.375V, and crank the CPU multiplier to 45-47x to reach 4.5-4.7ghz. Done.

Here is a more specific set of guidelines as to what you need to set exactly in case you run into trouble.

BTW, don't forget to buy aftermarket thermal paste if you don't have any. Tuniq TX-4 is my recommendation for $7; it's not electrically conductive which makes it safe and its performance is among the best, if not the best.

OCZ 100 gig vertex 2

120 gig version is actually cheaper. Just a heads up that Vertex 3 should come out in the 1st half of 2011. So if you aren't going to store too much on this OS drive, grab the 60GB version for now and upgrade later to the Vertex 3.

2 WD 1 gig sata drives

Is 1 of these for backup? Since you already have a very fast OS drive, grab a 2TB for storage. $100 Samsung F4 for example.

Alternatively, these $60 1.5TB from Western Digital should be great for backup/storage.

Sapphire vapor 5770

Are you going to play any games? If not, this is way too fast. If yes, then grab the Galaxy GTX470 (one of the quieter 470s) for $205 OR the Zotac AMP! GTX470 (even better!) ~ $250 . The reason I recommend the 470 is because it will accelerate Photoshop CS5 with CUDA. If you are not going to be overclocking at all and don't feel like spending this much on a GPU, you can grab Socket 1155 H67 motherboard. Since Sandy Bridge processors already have a built in GPU, there is no need for a discrete solution. Just food for thought.

cpu cooler ewill depend on ram choice most likely noctual 14D

There is no need for something this good for SB unless you are pushing > 5.0ghz. But if you are settled on spending $80 on an air cooler, Thermalright Archon is the best. Although I would check if the height is an issue for your case.

Not sure which Lian Li case you were looking at. I think the 354R is a stunner!! If you have any specific questions about this case (i.e., heatsink support/clearance issues), check out this extensive thread at HardOCP forums.

If you want to save some $, grab the Corsair A70 for $29. With dual 120mm fans, can't beat that value.

My stumbling block is ram. At present I have 12 gig of GSkill 1600 mhz RipJaws 9-9-9-24 and it's stable and not overclocked.

How about a compromise? Socket 1155 has 4 slots for Ram. Grab 8 Gigs (2x4GB) for now. If you see that you exceed this amount, you can always add more Ram into the 2 empty slots. This way, you end up getting 8 GBs for just $75. If you are going to be overclocking, then grab DDR3-1600 mhz for $110.

Welcome to AnandTech

 

[beaser]

I'll defer the overclocking question to someone else, but you may want to look for memory that runs at 1.5 volts.

Also, that looks like a somewhat unbalanced system (i7-950 & 5770).

The ram that I have in the board now is G Skill 1600mhz 9-9-9-24 running at 1.5 volts. I did notice that the Trident cl7 ram is spec'd at 1.65



The 5770 is for photo editing on multiple monitors and actually severe overkill for that task. The Sapphite ATI 5770 multi head has 4 separate Look Up Tables (LUT's) to hold the calibration info for each monitor.

 

[beaser]

Thanks for all the info but I've bought everything. If I waited for the next processor I'd never have anything. I've been building since the mid 80's and every time I update or upgrade things are totally different. So far as the backup drives, I duplicate the backups. I'm anal about losing my picture files. I shoot raw which is a massive uncompressed file (digital negative)

My main question is all about ram. I had bought 12 gig of the 1600mhz 9-9-9-24 GSkill and it runs just fine. I figured since I've come this far a few extra bucks wouldn't hurt and my 2 week return period is almost up.

I've overclocked in the past and figured why not do it again. The learning curve is a little steeper but that's what keeps us sharp.

How much more stability would I be buying with the Trident 7-8-7-24 1600mhz set and where would that put me safely (approximately) 3.8 ghz???

Thanks for any feedback

 

[Zap]

What do you hope to get out of the faster RAM? With triple channel, I'd imagine memory bandwidth to be of little concern. You can test for this yourself by UNDERCLOCKING your existing RAM to see how it impacts (or not) your day-to-day computing experience for a day.

 

[beaser]

What do you hope to get out of the faster RAM? With triple channel, I'd imagine memory bandwidth to be of little concern. You can test for this yourself by UNDERCLOCKING your existing RAM to see how it impacts (or not) your day-to-day computing experience for a day.

I was asking that question because i don't know the answer. I thought that to overclock you required fast timing. I fully understand that stock speeds 1066 is all that's required.

I have about one more day to return the 1600 mhz ram (9-9-9-24) and buy the same speed with faster timing. Are you saying that I can safely overclock with that ram.

This overclock routine on the i7 series is nothing like I've experienced before.

If all i need is 1333 (9-9-9-24) then I can save myself another $50.

If it's not to much trouble can someone straighten me out on this topic.

 

[Davidh373]

I was asking that question because i don't know the answer. I thought that to overclock you required fast timing. I fully understand that stock speeds 1066 is all that's required.

I have about one more day to return the 1600 mhz ram (9-9-9-24) and buy the same speed with faster timing. Are you saying that I can safely overclock with that ram.

This overclock routine on the i7 series is nothing like I've experienced before.

If all i need is 1333 (9-9-9-24) then I can save myself another $50.

If it's not to much trouble can someone straighten me out on this topic.

you aren't going to be using triple channel ram if you wait for Sandy Bridge to release in 2 DAYS anyway. send that back. Get a good set of 2 4GB 1.5V GSkill sticks here:


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-416-_-Product

 

[Zap]

I thought that to overclock you required fast timing. ...
Are you saying that I can safely overclock with that ram.

You need to develop a better understanding of overclocking.

On most (but not all) platforms, to overclock the CPU you increase the BUS speed, sometimes referred to as BCLK/FSB/HTT depending on platform.

The "problem" is that usually everything runs off the same BUS speed. Thus you increase BCLK (on your socket 1366) and stuff like memory and PCIe speeds go up.

PCIe is really a non-issue because Intel allows it (and most mobo manufacturers implement it) to be essentially "locked" at the proper 100MHz. Also, you won't gain any performance benefit by clocking the PCIe higher (which is possible) but you may lose stability, so you want PCIe at 100MHz.

Memory on most platforms is not much of an issue as long as your memory is "fast enough." Why? Because most motherboards (platform limited) allows you to manually adjust memory multipliers. Here's a simple way to think about it: Let's say your BUS speed is 100MHz and you have memory that runs at 100MHz, and the two are linked. You overclock your CPU to 133MHz, which also overclocks your memory to 133MHz. What if your CPU was perfectly stable at that higher speed, but your memory wasn't? You'd want to buy faster memory, right? Buy 133MHz memory so that the memory stays stable at your CPU's overclock. Okay, but what if you can adjust the memory multiplier? What if you can tell the motherboard to run the memory at a "75MHz" or "3/4" setting? Once you clock your CPU to 133MHz, your memory now becomes 100MHz. Hey, faster CPU and stable memory at the same time!

Now, what about running faster memory or lower latencies? Doesn't that increase performance?

Yes, however...

Unless the platform was memory bandwidth starved (which IMO yours is not) beyond certain benchmarks you won't see much tangible increase in performance. If the faster memory costs you more money (which it does) then you can use it on something else. For instance if the Trident memory you mentioned cost $50 more and the 1333MHz memory $50 less, then is there a $100 performance difference between those two sets of RAM? If you're a gamer you are better off putting the extra $100 towards more video card. If you are a power use, maybe put the extra $100 towards more CPU. If you're an overclocker, maybe put the extra $100 towards better CPU/case cooling.

Now, if you already have the best of EVERYTHING (980X CPU, $400 mobo, three graphics cards, PSU that can pop house circuits, all drive bays filled, everything water cooled) and still have extra money to spend, then faster RAM is a wonderful idea.

Oh yeah, if you are running some really slow DDR3 sticks (they're available starting at 800MHz data rate, half of your DDR3-1600) then faster memory for overclocking would be needed.

 

[beaser]

At last and I have to say that was an excellent answer. I had almost given up. I was holding off on buying a cooler because the faster 5ram had whacking great heat sinks.

Thanks

Beas

 

[exar333]

No, faster RAM will not offer any huge benefits to you. If your current RAM fails, get the fastest you can for a good price. Replacing 1600mhz with faster would be a waste of time/money IMHO unless you want a benchmarking machine.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Thanks for all the info but I've bought everything.

When? Is it too late to return the CPU & mobo?

 

[beaser]

When? Is it too late to return the CPU & mobo?

