Win2k insists to run my Master HDD in PIO mode, help.

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: WebDude
To verify: device manager, ide ata/atapi controllers, nvidia nf4 pata controller, and check the driver. If the provider is nvidia, you are running the SW drivers.

Under Device Manager/IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers, there isn't a "Nvidia nF4 PATA Controller" listing. Just "Primary IDE Controller", "Secondary IDE Controller", and "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller". Also, when looking at the Driver Details for the Primary/Secondary Controller, they both list Microsoft as the driver provider, not Nvidia or any other company.

Also, as mentioned above that I should not use Ultra ATA-133 (which is what this drive is) with Win2k, is this because Win2k with SP4 doesn't support UATA 133? The drive is running in UDMA 6 (unsure if UDMA = UATA 133 or not), according to the diagnostic utility, so perhaps that's the problem. I just need to figure out how to force it to 5.... ahh, now that I think about it, there might have been that option in the BIOS, maybe I'll try that.

Edit - Bummer, the BIOS has options for setting PIO mode, but for DMA it's just either Enabled or Disabled, oh well. I think that might make sense though, that is if Win2k doesn't support ATA133 and the drive is running ATA133 or UDMA 6 (if they're one in the same) through the BIOS, then Win2k might revert to PIO mode. Just need to figure out how to force UDMA 5? I guess it would be, if that's possible.

 

[OCNewbie]

*bump* Where's Anand when you need him?

 

[Slammy1]

The only time this happened to me was a bad cable. Check to make sure the connection is secure, that you haven't bent any pins or anything.

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: Slammy1
The only time this happened to me was a bad cable. Check to make sure the connection is secure, that you haven't bent any pins or anything.

Thanks, haven't thoroughly inspected the cable/pins yet, so I'll have to try that out. I'm still trying to figure out how to force UDMA Mode 5 since the drive, at least at the BIOS level, is connected at UDMA Mode 6 I believe. And as far as I know, Win2k SP4 doesn't support UDMA Mode 6 (ATA133). Thanks again.

 

[Slammy1]

Good luck!

 

[John]

You don't need to 'force' UDMA 5, and it doesn't appear that the NVIDIA SW IDE driver is installed either.

OCNewbie, if you put your optical drives on the primary IDE does the OS report them to be in DMA mode? The answer is probably 'yes'. I don't think you've got a bad cable either. We already know that your drive runs in DMA mode when it's on the secondary channel.

 

[Bozo Galora]

O.K. lets break it down to absolute basics

Win2K SP3 or higher supports 48 bit addressing - which is part of ATA133
You must have a bios that supports it - you do
You must have a HDD that supports it - you do.
Win2K SP3 will support 48 bit only if registry entry is loaded and enabled (set to "1")
MaxBlast software will load and set the key to Win 2K after you load O/S
http://www.48bitlba.com/win2k.htm
You MUST manually check and see if its there and on
Generic windows IDE mobo drivers dont support ATA133 - only nvidia do.

So heres what you do:
First create a folder called nvidia 8-22, then a sub folder "extract".
You go HERE to D/L [mirror 2] and D/L the 8.22 WHQL nvidia nforce drivers. These are for new integrated video chipsets, but have the latest 6.22 IDE drivers.
Put downloaded .exe in nvidia 8-22 folder
Right click (or winzip or winrar) extract the .exe to "extract" folder you created
Note the Win2K/ATA_IDE sub folder
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2635/nvidiascrshot8li.jpg

Now go into dev manager and remove both IDE and busmaster controllers

Reboot into SAFE mode, and run the nv ide.exe in win 2K folder

No nvidia, no ATA133
No 48Bit reg key - no ATA133

All this assumes that your drive does run in PIO (it works) with 80 conductor cable.and jumpered to CS

 

[WebDude]

Well I'm learning a lot through this thread. Didn't realize that win2k had these limitations. It might sound like a cop out, but maybe it would be better to run XP, if that's a practical option for you.

