Window for Palestinian state 'rapidly closing': EU

[JEDIYoda]

Who would have figured....somethings never cease to amaze me!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/window-palestinian-state-rapidly-closing-eu-210933041.html

A European Union report obtained by AFP on Thursday says that booming Israeli settlement in the West Bank and limits on Palestinian movement and building are eroding chances of a Palestinian state.

The report urges member states "in coordination with other international actors" to "systematically voice objections" to measures to evict Palestinians from areas under Israeli control.

Unlike many reports on general conditions in the Palestinian territories, the 16-page internal study by EU heads of mission in Jerusalem and Ramallah focuses on the Israeli-run Area C, which makes up 62 percent of the occupied West Bank.

"Area C comprises crucial natural resources and land for the future demographic and economic growth of a viable Palestinian state," says the report.

A 1995 interim accord between Israel and the Palestinians divides the West Bank into Area A (under full Palestinian control), Area B (under shared Israeli-Palestinian control) and Area C.

The latter includes the border with Jordan which Israel insists must remain under its military control in any agreement with the Palestinians.

Although it is home to only 5.8 percent of the West Bank Palestinian population -- excluding Israeli-annexed east Jerusalem -- the report says that Area C is a vital component in a future Palestinian state based on the borders which predated Israel's occupation in the 1967 Six-Day war.

"If current trends are not stopped and reversed, the establishment of a viable Palestinian state within the pre-1967 borders seems more remote than ever," it added.

"The window for a two-state solution is rapidly closing with the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and access restrictions for Palestinians in Area C."

The study, entitled "Area C and Palestinian State Building," is dated July 2011 but has been kept confidential until now.

It follows an unprecedented report by EU ambassadors in Israel made public last month which voiced concern about the Jewish state's treatment of its Arab minority, and looks likely to place further strain on EU-Israel relations which have been frosty of late.

After the four European members of the UN Security Council (Britain, France, Germany and Portugal) condemned Israel's expanding settlement construction, the Israeli foreign ministry released an angry statement saying that those European states risked making themselves "irrelevant."

Speaking on condition of anonymity, an Israeli official said that the Area C report was "far worse" than the Security Council move.

"There is an invalid methodology here which is repeating itself," he said. "They prepare reports in secret on things concerning us without getting from us information or a reaction or any kind of comment, relying only on material from the Palestinians, directly or indirectly."

"There is forethought here by the consuls... to place themselves at the service of the Palestinian political and propaganda struggle."

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton's spokesperson said the report was aimed at helping peace efforts.

"The report on Area C is intended to serve as a source of information for the European Union and as an input to its policy-making process," Maja Kocijancic said in a written response to an AFP query.

"As such, it should assist the EU in determining how best to achieve the objective of a two-state solution to the Middle East peace process."

 

[Karl Agathon]

its Bozo Netanyahus fault. :twisted:

 

[cybrsage]

Eastern Jerusalem is not annexed.

 

[Lemon law]

accidental double post

 

[Lemon law]

Cheer up JediY, the Israeli Palestinian problem must be solved one day. If a separate Palestinian state is no longer a viable solution becomes no longer viable, Israel will like it so much better when forced to assimilate all its expelled Palestinians with full voting rights.

Choose one or the other JediY, because there are only mainly only those two solutions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Cheer up JediY, the Israeli Palestinian problem must be solved one day. If a separate Palestinian state is no longer a viable solution becomes no longer viable, Israel will like it so much better when forced to assimilate all its expelled Palestinians with full voting rights.

Choose one or the other JediY, because there are only mainly only those two solutions.

Who will force the assimilation?

 

[Lemon law]

Who will force the assimilation?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most likely a world wide economic embargo of Israel. I know I know, EK, you think it will never happen. Either did Peter Botha. But if we look at Israeli present politics, Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed settler parties are busily alienating every one in the world.

 

[Nebor]

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Most likely a world wide economic embargo of Israel. I know I know, EK, you think it will never happen. Either did Peter Botha. But if we look at Israeli present politics, Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed settler parties are busily alienating every one in the world.

You realize that no one cares about the Palestinians, right? Otherwise they wouldn't still be getting screwed 50 years later. No one's going to damage their own economy or risk the ire of the United States just to back the Palestinians, who've proven they'll just fuck things up with a bit of autonomy anyway.

