Will US ever gonna learn something ?

[Sabbathian]

US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

 

[Sunbird]

Watch that movie "Team America: World Police", it explains it all very well.

And I don't thinks countries should just be interested in what happens within their own borders, but must take multilateral action to right wrongs, like dictatorships.

 

[Promethply]

Not until the US stop worrying about losing its Status Quo as the most powerful country on earth bar none.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Sunbird
Watch that movie "Team America: World Police", it explains it all very well.

And I don't thinks countries should just be interested in what happens within their own borders, but must take multilateral action to right wrongs, like dictatorships.

We can't invade america, the military is just too strong because of the extremely bloated military budget, sometimes we have to give up.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

Perhaps if other people would police themselves, there would be no reason for us to do it!!!!!

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

Perhaps if other people would police themselves, there would be no reason for us to do it!!!!!

What? Vietnam policed itself didn't it? Korea? Iraq? How about the many countries where you've trained rebels and killed gevernment officials because they were commies and such? That countries around the world has stood for that i do not understand. Maybe it's because you've actually stepped in several places where it was needed.

[Edit]
Oh, and the way you do it is just plain stupid.

 

[Zebo]

When we go broke.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Zebo
When we go broke.

Heh, fat chance.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

Perhaps if other people would police themselves, there would be no reason for us to do it!!!!!

What? Vietnam policed itself didn't it? Korea? Iraq? How about the many countries where you've trained rebels and killed gevernment officials because they were commies and such? That countries around the world has stood for that i do not understand. Maybe it's because you've actually stepped in several places where it was needed.

[Edit]
Oh, and the way you do it is just plain stupid.

Yeah, lets do it the UN way!

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

Perhaps if other people would police themselves, there would be no reason for us to do it!!!!!

What? Vietnam policed itself didn't it? Korea? Iraq? How about the many countries where you've trained rebels and killed gevernment officials because they were commies and such? That countries around the world has stood for that i do not understand. Maybe it's because you've actually stepped in several places where it was needed.

[Edit]
Oh, and the way you do it is just plain stupid.

Yeah, lets do it the UN way!

Hehe, look, i don't like either, but looking at you the looking at them, i'm definently choosing them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I know that most of you peeps were not around 70 years ago and most not even 50.
But look up history books that contain fact and not propagada.

Head in sand does not work for the human race. There will be those that will not paly by the rulse because it is more advantageous not to. And when every telse does, it makes the bad persons goals even easier to obtain.

That has gotten the US and other nations into trouble before and it costs an awful lot worse to get out.

The old saying:
Ounce of Prevention vs Pound of Cure.

The problem is that most have not had to experience the direct result of appeasement.

The US w/ respect to the world is the same scenario as having your local law enforcement.

You can not see a need for them until they are needed.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

Perhaps if other people would police themselves, there would be no reason for us to do it!!!!!

Ahhhh, ok

 

[imported_Tango]

Only when a great percentage of people in the US get access to better media, and to the culture to use it.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

every time we pull out of world affairs everyone cries and begs us to come back.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
I know that most of you peeps were not around 70 years ago and most not even 50.
But look up history books that contain fact and not propagada.

Head in sand does not work for the human race. There will be those that will not paly by the rulse because it is more advantageous not to. And when every telse does, it makes the bad persons goals even easier to obtain.

That has gotten the US and other nations into trouble before and it costs an awful lot worse to get out.

The old saying:
Ounce of Prevention vs Pound of Cure.

The problem is that most have not had to experience the direct result of appeasement.

The US w/ respect to the world is the same scenario as having your local law enforcement.

You can not see a need for them until they are needed.

Except we're NOT in the same position. We aren't law enforcement, other countries didn't ever give us permission to police their part of the world. Our sole authority derives from the military and economic power we have. And make no mistake, that is not the same thing. I think situations like this mean we need to exercise more discretion in the use of our power, since we don't have any authority that isn't gained at gunpoint.