 

[Markfw]

OK, I have the same problem, any hints ? (yes I went to device manager and set it to dma if available)

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
O.K. lets break it down to absolute basics

Win2K SP3 or higher supports 48 bit addressing - which is part of ATA133
You must have a bios that supports it - you do
You must have a HDD that supports it - you do.
Win2K SP3 will support 48 bit only if registry entry is loaded and enabled (set to "1")
MaxBlast software will load and set the key to Win 2K after you load O/S
http://www.48bitlba.com/win2k.htm
You MUST manually check and see if its there and on
Generic windows IDE mobo drivers dont support ATA133 - only nvidia do.

So heres what you do:
First create a folder called nvidia 8-22, then a sub folder "extract".
You go HERE to D/L [mirror 2] and D/L the 8.22 WHQL nvidia nforce drivers. These are for new integrated video chipsets, but have the latest 6.22 IDE drivers.
Put downloaded .exe in nvidia 8-22 folder
Right click (or winzip or winrar) extract the .exe to "extract" folder you created
Note the Win2K/ATA_IDE sub folder
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2635/nvidiascrshot8li.jpg

Now go into dev manager and remove both IDE and busmaster controllers

Reboot into SAFE mode, and run the nv ide.exe in win 2K folder

No nvidia, no ATA133
No 48Bit reg key - no ATA133

All this assumes that your drive does run in PIO (it works) with 80 conductor cable.and jumpered to CS

Did exactly what you said, but there's a problem. When going into safe mode, and running the nvuide.exe file that's in the "C:\nvidia 8-22\extract\IDE\Win2K\sata_ide" folder, it doesn't appear to be an install program, but more of an uninstall program. When you double click it, all it does is pops up a window that lists the flags you can add to the end of the file to use it.

I also tried right-clicking on the .inf file in the above folder, and chosing "install", it appeared to do something, but the .sys and .dll files that were in that folder weren't copied anywhere else on the drive, so I don't think that worked either. Well I know it didn't work that is, after I rebooted out of safe mode, etc., still PIO.

I think perhaps you've got a good suggestion, just need an alternate way to go about installing this.

 

[John]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, I have the same problem, any hints ? (yes I went to device manager and set it to dma if available)

You don't appear to have the NVIDIA SW IDE drivers installed either. Once they are installed you won't see the DMA option for the primary and secondary IDE controller. I've read a lot of comments saying that you should not install them, but in my vast experience they rarely cause problems.

If you don't want to uninstall > driver cleaner > reinstall the nForce drivers then unrar the nforce drivers and manually update the 'standard' IDE controller.

Open the Device Manager.
Double click on [Standard IDE Controller] to display the property window.
Click on the [Driver] tab.
Click on the [Update Driver] button.
Enable [Install from a list or specific location] on the Hardware Update Wizard that appears, then click [Next].
* Under Windows 2000, enable [Display a list of the known drivers for this device so that I can choose a specific driver].
Enable [Don't search. I will choose the driver to install], then click [Next].
* This window does not appear in Windows 2000.
Select [NVIDIA nForce (TM) IDE Controller] from the list, then click [Next].
Restart Windows when installation is complete

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: John
You don't need to 'force' UDMA 5, and it doesn't appear that the NVIDIA SW IDE driver is installed either.

Well, need or not, I think I'd like to do that at this point. Do you happen to know a program/utility that allows forcing of UDMA Modes within Win2k? I think UDMA Mode 5, even if my drive is supposed to run @ UDMA 6, would be better than PIO. So I'll take that and be happy if I can =)

Also, if anybody wants screenshots of any of my Device Manager screens, or anything, feel free to ask and I'll get them up and avail.

 

[Bozo Galora]

I've been researching this a little and there does seem to be issues with this drive

First of all I have found that Win 2K sometimes gives a false PIO mode call on DMA drives
So you have to run HD Tach to see if your drive is indeed running in PIO mode or UDMA

Secondly, heres the utility to set the 48 bit regustry entry from Maxtor:
http://tinyurl.com/8tozv

Thirdly, one cannot run a cable longer than 18" on ATA133

Also, on the Maxblast CD is the option to make a floppy, I believe the dma setter is on there, but I have no Maxtor drives to test it on. If not, you will have to call support to get it.

Heres a quote:
MAXTOR MAKES BAD DRIVES: WE HAVE RECEIVED INFORMATION THAT MANY MAXTOR 250GB 8MB 7200RPM Drives MODEL 6Y250P0062811 (mostly made in June and July 2004) DO NOT WORK PROPERLY IN ANY FIREWIRE ENCLOSURES!
WE HAVE FOUND A SOLUTION: IF you are using Oxford 911+,912 or 922 you will need to change DMA modes down to UDMA5 (down form UDMA6 default) This will fix Transfer Issues with these Maxtor Drives

http://www.cooldrives.com/firewireinfo.html

(Unquote)

If you dont run HDtach, I will have nothing further to say here.

 

[OCNewbie]

Ok, I'll have to run HD Tach, and see how things look, I did download it yesterday I think, just haven't installed/run it yet. Also, just from a memory point of view, I seem to remember my games loading a good bit faster with my 80GB 8MB Western Digital UDMA 5 drive, currently running on IDE2. This 250GB is quite a bit newer, the platters are quite a bit more dense, and it has 16MB of cache, so that's why I'm presuming the reported PIO mode is probably accurate. I will run HD Tach to be certain though. Thanks again for all your efforts Bozo and everybody else =)

 

[OCNewbie]

Ok, ran HD Tach with the 8MB test (there seemed to be a 32MB test as well). I'll add the 32MB test results to this post when that test is done. My 250GB drive makes an awful racket when doing the Random Access test, while the 80GB WD is virtually silent in all tests. I'm thinking of returning this drive to CompUSA and swapping it out for another one. I don't know if it's the PIO mode which is causing this noise, or it's the noise that is forcing the PIO mode.

8MB Test Results - on Maxtor 250GB 16MB 6L250R0

Random Access - 16.4ms
CPU Utilization - 50%
Average Read - 4.5 MB/s
Burst speed on the graph is also 4.5 MB/s

Same test run on my 80GB 8MB Western Digital

8MB Test - on 80GB 8MB Western Digital WD800JB-00ETA0

Random Access - 15.7ms
CPU Util - 0%
Average Read - 49.4 MB/s
Burst - 80.6 MB/s

 

[Bozo Galora]

yep, youre in PIO

call or email maxtor fot dma firmware set utility

as far as nf4 not using maxblast - try it for cryin out loud
all it can do is give an error message

 

[WebDude]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie
Random Access - 16.4ms
CPU Utilization - 50%
Average Read - 4.5 MB/s
Burst speed on the graph is also 4.5 MB/s

OUCH!

 

[OCNewbie]

Called Maxtor, and they didn't really have any suggestions that weren't already mentioned here. They didn't seem to know of a utility that could force Mode 5 within the OS on a drive running Mode 6 within the BIOS. They suggested trying the drive on IDE2 since IDE2 is running DMA mode fine. Or what I just thought of, is running my 80GB drive running DMA fine on IDE2, to switch it to IDE1, and see if it's still DMA. The 80GB still has my old boot information, so that would say whether or not the IDE1 channel was somehow bad with the IDE2 being fine.

I'll probably end up just returning in to CompUSA and swapping it out for another identical model. I'm also probably going to reinstall windows, and before install format the drive into 2 125GB partitions to see if that's a problem.

I also remember when I first tried to install the Nvidia nForce drivers, when it tried to install the IDE driver the first time, it said it could not because SP4 first needed to be installed. So I'll do that as well, install SP4 before I install the Nvidia platform drivers.

 

[John]

OCNewbie, you're really running a lot of circles here.

1) I suggested that you try the Maxtor on IDE 2, and once you did it ran in DMA. Therefore the hard drive is functioning properly.

2) I suggested that you hook up the optical drives to IDE 1 to see if they ran in DMA mode. I don't recall you replying with the results.

3) Partitioning the drive and/or forcing DMA5 is_not going to solve the DMA issue.

4) Even though the ATA133 spec may call for an 18" IDE cable you can use 24" & 36" without a problem.

I believe that you have an OS issue and not a hardware issue.

If you don't have SP4 slipstreamed be sure to install SP4 first, then the nForce drivers, then video, lan, etc.

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: John
1) I suggested that you try the Maxtor on IDE 2, and once you did it ran in DMA. Therefore the hard drive is functioning properly.

I recall you suggesting this, but I did not try this yet. Did I say I had? If so, my mistake, I did not.

I think you're right with the OS problem though. I'm still probably going to visit CUSA tonight, bring back my bare drive, and have them swap it out. I'm still within the 21 day return policy (probably only been a week or so), so they should do that without problem I hope. At least when I worked there 4 years ago or so we'd do that often =)

 

[OCNewbie]

My concern is that the drive was really loud under HD Tach during the random access test, though I'm not sure if the fact that it was in PIO mode would somehow change the sounds the drive makes. Because of this loud vibration/noise, I'm going to return the drive to CUSA and swap it out. So I'll reinstall Win2k, and install SP4 before attempting to install the nForce drivers as well. Hopefully that'll resolve the problem. Fortunately I don't have much of anything on the drive right now, so I don't care if it all goes bye bye.

I'll get the new drive all up and running and report with what happens, thanks again for all the assistance.

 

[John]

You're going to waste gas and time returning a drive that is not defective. Your call though......

 

[OCNewbie]

Returned the drive, and like you said, nothing has changed. I partitioned the drive with MaxBlast into (2) 125GB partitions. Loaded up Win2k from CD. Very first thing I did was check to see if drive was in PIO or DMA upon initial install, and it was in PIO. I selected DMA, reboot, no go.

I then installed SP4 from my hard drive. Checked DMA, no go. I installed Directx 9.0c? (nForce requires it), and then installed the latest, 6.70, version of nF4 drivers. Reboot, still no go. I even swapped cables, and instead of using the Yellow round cables that comes with the DFI nF4 Ultra-D, I used the cable that came with the 250GB Maxtor, and still no go.

Bah, wtf is up with this. Could it be the drive is not getting enough power somehow? I have a somewhat off-brand power supply, Coolmax 400 Watter. All the voltages look stellar as reported in the BIOS. Quite a bit better than the Antec Silent Power 450W I had here briefly.

I do have both hard drives on one 12v power cord out of the PS, though I'm thinking that probably shouldn't be a problem. I'll try removing everything off the IDE2 channel, including power/ribbons, and just run the 250GB all alone with power on the IDE1 channel, and see what happens, haven't tried that yet.

Geezus Criminy, anybody have any other ideas, I feel like I've already reached the end of my rope, wth else could be the problem.... arghhhhhh......

 

[OCNewbie]

Only device on either IDE connector now, and still no DMA mode. Only IDE device powered as well, just the floppy still connected, and still no DMA. I think I've reached the end of my rope. I think I'm going to just return this drive and be satisfied for now with my 80GB, and I do also have an older 40GB Maxtor that still works too. So I could install both of those I presume.

Unless anybody has any other ideas, I don't think this is going to work, and I have no clue why, or where to turn next. Would be cool to find out if anybody that has this drive, an nForce 4 chipset mobo, and is running Win2k isn't having any troubles getting DMA to work.

 

[John]

In regards to HDTach making your drive sound like it's going to throw a platter it's not uncommon You should hear my 74GB Raptor.

Again, try one (or both) of your optical drives, or your WD HDD on the primary IDE to see if DMA can be enabled. If not then try flashing to a new mainboard bios.

FWIW it's not a power problem.