Win10 may have a new networking issue

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
I've had at least five customers in approximately the last seven days, and I guess I have visited four or five of them, with a very odd networking issue.

The computer complains that it has not picked up a valid IP address from the router. It tends to also say "unidentified network", and allocates itself an IP address which obviously won't work on that network.

When I first encountered this problem, I gave the customer the usual no-brainer things to try themselves like power-cycling the router, rebooting the computer, troubleshooting the network adapter, etc. None of that helped, so I visited the customer.

The customer didn't have any third party security software installed, so there goes that possibility. I tried the most basic thing I'd normally try first, and configured a static IP for that PC that I knew would theoretically allow it to communicate with the router. I then pinged the router and was surprised when it worked. I then set the IP configuration back to automatic and it worked fine.

I've had several customers like this in such a short period of time. Normally I might expect one customer a month with a problem vaguely like this, but I certainly wouldn't expect the above solution to work with it.

I've checked two of the PCs to see whether they had recent Windows updates, but both last had an update on the 11th of November or thereabouts. I think it was a cumulative update for 1607.

I had theorised that all the customers had a router in common, but that's not the case. I then theorised that all affected PCs had been upgraded to Win10, but my most recent customer with this issue recently had a clean install by me on their brand-new computer.

I have no idea what's causing this. I had hoped to come up with a simpler way to fix this problem that I could instruct any customer to do themselves, but no such luck yet.

I haven't seen this problem on an older version of Windows yet.
 

Chiefcrowe

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2008
5,049
182
116
I just heard about this same problem recently! very odd....
This is what he did to fix it:

Start, Run, CMD to open a command prompt:

In the command prompt window that opens, type type the following commands:

Reset TCP/IP stack to installation defaults, type: netsh int ip reset reset.log

Reset WINSOCK entries to installation defaults, type: netsh winsock reset catalog
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
Do you know for a fact if both commands need to be run?

what does the catalog bit do on the end of that command? I think I normally just do 'netsh winsock reset' when I need to reset the winsock.

I wonder what's the difference between Windows resetting the network adapter and netsh int ip reset.
 

Chiefcrowe

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2008
5,049
182
116
Good question, I don't really know if both need to be run since I wasn't there when he was having this problem (on 2 different PCs).

I suppose if it ever happens again you can try just doing the first one and see what happens. I'm guessing he did both just in case.

I don't believe the catalog command is required either.

If you find out what the difference is between Windows resetting the network adapter and netsh int ip reset, I'd be curious to know that too.
 

daveybrat

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jan 31, 2000
5,743
954
126
Thanks for bringing this up Mikey. It's definitely real, and my guess is that it's caused by a new Windows update. I too have had about 6 customer's in the last few days with the exact same problem. I simply ran Tweaking.com and only selected the networking related repairs. Rebooted and they all worked fine.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,088
664
126
This may be a different issue, but from what I have seen Windows 10 is very sensitive to WiFi interference. When I have my WiFi channel set to a busy channel I can get into times when the internet just stops working. Changing the channel fixes it for me. A Wifi analyzer app will help with setting a good channel.

Could possibly be related to mirai worm, lots of malicious wifi traffic floating around these days banging on the door trying to find an opening.

BTW: setting an IP by itself is what windows does since forever (can't remember when they start doing that, Windows 95?). It is an industry standard fallback mechanism when a DHCP server cannot be reached.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
Ran into this over 2 days at least. Internet fell over at around 1500 mid week ish. New cumulative update today . . . . . hasn't happened this weekend.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
Did you try just renewing the DHCP lease?

Not explicitly, though that makes me wonder when a Windows client might ask for a renewal itself.

Possibilities:

During a windows network diagnostic
Disabling and enabling the adapter

It would make most sense during the diagnostic, after all if someone was to write such a diagnostic themselves, issuing that command is simple and fast and AFAIK has no potential downsides.

I wanted to run the diagnostic on my own machine just now, but when the diagnostic detects a seemingly working connection, it aborts early on.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
Ran into this over 2 days at least. Internet fell over at around 1500 mid week ish. New cumulative update today . . . . . hasn't happened this weekend.

What's the update number? I wonder if the KB article mentions a similar issue to the one regarding the OP.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
I've just had a customer contact me with a Win7 PC with the same issue.

(disregard, I'm fairly sure I'm wrong, come to think of it)
 
Last edited:

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
I don't know if it's related, but I had a guy who had some trouble with his Internet connection this week. I had him reboot his computer and all was fine. He emailed me the next day and said that the same thing happened, and another reboot fixed it. He hasn't emailed me since Wednesday (I believe) so I am guessing all is back to normal. His computer is Windows 7, but he did take the Windows 10 upgrade, decided he didn't like it, and asked me to roll it back.

mikeymikec, do you know if the Windows 7 computer had the Windows 10 upgrade at some point? From what I have seen, the easiest way to tell is Scheduled Tasks - Windows will shoot out all kinds of errors when you try to start it.

Does anybody think the driver updates that Windows is set to do by default might be at play here? Would be interesting to see if anyone could do a driver roll back on one of these and see what happens.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
ketchup: Come to think of it, I think it might be Win10 Disregard my last.

Drivers: It would need to be a driver in common with a pretty diverse range of hardware. All the hardware I've encountered with the problem might have Intel chipsets, but some systems are wifi and some ethernet. At least one desktop (and not a laptop in a desktop chassis). One laptop that I can think of must have been late-2009 or early 2010 era.

I've had one AMD customer with a networking problem during this time but as I didn't need to visit him I don't know whether it was the same issue. His problem wasn't fixed the usual way I've been doing it, I can't remember what he said fixed his problem but it was something simple that I've tried elsewhere. I've advised one customer of the netsh commands via e-mail - two PCs in his house, only one affected and identical hardware, both upgraded to Win10 I believe.
 

mv2devnull

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,503
145
106
I've seen one too. Appeared on or before Friday.
Laptop. Suspected router or ISP first, but switching from wifi to cable, bypassing router, nor replacing router did help. Finally did reboot the Win 10. Problem did not repeat. For now.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
The official advice is simply to restart the computer. Unfortunately, when I ask the customer if they've restarted the computer already, they say yes despite the fact that what they've actually done is shut the computer down and started it back up again. A customer rang this morning and I made sure to point out the difference, they tried it, it worked.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
I wonder if this is due to the fact that shut down in 10 (and 8) is akin to a hibernate/restore, and restart does a real shut down. I still dislike the way they have set this as default behavior.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
You can change it in both. The point is that I seriously doubt the people the OP is dealing with are changing the default befavior, which is why these machines aren'the looking for a new IP address in what is little more than a hibernate (which windows calls shutdown).
 

Chiefcrowe

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2008
5,049
182
116
So this is the latest windows update that was mentioned here -
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3201845

It wasn't clear if the networking issue is fixed with this update, but MS is definitely aware of it since the top of the page has a bar in purple which says:

"If you are experiencing issues connecting to the internet we recommend you restart your PC by going to Start, clicking the Power button, then choosing Restart (not Shut down)."
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
So this is the latest windows update that was mentioned here -
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3201845

It wasn't clear if the networking issue is fixed with this update, but MS is definitely aware of it since the top of the page has a bar in purple which says:

"If you are experiencing issues connecting to the internet we recommend you restart your PC by going to Start, clicking the Power button, then choosing Restart (not Shut down)."

I just thought that it was funny that they put instructions for what to do if you can connect to the internet on a web page.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,131
10,419
136
I just thought that it was funny that they put instructions for what to do if you can connect to the internet on a web page.

We are living in an era where there's a reasonable chance that one has more than one Internet-accessible device in the house
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,692
136
We are living in an era where there's a reasonable chance that one has more than one Internet-accessible device in the house

Thankfully. I still remember XP asking "do you want to search for drivers online?". For the modem...

I had the required drivers already, but at least I had a good laugh.
 
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