That is not to say we should be isolationist, I think the world has moved past the point where that works. But we also need to remember that we have been given no authority by other countries, our actions are essentially vigilante in nature. That's not to say that this sometimes isn't necessary, but I think we forget that we aren't the local cops, and our actions are all essentially strongarming the rest of the world because we have more guns. Sometimes that might be what is needed, but the arrogant attitude that comes with it is what gets us in trouble.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

every time we pull out of world affairs everyone cries and begs us to come back.

Well in those cases I think helping people out is fine. But there is a difference between giving someone a hand because they are being attacked and asked for our help and barging in of our own accord and telling everyone how it's going to be.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
I know that most of you peeps were not around 70 years ago and most not even 50.
But look up history books that contain fact and not propagada.

Head in sand does not work for the human race. There will be those that will not paly by the rulse because it is more advantageous not to. And when every telse does, it makes the bad persons goals even easier to obtain.

That has gotten the US and other nations into trouble before and it costs an awful lot worse to get out.

The old saying:
Ounce of Prevention vs Pound of Cure.

The problem is that most have not had to experience the direct result of appeasement.

The US w/ respect to the world is the same scenario as having your local law enforcement.

You can not see a need for them until they are needed.

Except we're NOT in the same position. We aren't law enforcement, other countries didn't ever give us permission to police their part of the world. Our sole authority derives from the military and economic power we have. And make no mistake, that is not the same thing. I think situations like this mean we need to exercise more discretion in the use of our power, since we don't have any authority that isn't gained at gunpoint.

That is not to say we should be isolationist, I think the world has moved past the point where that works. But we also need to remember that we have been given no authority by other countries, our actions are essentially vigilante in nature. That's not to say that this sometimes isn't necessary, but I think we forget that we aren't the local cops, and our actions are all essentially strongarming the rest of the world because we have more guns. Sometimes that might be what is needed, but the arrogant attitude that comes with it is what gets us in trouble.

The arrogant attitude has been developing due to the fact that the little guys are trying to challenge us becuase of the very reasons that you stated.

The Arabs arejave been trying to dictate economic policy to us.
Other areas of the world are having our allies threatened.
Europe is developing ito an economic power, yet wanted our protection/economic stimulus.
etc.

We can either stand-down and be nibbled to death or confront the threats immediately.
The problem with the confrontation is that others may not feel that it is a real threat, but rather a case of bravdo (mouse that roared).
The problem with stand-down/appeasement is that once you get use to it, then to reverse course is very expense and a large amount of damage will have been down.

There are parts of the world that resent the fact that the Communist threat failed and they sided with the wrong side. The little guys want to try and continue the battle to gain a reputation.

NO WIN Situation.

 

[StageLeft]

Eventually the US will not be the super power, and will have no choice but to be more agreeable to other nations.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
I know that most of you peeps were not around 70 years ago and most not even 50.
But look up history books that contain fact and not propagada.

Head in sand does not work for the human race. There will be those that will not paly by the rulse because it is more advantageous not to. And when every telse does, it makes the bad persons goals even easier to obtain.

That has gotten the US and other nations into trouble before and it costs an awful lot worse to get out.

The old saying:
Ounce of Prevention vs Pound of Cure.

The problem is that most have not had to experience the direct result of appeasement.

The US w/ respect to the world is the same scenario as having your local law enforcement.

You can not see a need for them until they are needed.

Except we're NOT in the same position. We aren't law enforcement, other countries didn't ever give us permission to police their part of the world. Our sole authority derives from the military and economic power we have. And make no mistake, that is not the same thing. I think situations like this mean we need to exercise more discretion in the use of our power, since we don't have any authority that isn't gained at gunpoint.

That is not to say we should be isolationist, I think the world has moved past the point where that works. But we also need to remember that we have been given no authority by other countries, our actions are essentially vigilante in nature. That's not to say that this sometimes isn't necessary, but I think we forget that we aren't the local cops, and our actions are all essentially strongarming the rest of the world because we have more guns. Sometimes that might be what is needed, but the arrogant attitude that comes with it is what gets us in trouble.

The arrogant attitude has been developing due to the fact that the little guys are trying to challenge us becuase of the very reasons that you stated.

The Arabs arejave been trying to dictate economic policy to us.
Other areas of the world are having our allies threatened.
Europe is developing ito an economic power, yet wanted our protection/economic stimulus.
etc.

We can either stand-down and be nibbled to death or confront the threats immediately.
The problem with the confrontation is that others may not feel that it is a real threat, but rather a case of bravdo (mouse that roared).
The problem with stand-down/appeasement is that once you get use to it, then to reverse course is very expense and a large amount of damage will have been down.

There are parts of the world that resent the fact that the Communist threat failed and they sided with the wrong side. The little guys want to try and continue the battle to gain a reputation.

NO WIN Situation.

You are certainly right that we face some interesting issues, and confrontation can often lead to problems. I think that is all the more reason to acknowledge that we aren't in charge of the world, and that there are legitimate reasons for what we do. Getting other people on board would be even better. What we don't want is the world to view us as doing whatever we want for whatever reason and telling them to screw off when they dare to question our actions. Whether this is true or not, I get the feeling it's how a lot of other people see us.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

every time we pull out of world affairs everyone cries and begs us to come back.

Well in those cases I think helping people out is fine. But there is a difference between giving someone a hand because they are being attacked and asked for our help and barging in of our own accord and telling everyone how it's going to be.

since our military is the only one capable of projecting force in such a manner as is usually required i think it's our prerogative to tell people how it's going to be.

 

[chrisms]

U.S. is better than you

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Sabbathian
US is playing world police everywhere ...... will they ever learn that they should stick to their own country and leave other people alone ?

every time we pull out of world affairs everyone cries and begs us to come back.

Well in those cases I think helping people out is fine. But there is a difference between giving someone a hand because they are being attacked and asked for our help and barging in of our own accord and telling everyone how it's going to be.

since our military is the only one capable of projecting force in such a manner as is usually required i think it's our prerogative to tell people how it's going to be.

I guess I just had some fantasy that maybe the human race had progressed beyond the point where the guy with the biggest guns runs the show. Not because I think there is something fundamentally "wrong" about it, but because I don't think the chances of having the best ideas and having all the guns at the same time are very good.

Remember, society developed because the idea of the strongest guy doing whatever he wanted didn't really work very well as far as progress went. Look at how far the human race has come since countries developed the ideas of modern civilization compared to how well we did before. Does anyone really think those ideas shouldn't extend to how countries deal with each other? Really, I'm convinced the turning point in our history came when it was no longer ok for me to kill you and take all your stuff just because I could. Given how much we've accomplished since then, it seems silly to suggest countries shouldn't evolve the same way.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I guess I just had some fantasy that maybe the human race had progressed beyond the point where the guy with the biggest guns runs the show. Not because I think there is something fundamentally "wrong" about it, but because I don't think the chances of having the best ideas and having all the guns at the same time are very good.

Remember, society developed because the idea of the strongest guy doing whatever he wanted didn't really work very well as far as progress went. Look at how far the human race has come since countries developed the ideas of modern civilization compared to how well we did before. Does anyone really think those ideas shouldn't extend to how countries deal with each other? Really, I'm convinced the turning point in our history came when it was no longer ok for me to kill you and take all your stuff just because I could. Given how much we've accomplished since then, it seems silly to suggest countries shouldn't evolve the same way.

That's actually pretty interesting. The evolution of government has indeed gone from tribes ruled by the strongest man, to the more formalized system of the monarchy, to the system of democracies that we now live in. At each step, that evolution was prompted by a need to band together, balanced against the need to keep the same individuals happily working away.

Extended to the world scale where nations are the tribesmen, we have America (previously Britain and France) as the tribe strongman. Personally I think that of all the choices out there, they're the best of the lot. If the pattern holds, next we'll see the breakdown of the tribe into smaller strategic alliances (EU, North America, ??) that equal each other in power. Then, and only then, can the world come to the table and draft strong, binding international law to achieve a higher measure of peace on Earth.