 

[RampantAndroid]

You realize that no one cares about the Palestinians, right? Otherwise they wouldn't still be getting screwed 50 years later. No one's going to damage their own economy or risk the ire of the United States just to back the Palestinians, who've proven they'll just fuck things up with a bit of autonomy anyway.

Maybe it's something like "this land was lost during a war, oh effing well" - as it should be. You don't get to start a war, then cry when your land is taken and you lose.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe it's something like "this land was lost during a war, oh effing well" - as it should be. You don't get to start a war, then cry when your land is taken and you lose.

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Two things wrong with your theory Rampant Android. (1) Its was the Arab States who started the war with Israel in 1948, and not the unarmed Palestinian people. (2) Then there is the UN doctrine that land won in conquest is illegitimate. Last time I checked Israel itself owes it legitimacy to the UN, as Israel signed on to those terms before it it was granted UN statehood in 1948.

As for the Nebot theory that no one cared about the rights of South African blacks, we all know what happened to that assumption.

 

[Nebor]

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Two things wrong with your theory Rampant Android. (1) Its was the Arab States who started the war with Israel in 1948, and not the unarmed Palestinian people. (2) Then there is the UN doctrine that land won in conquest is illegitimate. Last time I checked Israel itself owes it legitimacy to the UN, as Israel signed on to those terms before it it was granted UN statehood in 1948.

As for the Nebot theory that no one cared about the rights of South African blacks, we all know what happened to that assumption.

Are you just trying to point out another group of people that totally fuck things up when given the slightest bit of autonomy? South Africa went from a 1st world nuclear power with a fifth of the world's engineers to the first state to ever become so violently poor and destabilized as to voluntarily surrender their nuclear weapons. 1 in 4 men in South Africa admit that they have raped a woman. And as of 2011, a woman has a better chance of being raped in South Africa than learning how to read.

Yes, I'm sure Israel would LOVE to take the path of South Africa by letting the Palestinians be in charge.

 

[Jhhnn]

You realize that no one cares about the Palestinians, right? Otherwise they wouldn't still be getting screwed 50 years later. No one's going to damage their own economy or risk the ire of the United States just to back the Palestinians, who've proven they'll just fuck things up with a bit of autonomy anyway.

Obviously false. If nobody cared, the Settler faction would have killed them all or driven them across the nearest border long ago.

The EU assessment is fundamentally correct- there can't be a two state solution if Israel takes all the territory, which has been their intention and their action all along. It's a slow motion sort of Lebensraum. They talk as a form of obfuscation.

 

[Nebor]

Obviously false. If nobody cared, the Settler faction would have killed them all or driven them across the nearest border long ago.

The EU assessment is fundamentally correct- there can't be a two state solution if Israel takes all the territory, which has been their intention and their action all along. It's a slow motion sort of Lebensraum. They talk as a form of obfuscation.

They could kill them all or drive them across the border with minimal blowback from the rest of the world. The Arab states would be pissed, but they already hate Israel, so what's the difference?

It's simply far more expensive to kill that many people than it is to cordon them off, disenfranchise them and let them live like animals.

 

[Jhhnn]

They could kill them all or drive them across the border with minimal blowback from the rest of the world. The Arab states would be pissed, but they already hate Israel, so what's the difference?

It's simply far more expensive to kill that many people than it is to cordon them off, disenfranchise them and let them live like animals.

They'd lose the blessings of perceived victimhood granted by the Holocaust and the self imposed guilt trip about that here in the US. They'd end up with nothing but air at their backs, which wouldn't be a good thing in light of how their neighbors perceive them.

And, uhh, they don't let Pals live like animals, they make them live like animals. There is a difference.

 

[Nebor]

And, uhh, they don't let Pals live like animals, they make them live like animals. There is a difference.

I'm fortunate enough not to care either way.

 

[cybrsage]

If the window for a Palestine nation to be invented closes, I suppose Egypt, Syria, and Jordan will just have to repatriate their citizens which they abandoned.

 

[cybrsage]

You realize that no one cares about the Palestinians, right? Otherwise they wouldn't still be getting screwed 50 years later. No one's going to damage their own economy or risk the ire of the United States just to back the Palestinians, who've proven they'll just fuck things up with a bit of autonomy anyway.

Maybe it's something like "this land was lost during a war, oh effing well" - as it should be. You don't get to start a war, then cry when your land is taken and you lose.

That is basically it.

