Win10 developments push to bring iOS and Android apps to Windows Mobile with ease

[darkewaffle]

http://arstechnica.com/information-...rosoft-brings-android-ios-apps-to-windows-10/

Summary: MS' "Project Astoria" (Android) and "Project Islandwood" (iOS) implementing semi-native support for Android apps and a 'middleware' layer to run iOS' objective C code on Windows 10.

You know, MS' reputation still isn't the greatest because of it's history (equal part mis-steps and mis-conceptions imo) but they really are doing some very progressive work.

I'd be particularly curious to learn how apt of a replacement Microsoft's services can provide for Android apps relying on Google services. I don't see it as especially useful to me, but to your average consumer I think the whole idea of "you have 1 app to perform 1 task" rather than "well go to the website and download the program" is much more palatable and being able to, potentially, run the same app on your Android phone and your Windows laptop may be compelling to them.

 

[Commodus]

I kinda like this move, but it feels like a last-gasp effort.

One of the golden rules of mobile: the moment your app strategy involves supporting apps from other platforms, you've confirmed that your platform is hosed. BlackBerry's Android support was an admission that no one wanted to make BlackBerry 10 apps. Jolla's Android support is an admission that it wouldn't get users based on the strength of its platform. This strikes me as Microsoft conceding that Windows is a failure in phones and that developers won't support it voluntarily unless they can write quick-and-dirty ports.

 

[mmntech]

I like the concept of Windows Phone, but nobody is going to develop for an OS that has less than 3% market share. It's just not cost effective. I'm sure these new tools will help. My concern though is the platform getting flooded with inferior ports. Apps really need to be built from the ground up to fit the device.

What Microsoft badly needs to do is market WP10. If they can crack 10%, they'll be okay. I think that not enough people know about it, and fewer still know what advantages it has over iOS and Android. The lack of apps is only one part of the problem.

 

[fastman]

May be to late sadly. I went to a Win Phone about two years ago and liked it but just now picked up a S6 and went back to Droid because of the lack of Apps.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

May be to late sadly. I went to a Win Phone about two years ago and liked it but just now picked up a S6 and went back to Droid because of the lack of Apps.

I picked up a windows phone on the cheap to try for a few months because my G2 died and while I liked how smooth windows was, the apps were just terrible. It could've been that I was using a cheap $30 nokia phone, but after only a few months of use, I picked up an S6 and discovered I really missed my old apps and discovered some cool new ones in the Play Store.

 

[tsupersonic]

I kinda like this move, but it feels like a last-gasp effort.

One of the golden rules of mobile: the moment your app strategy involves supporting apps from other platforms, you've confirmed that your platform is hosed. BlackBerry's Android support was an admission that no one wanted to make BlackBerry 10 apps. Jolla's Android support is an admission that it wouldn't get users based on the strength of its platform. This strikes me as Microsoft conceding that Windows is a failure in phones and that developers won't support it voluntarily unless they can write quick-and-dirty ports.

Yep, I agree - it feels like a last ditch/hail mary attempt from Microsoft. Like you mentioned RIM/BB did the same, and look where they still are... As much as I want WP to succeed and love the concepts, I just don't see it gaining any popularity. The phone hardware/selection is still lacking (where are the high end phones?!), and there is barely any wearable presence (Microsoft Band is it).

I think they are best suited to sticking with software (Windows/Office primarily), services, and Xbox.

 

[zokudu]

Yep, I agree - it feels like a last ditch/hail mary attempt from Microsoft. Like you mentioned RIM/BB did the same, and look where they still are... As much as I want WP to succeed and love the concepts, I just don't see it gaining any popularity. The phone hardware/selection is still lacking (where are the high end phones?!), and there is barely any wearable presence (Microsoft Band is it).

I think they are best suited to sticking with software (Windows/Office primarily), services, and Xbox.

If you watched the build keynote they showed off a continuum feature (Plugging your phone into a monitor and getting a full Windows 10 desktop experience) that requires new hardware. It's likely they're waiting to release phones that support this new feature when Windows 10 releases.

In regards to cross compiling apps. This is not an emulator running on Windows. It's a tool that takes an android or ios project and converts it into a visual studio project and builds a native application. They mentioned that Candy Crush has been on Windows phone using the iOS conversion tool for months now and has 4.5 stars with 45000 reviews. It runs very well. It's not an emulator it's native, it's just the issue of the UI not matching depending on where apps got ported from.

 

[tsupersonic]

If you watched the build keynote they showed off a continuum feature (Plugging your phone into a monitor and getting a full Windows 10 desktop experience) that requires new hardware. It's likely they're waiting to release phones that support this new feature when Windows 10 releases..

Yes, I saw that...it has been a long while since there has been a new flagship for WP. That's my point. They don't have the diversity of choices like Android nor a premium device like the iPhone. Can't wait till this all pans out, I want to see where market share ends up for WP. It can only go up after all these announcements (I hope)

 

[GTRagnarok]

USB Type-C sounds like a perfect fit for Continuum. It's something I've been wanting for years. Carry your phone all day, then come home and plug it into your monitor to charge it and use it as your desktop at the same time. Or plug it in a laptop and use the phone as a touchpad. As a Windows PC user, I would love to use a Windows Phone as it would make the most sense, but the lack of apps and games is too big of a drawback at the moment. If this new initiative is successful, I could definitely see myself becoming a WP user in the future. Whatever the case, Windows 10 is looking awesome.

 

[arod]

Yes, I saw that...it has been a long while since there has been a new flagship for WP. That's my point. They don't have the diversity of choices like Android nor a premium device like the iPhone. Can't wait till this all pans out, I want to see where market share ends up for WP. It can only go up after all these announcements (I hope)

They really don't need that... what they need is one good phone that does not carry that stupid exclusive carrier bs. They need to produce a good phone that is available on every carrier at the same time. Marketing really does not mean a thing if your target is only 1/4 of the population.

We will see how the android/ios ports go but if that example they gave is any indication these may perform quite well compared to how blackberry did it but we won't really know the answer to this until you actually see how they come over in the real world. Still I think its a good idea if nothing else to get the app count on par with the competition. As long as the apps work well enough people really won't care that it might run slightly slower than the ios/android versions. At that point they start comparing ios and android to wp and that is where wp can shine compared to those two.

 

[Bradtech519]

I was a long time Windows Mobile/Phone user. Spent seven years with Windows Mobile and then Windows Phone through all the iterations. Finally switched over to the iPhone mainly due to a usage case scenario where one game wasn't actively being developed on android that I happen to play a lot. I still like the operating system(WP) better than iOS. The plethora of quality applications on the iPhone is great to have. Now that I've got used to using waze(on wp but never updated), google maps, my local credit unions app, local news station apps, and others it really makes me not want to switch back to Windows on a phone. I could live without the apps but why should I? The OS/live tiles alone isn't enough to win me over. If anything I'm more willing to give up a game, and go to Android. I played around with the Lumia 1520 but the screen was buggy and I got rid of it. Great devices for people that don't want or need certain apps.

 

[reb0rn]

Most ppl need no more then 5 appz, I think with Windows 10 for phone they gona take ~10% market share with no problem, ppl who need phone for stability and usability will switch

rest can play stupid appz @android and iphone

 

[Artdeco]

And the 6 developers that developed for WP have all decided to tell MS to screw off now.

I honestly don't see a way for MS to dig out of its hole, they need to sell off the phone division, and call it a day.

 

[quikah]

And the 6 developers that developed for WP have all decided to tell MS to screw off now.

Actually, one of the biggest said welcome to all the android/iOS devs. http://www.rudyhuyn.com/blog/2015/04/30/android-and-ios-developers-are-my-new-friends/

Well, if they stil don't get any traction with this then they should just close up shop. They are positioning for windows devs, not just windows phone devs. They want all devs to write for windows (all flavors).

 

[zokudu]

Microsoft posted a demonstration video for porting an app from Android.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Insi...ps-with-your-Android-app-code?wt.mc_id=player

It seems to consist of mapping Google Play services to Microsoft services and compiling the Java itself using their SDK. In the same vein what they showed of the iOS tools is the code is still Objective-C, though iOS requires you to import the code into a visual studio solution. It seems Microsoft has built app runtimes for all sorts of code into Windows 10.

Here's a build presentation going over Porject Islandwood in depth.
http://channel9.msdn.com/events/Build/2015/3-610

It's a bit dense but seem to have built Objective-C into the VS 2015 C++ Code Generator (Linking with clang) and compile for their Objective-C Runtime. What impresses me the most about all of these options is they didn't seem to cut corners. They just made Java and Objective-C first party languages in Windows development.

 

[bearxor]

There's something being missed in this discussion that I think is important.

Phone apps are going to be available for and run on the desktop. At the same time, Microsoft is basically giving away Windows 10 to anyone that wants it. That's hundreds of millions of potential customers right off the bat. Developers are going to want their apps to be available to these potential clients so they will port them over quick and dirty and get them on the store. At the same time, this will make them available to the phone devices.

So if you get several millions of people that use your app on the desktop and start making some $ off of it, maybe you spend some resources and polish it up a little bit to make it more in line with the windows UI. But when you make these changes they filter down to the phone version as well so those users benefit.

I still think Windows Phone lacks that "hook". That one thing that is must-have that no other platform has. But, for Windows Phone fans, this is fantastic news. The desktop app market will be so lucrative because Microsoft is basically going to give it away that developers will have to pay attention to it and, by making it a universal platform, they backdoor a nice selection of apps down to Windows Phone. It's actually quite brilliant.

 

[Crono]

I still think Windows Phone lacks that "hook". That one thing that is must-have that no other platform has. But, for Windows Phone fans, this is fantastic news. The desktop app market will be so lucrative because Microsoft is basically going to give it away that developers will have to pay attention to it and, by making it a universal platform, they backdoor a nice selection of apps down to Windows Phone. It's actually quite brilliant.

No platform has a single "hook". Even for Android and iOS it's a lot of little things that make either platform more or less appealing than its competitors. The only huge thing keeping Windows Phone from being used more is it started in 4th (and now stuck in a distant 3rd) place, and the network effect really keeps most users in iOS and Android.

WP does need better flagships soon, though, because LG, Samsung, and Apple are more than competing now on the camera front, which was one of Nokia's main selling points.

More apps, better hardware, and superior integration of services across platforms and device types is how Microsoft could gain more market share. I'm hoping they can.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm surprised that anybodies looking at this as anything other than a positive thing.


And if your looking for a 'hook' how about the fact that WP will be able to run any app regardless of what OS that app was written for? That seems like quite a 'hook'.

 

[bearxor]

No platform has a single "hook". Even for Android and iOS it's a lot of little things that make either platform more or less appealing than its competitors. The only huge thing keeping Windows Phone from being used more is it started in 4th (and now stuck in a distant 3rd) place, and the network effect really keeps most users in iOS and Android.

WP does need better flagships soon, though, because LG, Samsung, and Apple are more than competing now on the camera front, which was one of Nokia's main selling points.

More apps, better hardware, and superior integration of services across platforms and device types is how Microsoft could gain more market share. I'm hoping they can.

Let me elaborate, this is a discussion I have quite often in the office and I just kind of said it and there's probably no context.

Windows Phone is way too late to the game. They enter a market that is essentially dominated by two major players. There needs to be something that is different enough about the platform that makes people say "I have to have that and I can only get it on Windows Phone". I still don't see that.

You're not going to convince people to switch by standing up and saying "oh, oh, me too!" If you enter a market segment and need to pull away customers from other established ecosystems you have to have a clear differentiator that you can scream to the world. So apps can be recompiled very easily to run on WP. Why would someone on Android or iOS that can already run those apps care?

 

[WelshBloke]

Why would someone on Android or iOS that can already run those apps care?

Because one big negative about swapping over has disappeared?

With W10 you can run the app on your phone, desktop, laptop or tablet? Admittedly theres not that many phone apps I want to run on my desktop but I can think of a few that would be nice to use as desktop widgets.

A working unified computing experience free from the worries of what OS that you are using sounds quite appealing.

 

[bearxor]

Because one big negative about swapping over has disappeared?

With W10 you can run the app on your phone, desktop, laptop or tablet? Admittedly theres not that many phone apps I want to run on my desktop but I can think of a few that would be nice to use as desktop widgets.

A working unified computing experience free from the worries of what OS that you are using sounds quite appealing.

Sure it is appealing to a certain user base. Like you and I especially.

But that's not a reason for most people to switch. You can make the argument that if you win the techies over that they begin to convert the others but I don't expect that this move, by itself, will convince a significant amount of Android and iOS users to switch.

 

[vi edit]

Let me elaborate, this is a discussion I have quite often in the office and I just kind of said it and there's probably no context.

Windows Phone is way too late to the game. They enter a market that is essentially dominated by two major players. There needs to be something that is different enough about the platform that makes people say "I have to have that and I can only get it on Windows Phone". I still don't see that.

You're not going to convince people to switch by standing up and saying "oh, oh, me too!" If you enter a market segment and need to pull away customers from other established ecosystems you have to have a clear differentiator that you can scream to the world. So apps can be recompiled very easily to run on WP. Why would someone on Android or iOS that can already run those apps care?

I really think Microsoft is best served just avoiding the flagship market altogether and focus on eroding out the bottom of the market. The $50 Lumia 635's are decent phones for the money. A bit slow and missing a couple features (front facing camera), but otherwise they are solid little phones for what just the sales tax on a full priced iPhone would cost.

When the Lumia 640 comes over, it's a little bigger, full featured and faster. It should be around $80. What's it *really* missing over a mid range Android device or a year old iPhone? Apps. That's really what it's missing. With this, they are addressing the app issue.

They need to embrace any carrier outside of the big three and focus on the waves of people flocking to T-Mobile, Cricket and the various other MVNO's out there. Don't buy some some no name Chinese crap phone. Buy *THIS* instead. Lumia's are well built, the OS is smooth and easy to use, and with the opening up of Apps...sky's the limit for them then.

I think that's where the real play is. Taking out that bottom end of the market and building up instead of down.

 

[WelshBloke]

Sure it is appealing to a certain user base. Like you and I especially.

But that's not a reason for most people to switch. You can make the argument that if you win the techies over that they begin to convert the others but I don't expect that this move, by itself, will convince a significant amount of Android and iOS users to switch.

I'd guess that most people don't care what OS they run, they care more about the apps they run on that OS.
If grandma can do the facebooks with her granddaughter and text her son to fix her fridge she'll be happy with whatever the carrier gives her. And WPs can come very cheap.

This is making the barrier to switch nonexistent (or that's the idea) and as WP has a fraction of the users of the big two they can't fail but to pick up some users.