Win 7 Updates Crippled?

[ronbo613]

Ever since Windows 10 came out, I've noticed that Windows Updates for Windows 7 computers gets more and more difficult. At first, I thought it was a problem with my computer but I've run into a number of different Windows 7 computers over the past few months with the same problem.

Yesterday, I left three different Win7 computers in different locations with Windows Update running. Twenty four hours later, all three computers are still "Checking for Updates". It appears to me that Microsoft is determined to force every customer to use Windows 10 and will make life difficult for those who don't. Since Windows Update worked perfectly on all these computers before Windows 10 and now do not work after Windows 10, what other conclusion can you make?

 

[Ketchup]

Yes, This has been discussed:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2457196&highlight=update
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2421895&highlight=update
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2447182&highlight=update
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2442764&highlight=update

 

[nerp]

To speed things up, disable system restore, delete all your old restore points, turn on automatic updates, stop checking for updates and just let it do it itself. Use the computer and forget updates. They'll eventually come in.

If you want to block Windows 10 upgrades, install GWX control panel or Steve Gibson's Never 10.

That's the solution.

 

[ronbo613]

To speed things up, disable system restore, delete all your old restore points, turn on automatic updates, stop checking for updates and just let it do it itself. Use the computer and forget updates. They'll eventually come in.

I'm sure that works for some people, but I prefer to be in control of what goes on my computer. No automatic anything from Microsoft.

When you walk into a restaurant, do you sit at the table, ask for food and accept whatever they bring you?

 

[sweenish]

Broke metaphor is broke.

A restaurant would be akin to the optional stuff they never install. You chose to go there of your own volition. Like Steam. Or even apps from the Windows Store.

The car analogy works better, but it doesn't fit your narrative. The monthly updates are akin to taking it in for regular maintenance, but you want to approve every nut, bolt, washer, etc. before you allow them to be used by the mechanic.

But it's a good thing we're talking about operating systems and not cars. Since there are occasions where a security update might break something, where that doesn't really happen with a car, assuming your mechanics are good.

I'll tell you one correlation I try to never make. That correlation is equal to causation.

Also, like Ketchup showed, there is no need for another thread.

 

[balloonshark]

I'm sure that works for some people, but I prefer to be in control of what goes on my computer. No automatic anything from Microsoft.

When you walk into a restaurant, do you sit at the table, ask for food and accept whatever they bring you?

I agree. When you update everything manually and it breaks something afterwards you know what caused the problem. It makes troubleshooting much easier. Plus MS has proven time and time again that you can not trust their updates. Fresh updates can contain bugs, break things, change user settings, install bad drivers, install malware, etc.

 

[MustISO]

I've had success by installing the Windows client updates prior to checking for update. I download them ahead of time and install them before doing the check for updates. Works much better on a clean system and seems to do okay with a full patched system.

One of my Windows 7 VMs went nuts trying to check for updates yesterday and no amount of troubleshooting seems to help. This VM has all the WU client patches and it has never been an issue until this month. All my other systems are just fine.

 

[ronbo613]

Broke metaphor is broke.

Choice means no choice.


There's a reason Windows 7 updates took a few minutes a year ago and takes more than twenty four hours today. What is the reason?

Also, like Ketchup showed, there is no need for another thread.

Yet you responded...

 

[nerp]

Choice means no choice.


There's a reason Windows 7 updates took a few minutes a year ago and takes more than twenty four hours today. What is the reason?

The reason is Windows 7 is super old and the update system is long in the tooth and MS isn't revamping core components of a dying OS. There is no conspiracy to get you to update to Windows 10 by slowing down Windows 7 updates. Most people leave automatic updates on and aren't obsessively afraid of updates breaking stuff, which rarely happens and have no idea what's happening in terms of updates. Since the vast, vast, vast majority of people never hit refresh to check for updates, ever, why would MS even bother gimping it just to get a couple fractions of a hundreth of a percent more userbase for Windows 10? It's a FUD theory cooked up by people who have zero insight into the goings on at Microsoft.

The reason Windows 7 runs like a 7-year-old OS is that it is going on seven years old.

 

[sweenish]

Yet you responded...

To re-emphasize how pointless this thread is, and how logically broke your metaphor was.

Obviously didn't show up to show support for the thread.

 

[shimpster]

I'm sure that works for some people, but I prefer to be in control of what goes on my computer. No automatic anything from Microsoft.

When you walk into a restaurant, do you sit at the table, ask for food and accept whatever they bring you?

Sumtimez I do this, especially when dining at an establishment in which the staff speaks no English. Try to use gestures or find an interpreter, but alas, not always available. I must admit, to date no bad food

 

[bradly1101]

I have GWX installed and I assumed that WU checks for that because mine takes forever. I thought I was being punished. :'(

 

[SparkyJJO]

Sigh.

No.

Microsoft has not sabotaged Windows 7 updates.

I've had issues with some systems that are far behind on updates taking forever to get them the first time for years. It is nothing new.

Windows update works perfectly normally on the several dozen Windows 7 machines I manage that I have kept up to date (but many not to Win10 for various reasons, though some will get 10 before the deadline).

 

[blankslate]

I had an issue with Windows 7 "windows update" getting stuck on searching for updates.

I solved it by downloading the latest version of the windows update agent for windows 7 from microsoft
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/949104
-or-
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3135445

if that doesn't work this page has more suggestions. it also suggests getting the latest windows update agent manually among other things.
https://blog.krissmilne.tech/windows/windows-7/windows-7-stuck-on-checking-for-updates

Windows 7 is just getting security patches now. As great as 7 was some moron thought windows 8 is what we wanted... he doesn't work for MS anymore....



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[tidy]

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[nerp]

No, I think what you are seeing are the inevitable consequences of an update system that lets you remove almost every update independently without killing any subsequent ones. This becomes an extremely complex system over time.

Besides, MS have just as much reason to sabotage Windows 8.1 as they do 7. Is 8.1's WU in such a state? No.

Preach. People think everything is a conspiracy. When in the end, it's MS breaking their back for years to make things as compatible and repairable as possible. They think they're getting screwed when in reality it's MS trying hard not to screw people.

All the more reason to move on to Windows 10.

 

[tidy]

.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Windows 10 no longer does the auto driver update if you just change 1 setting (that actually works now vs initial release).

 

[tidy]

.

 

[mikeymikec]

The typical problem I'm seeing with Win7 on multiple machines is as follows:

My laptop for example, doesn't get used often (ie. a month, maybe two may go by without it being used). When WU is triggered on it, one CPU core is used up for literally hours. Once it has been updated, the WU check doesn't take long to run.

On another laptop I have in at the moment, I saw a similar issue to what the OP described - the laptop ran with one core saturated for several hours, the WU CP UI was saying "checking for updates" the whole time, though one interesting thing I noticed (which I think I've seen occasionally before) is that Windows had finished processing updates some time ago (despite a core still being saturated), partly notable because the WU icon had appeared next to the shut down button, and partly because if the WU CP UI is closed and re-opened, it shows updates waiting to be installed and a recent 'checked for updates' time.

I don't mind the idea of the WU CP UI not being updated as it should; as UI bugs go it's easy to work around, but the CPU core saturation issue will a) chew laptop batteries up and b) stress components more due to increased load / heat produced.

No, I think what you are seeing are the inevitable consequences of an update system that lets you remove almost every update independently without killing any subsequent ones. This becomes an extremely complex system over time..

IMO while this is logical, I don't think it's correct (at least not in recent cases). For example, around the time Win7 started having WU issues (first it was the memory chewing bug, 1.7GB at worst in my experience), Vista started having them too. Now Vista is about three years older than Win7, so it would logically follow that if it was down to the sheer number of updates and inherent complexities in processing them, then Vista should have started experiencing that problem some years before Win7 did.

IMO MS accidentally introduced the memory chewing bug on operating systems with more than x number of historical updates (I've observed the bug on Win8 RTM as well, but not Win81), then they fixed the memory chewing bug only to accidentally introduce a core saturation bug. Eventually, once people have moaned at them about it enough, they'll get around to fixing this one as well, like they did the WU bug in XP that caused CPU core saturation.

After writing this I considered the possibility that the date of the last service pack for the respective OS might have a bearing. Vista SP2 was released in 2009, Win7 SP1 was released in 2011, so there still ought to be an approximate 2 year gap.

 

[Executioner]

I have no problems getting only security updates using Autopatcher for both 7 and 8.1. I just finished installing 8.1 fresh on a laptop. Downloaded and installed Autopatcher. After downloading all the updates, there were ~100 or so security updates for 8.1. In less than one hour, it was all updated and running.
I currently have auto updates disabled in both 7 and 8. I rather review updates before installing anything from MS.

 

[sm625]

There is good reason to think its a conspiracy. What motivation is there for a company to design a product that bogs down your machine after several update cycles? The more updates you do, the worse it gets? Gee I wonder. Since one of your cores is bogged down at all times, you are motivated to go and buy a new machine because your old machine is "too slow". And god knows how many people have went to the store and bought a new computer specifically because their old machine was "feeling too slow" and in fact the sole reason for this was simply wuausrv pegging one core constantly and unendingly. I think a class action suit could be won against microsoft, since the sheer number of cpu cycles involved here can only be explained by malice. We're talking about more cpu cycles than a complete virus scan with rootkit and heuristics. All to check for updates? No. Just. No.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Sumtimez I do this, especially when dining at an establishment in which the staff speaks no English. Try to use gestures or find an interpreter, but alas, not always available. I must admit, to date no bad food

At any place decent, you will usually find that they will send out some of their better known/famous/popular dishes in situations like this. You just need to find a way to let them know the approx amount you are willing to spend.

Back on topic. Two of my Win7 systems are stuck this way as well. One of them I plan on taking the leap to Win10 because it is a Win7 Pro license and I can turn off a lot of the "features" of Win10.

 

[SparkyJJO]

What setting and since which update? I've repeatedly tested this behavior in the past, and it's always installed drivers of some kind. It would be great if they had actually fixed it.

Since 1511.

System > Advanced System Settings > Hardware tab, Device Installation Settings > Set to No

This didn't work quite right at first (and it looked different too).

 

[blankslate]

It's not a conspiracy if you read guides on how to fix the windows update agent for win 7...

Or you can imitate Alex Jones and come up with weird theories about MS.


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