If the Palestinians stopped shooting Anti-Tank missiles at busses fully of school kids, the world just might take their side. Most of the world hates Jews, after all, but it is not possible to side with people who try to blow up busses full of school kids.

An anti-tank missile fired at a clearly marked yellow school bus driving near the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council wounded two people. One of the wounded, a 16-year old school-boy, is in critical condition.

Remains of school bus showing anti-tank hollow charge impact (Photo: Edi Israel)

Two people were wounded on Thursday, 7 April 2011, by an anti-tank missile launched from the Gaza Strip at a yellow school bus near the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council. One of the injured, a 16 year-old boy, is in critical condition. He was airlifted to Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba, where he is currently being treated for severe trauma. The driver was lightly wounded.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...k-missile-attack-on-school-bus-7-Apr-2011.htm

 

[Lemon law]

Yes ctbrsage, there are outrages on both sides.

What gives you Nebor the idea, that if you can provide a incident where a Palestinian terrorist does not behave well, that Israel, who commits far more acts of terrorism and murder against innocent Palestinians is somehow absolved. Nor is Israel involved in only Palestinian terrorism, they are involved in international war crimes and murder all over the mid-east.

Shall I link in all those innocent Palestinians murdered by Israeli settler parties, or the Turks killed by Israeli commando's in international waters, or Israelis killing Egyptian policemen on Egyptian soil, or all the various acts of Israeli international war crimes?

Sadly I fear it would do nothing to change your mind. But face the facts Nebor, you are becoming a smaller and smaller minority. As already 80% of the nations in earth are prepared to vote for a Palestinian State in the very near future.

Nebor, if you want to remain in denial of new reality, please feel fee, because no one will care about your cognitive dissonance and denial. The only one you will fool is yourself Nebor. Even a super power like the USA is not immune from reality. And I think you will find, not even the USA and Aipac can prop up Israel much longer.

 

[randomrogue]

Man it must suck posting in every Palestine/Israel thread and never getting anything right.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Man it must suck posting in every Palestine/Israel thread and never getting anything right.

its basically the same tit for tat stuff here all the time.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Are you just trying to point out another group of people that totally fuck things up when given the slightest bit of autonomy? South Africa went from a 1st world nuclear power with a fifth of the world's engineers to the first state to ever become so violently poor and destabilized as to voluntarily surrender their nuclear weapons. 1 in 4 men in South Africa admit that they have raped a woman. And as of 2011, a woman has a better chance of being raped in South Africa than learning how to read.

Yes, I'm sure Israel would LOVE to take the path of South Africa by letting the Palestinians be in charge.

1 in 4 men in South Africa admit that they have raped a woman.

I have never raped a woman. 1 in 4 men out of 4000 is not the whole South Africa. Thats about 10 percent of 1 township. In the townships figures will be hire due to the way they live and because of culture and believes. But again thats not the whole South Africa

a woman has a better chance of being raped in South Africa than learning how to read

Again 4000 woman in a township is not South Africa

South Africa went from a 1st world nuclear power with a fifth of the world's engineers to the first state to ever become so violently poor and destabilized as to voluntarily surrender their nuclear weapons.

Yes we have build a nuclear bomb and dismantled it while still under the old regime. 6 weapons to be precise. Israel played a role in the construction of it and many of our weapons designed are based on Israeli technology. Did the top secret methods on how to build one disappear? No. The AEC were dismantled. We were the first and only country to build nuclear weapons and to voluntary dismantle it. We also manage to make a transition from oppressive to democratic peacefully without a major civil war or bombing the country to shit. Yes there were stuff that happened prior but in 1992 the transition was peacefully.
Then further Eskom made the transition from State Owned to private. So the Govt funding into more Nuclear plants wasn't there anymore as it has to provide electricity to 3 countries and do repairs out of his own pockets.

Also companies that created weaponry also became from state to semi state to private. Mechem was sold to CSIR in 2000.

But now did it fuck up our country by doing it?

Ok we were one of the leading arms suppliers in the 80's despite our isolation. But in those times of Isolation we had to develop as much as possible for ourselves. The country had to look out for itself basically otherwise we would starve to death and such. We were fighting a war against Cuba supported Angola while defending Namibia as well. So it was needed and the government made it as a priority by creating companies that is state supported run by leading scientist in that field. What also help them was Israel trading the know how as well.

But with the new regime and the democratic election where we got a constitution we had no use for such things anymore. Isolation was over. Support from the outside came in and we could take that what we use to put in weapon design and give it to another place needed like health and education departments.