Until then, perhaps about 100 years out into the future, the strongman system is all we have. Could've been worse - the U.S.S.R. could have snatched the A-bomb technology first and pounded the rest of the world into submission under Stalin. Saying that the U.S. should learn to not interfere is bull. Sure, if we want the world to go to hell in a handbasket ASAP. Pull out of the world, and what happens?

The Middle East declares war on Israel. Israel wipes the floor with the lot of 'em, or if losing nukes a wide swath of the land.

North Korea and China bulldoze through South Korea. We may say goodbye to Taiwan too. Japan has no choice but to re-arm and heightens tension in that part of the world even further.

Serbia pounds the Croats into dust and annexes some of its neighbours to boot.

I guess you could say the world's problems have been "solved" - as in, a final outcome has come about. Or are you saying that with the U.S. removed, any of the above nations would suddenly come to the negotiating table and hammer out something peacefully?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I guess I just had some fantasy that maybe the human race had progressed beyond the point where the guy with the biggest guns runs the show. Not because I think there is something fundamentally "wrong" about it, but because I don't think the chances of having the best ideas and having all the guns at the same time are very good.

Remember, society developed because the idea of the strongest guy doing whatever he wanted didn't really work very well as far as progress went. Look at how far the human race has come since countries developed the ideas of modern civilization compared to how well we did before. Does anyone really think those ideas shouldn't extend to how countries deal with each other? Really, I'm convinced the turning point in our history came when it was no longer ok for me to kill you and take all your stuff just because I could. Given how much we've accomplished since then, it seems silly to suggest countries shouldn't evolve the same way.

That's actually pretty interesting. The evolution of government has indeed gone from tribes ruled by the strongest man, to the more formalized system of the monarchy, to the system of democracies that we now live in. At each step, that evolution was prompted by a need to band together, balanced against the need to keep the same individuals happily working away.

Extended to the world scale where nations are the tribesmen, we have America (previously Britain and France) as the tribe strongman. Personally I think that of all the choices out there, they're the best of the lot. If the pattern holds, next we'll see the breakdown of the tribe into smaller strategic alliances (EU, North America, ??) that equal each other in power. Then, and only then, can the world come to the table and draft strong, binding international law to achieve a higher measure of peace on Earth.

Until then, perhaps about 100 years out into the future, the strongman system is all we have. Could've been worse - the U.S.S.R. could have snatched the A-bomb technology first and pounded the rest of the world into submission under Stalin. Saying that the U.S. should learn to not interfere is bull. Sure, if we want the world to go to hell in a handbasket ASAP. Pull out of the world, and what happens?

The Middle East declares war on Israel. Israel wipes the floor with the lot of 'em, or if losing nukes a wide swath of the land.

North Korea and China bulldoze through South Korea. We may say goodbye to Taiwan too. Japan has no choice but to re-arm and heightens tension in that part of the world even further.

Serbia pounds the Croats into dust and annexes some of its neighbours to boot.

I guess you could say the world's problems have been "solved" - as in, a final outcome has come about. Or are you saying that with the U.S. removed, any of the above nations would suddenly come to the negotiating table and hammer out something peacefully?

Er, not so much. I personally think that keeping the peace is a noble goal. But here's the problem, there is a difference between saying, "positive interference is good" and saying "any interference is positive". I didn't say the US should become isolationist (in fact I'm pretty sure I said we shouldn't be), I'm simple saying that we need to be responsible in how we deal with our power and influence.

Although history didn't happen this way, there is nothing about the strongman system that says the strongman can't move the social evolution along a little bit. I think there is a good middle ground where we are good neighbors and use our economic and military power to help out countries that need it (protecting South Korea and Taiwan, keeping Serbia from hurting their neighbors, etc) without arguing that we have the authority to do anything we want because we have a lot of guns.

I guess it comes down to this. I think America has a lot to offer the world, especially when it comes to helping those who need it. But I also think that the world will be better off it we keep in mind that we don't have more rights than any other country.