I'm not about to repack a motherboard and processor. I quit chasing the pot of gold a few years back. there's always something newer but not necessarily better. Now if it was a new camera with a faster frame rate and better ai servo focus

Besides it isn't at all fair to the supplier.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

So be it. If you're ok with wasting money, getting less performance, and buying into a dead platform then who am I to say boo.

Enjoy your new overpriced build that has no upgrade path.

 

[Davidh373]

I'm not about to repack a motherboard and processor. I quit chasing the pot of gold a few years back. there's always something newer but not necessarily better. Now if it was a new camera with a faster frame rate and better ai servo focus

Besides it isn't at all fair to the supplier.

like we always say... ask us before you buy... the i5 2500K is faster, and total platform cost will be about $150 cheaper than 1366...

 

[Davidh373]

Enjoy your new overpriced build that has no upgrade path.

lol, my thoughts exactly haha!

 

[smakme7757]

So be it. If you're ok with wasting money, getting less performance, and buying into a dead platform then who am I to say boo.

Enjoy your new overpriced build that has no upgrade path.

The problem is that people who don't follow the industrie don't know what their missing out on. As well as not knowing what's on the horizon or how far away a new release is.

My brother just got a 1156 PC build for him. Unfortunatly he lives in Australia and i live in Norway so he had to get a pre built PC, but for the price he payed i could have build a machine cheaper than his and much better performing. We have to keep in mind that not everyone had the same skillset or interest in the computing world that we do. I would presume i have spent thousands of $$$ on my car when someone else could have fixed them all in 5 minutes for nothing.

I still agree with you by the way, but i was just makeing an observation ()

 

[beaser]

Not very friendly! Be happy and help others. i've built sytems since the mid eighties and every 2 years i get back into it and refresh my knowledge. I can never remember this site being this petty and vendictive. Hang your heads in shame!

 

[Davidh373]

Not very friendly! Be happy and help others. i've built sytems since the mid eighties and every 2 years i get back into it and refresh my knowledge. I can never remember this site being this petty and vendictive. Hang your heads in shame!

umm... right, you are the one who bought the 4 year old platform right before Intel's largest jump in at least 10 years and we're the one's to be ashamed. Don't get us wrong here, the i7 9xx is fine (after all, I own one), but for someone to come in here and call us "petty and vendictive" after we've helped you, and are still trying to get you to save a lot of money for better performance, that is pretty low dude...

Not to mention, we know of all the problems that platform has... It was good 4 years ago, but not today... not when there is much better hardware to be had...

EDIT: You were actually the one to come in here wanting to save $50 on RAM, we just tried to tell you how to save more money, and you acted like we were the bad guys.

 

[deepinya]

I'm not about to repack a motherboard and processor. I quit chasing the pot of gold a few years back. there's always something newer but not necessarily better.

You didnt have to chase anything since the chip is already out in some places.

Normally Id agree with you that there will always be something better down the line and you can never keep up BUT in this case you jumped the gun by a mere few days.

 

[thedosbox]

Let it go. The OP may have jumped the gun, but he's still got a very capable system. Could he have got better value? Sure, but we're all guilty of succumbing to the new & shiny at some point.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Not very friendly! Be happy and help others. i've built sytems since the mid eighties and every 2 years i get back into it and refresh my knowledge. I can never remember this site being this petty and vendictive. Hang your heads in shame!

Sorry if my response seemed harsh, although it was sugar coated.

If you bought your parts within the last 2-3 months then you didn't do your research otherwise you would've saw that 1336 is practically dead and Sandy Bridge wasn't far off. If you had no choice and needed to build something your money would've been better spent on 1156.

 

[Zap]

umm... right, you are the one who bought the 4 year old platform right before Intel's largest jump in at least 10 years

Right. Socket 1366 came out late 2008, not 4 years ago. Sandy Bridge is not as big a jump over Clarkdale/Lynnfield IPC as Core 2 was over Netburst, and that was in 2006.

If you bought your parts within the last 2-3 months then you didn't do your research otherwise you would've saw that 1336 is practically dead and Sandy Bridge wasn't far off.

1366 is not dead until Ivy Bridge comes out. Until then it is still a higher end platform than socket 1155, with more PCIe lanes, more memory channels and more CPU cores.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

1366 is not dead until Ivy Bridge comes out. Until then it is still a higher end platform than socket 1155, with more PCIe lanes, more memory channels and more CPU cores.

If it's a useless waste to buy into, how is that not dead.