Yes crime rate is high in some places but in some places its not. You have to understand some place there is communities of 100 000+ living in shacks in a small density. Plus failures to get rid of monopoly businesses quick enough failed to create jobs. Especially with tele communication and power as they gave about 4 local companies licenses. That means high prices as the control the market and the one landline owner where any other ISP with hardlines need to go through them. So no outside companies coming in and investing. Plus a 50 000+ police force was turned into a police service which needed to cover not just a main so called white owned regions but about 70 million people was part of their protection scope as well. It has increased a lot now. But in certain hotspots you will find high crime rates like any other country. Hillbrow got a lot of illegal aliens where they manged to work out schemes to hijack buildings and thx to the laws protecting the owners they are able to get away with it. But it is getting better day by day. Not by a big way but it is improving.

Also some of the black cultures there is a believe if a woman is a lesbian she must be raped and that will cure her. Also woman in that culture wearing a short dress ask for it. They normally rip her clothes from her body if she wears one but they wont normally rape her. Then theres the terrible one that sex with a baby can cure aids. A lot of the cases in the townships and where the surveys are done are related to that.

So no the country haven't gone to shit. Its just the previously ignored people are now listened to as well.

Just to let you know I'm a white South African who grew up on a farm and are called a Afrikaner. Misleading thing was they stamped the Afrikaner as the people who was the so called bad guys in Apartheid. Yet we lived on farms 50 to 60km's away from our mates and the black community living on the farms were our best mates. We grew up together and learned more from their cultures than any one would ever imagine. They worked like any other job 5 days a week got food and alcohol for free and lived in houses bigger than any shack you will find anywhere. That is how the so called Boere lived.
Last thing on a farmers mind is politics as the grain and live stock was your only concern. That is what will fill your and other people in the countries tummies. Unfortunately the new govt neglected the farmers of today. They bought grounds from settled farmers who's experienced and gave it to people claiming its their land from 100 years ago. You can imagine giving a big piece of farm to a person who has no farming knowledge. What happened. On a 100 hectar farm 1 hectar is 100x100meters those new farmers grew a garden growing a couple of tomatoes and some other vegetables. That garden is about 10 meters in length.

What did the farmers do. They took the money from the land settlement and chucked off over to NZ and Australia where those Govt payed them to come and farm there. If it wans't for the Zimbabwe which shows what happens when hate overpowers the hand that feed the country our economy would have been struggling a lot more.

 

[Nebor]

I realize you think you just defended South Africa, but you actually made it sound worse.

By most measures (crime, economic prospects, military strength, etc.) South Africa was better off 20 years ago than it is today. One theory is that those "previously ignored people" really fucked things up once you started listening to them. Or it could just be a coincidence.

 

[randomrogue]

Be careful with SA statistics. Most of the bad things are in Johannesburg. What about the other 90%+ of the country? Sorry, but I can avoid Johannesburg quite easily if I want to go to Kruger National Park or Cape Town.

With that said Johannesburg scares me. They stab first, rob later. They don't even have the common courtesy to ask me for my wallet.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Be careful with SA statistics. Most of the bad things are in Johannesburg. What about the other 90%+ of the country? Sorry, but I can avoid Johannesburg quite easily if I want to go to Kruger National Park or Cape Town.

With that said Johannesburg scares me. They stab first, rob later. They don't even have the common courtesy to ask me for my wallet.

Not Johannesburg. Hillbrow and other townships. Johannesburg is fine its just certain areas is high crime places. I mean any city have such places. Don't think there's much cities without a slums. Khayelitsha is a township so big that its police station got its own morgue. To really put that in prospective for the rest of cape town there are two morgues where the third one belongs to Khayelitsha. Mitchells Plein in the Cape Flats is almost another city inside itself and has its bad and good areas.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

I realize you think you just defended South Africa, but you actually made it sound worse.

By most measures (crime, economic prospects, military strength, etc.) South Africa was better off 20 years ago than it is today. One theory is that those "previously ignored people" really fucked things up once you started listening to them. Or it could just be a coincidence.

No. I didn't try to defend it I just gave you the truth and the reality. I tell a thing as it is. What's the point in making up shit trying to hide things?

No it wasn't better. Just the reported crimes of the other 70 million of the population was ignored compared to today. There's nothing better in oppression and denying people the freedom of speech and such. :biggrin: