Window for Palestinian state 'rapidly closing': EU

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randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
And just so you're not mistaken, I'm utterly and equally disgusted with every faction of Palestinian politics. The level of corruption wrought by foreign influence and aid money is unfathomable. I recall a report from a new Palestinian Finance Minister taking office a few years ago where he cited ~1 billion USD in squandered or missing aid money at the hands of both Fatah and Hamas. While Israel may be guilty of marginalizing Palestinians, sadly, the Palestinians in charge are guilty as well.

Arafat made the Forbes list for 6th richest head of state at $300 Million in 2003.

The Israelis said this number was closer to $1.3B in 2002 when Forbes said it was $200 million.

Either way the guy was a stand up act.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
It doesn't end with you, does it?

Because there are no other Arabs in the world who are still dealing with a government that refuses to acknowledge the fact that they even exist. Israel's "right to recognition" is flaunted, while Israel conveniently ignores the reality of recognizing the people they took the land from. I'm not asking them to (or you) to recognize any wrongdoing, I'm asking you to recognize several million people, who quite frankly, want nothing more than sovereignty over what little they have left of their land. Nothing more than dignity instead of strip searches or road blocks. I speak as one of them.

And like I said, the majority of Arabs live in those conditions or worse. Some of them are being wholesale exterminated by their governments right now. The Israelis are just trying to make them feel at home.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I totally agree with Kylebisme here, if Israel wishes to regard the West Bank as DISPUTED territory pending a mutually negotiated agreement by Israel and the Palestinian people, than BOTH ISRAEL and the Palestinians equally have no rights to NO NEW SETTLEMENTS on DISPUTED TERRITORY. And that includes EAST JERUSALEM ALSO.

You know this would mean none of the Palestinians could build new homes, right?

If the Palestinians can build homes in these areas, so can the Israelis. They are disputed territories, since they were conquered from no High Contracting Party.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Arafat made the Forbes list for 6th richest head of state at $300 Million in 2003.

The Israelis said this number was closer to $1.3B in 2002 when Forbes said it was $200 million.

Either way the guy was a stand up act.

Well that's just capitalism. As an effective leader he's worth that much on the labor market.
 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,491
2
0
And like I said, the majority of Arabs live in those conditions or worse. Some of them are being wholesale exterminated by their governments right now. The Israelis are just trying to make them feel at home.

Non-sequitur. You don't like Arabs much, do you?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
You know this would mean none of the Palestinians could build new homes, right?

If the Palestinians can build homes in these areas, so can the Israelis. They are disputed territories, since they were conquered from no High Contracting Party.
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Once again a bogus argument ctbrsage, Palestinians are not able to afford to build new homes given Israeli embargoes of their economy, Palestinians are simply being evicted from the homes they had, so illegitimate Israeli settlers can build homes on Palestinian property as Israel illegitimately claims sovereignty over DISPUTED TERRITORY.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
I may have my Walter Middy plans to Rob the first National bank, Fort Knox, and why I am at I lust after Fred Thompson's wife because she is hot hot hot.

Plans are at best thought crimes, but until thoughts are implemented into illegal actions, the initial thoughts mean nothing.

And cheer up EK, the Pentagon has current contingency plans to attack and overwhelm Israel and every other nations on earth too. So do the British, the Russians, the Turks, the Iranians, and quite a large list of military powers.

But in 1967, Israel had equal plans and the distinction is, Israel acted on their plans while the Jordanians did not.

In short, EK, you have no valid argument. But once again you convinced your self.

Your problem EK, while world tolerance for Israeli bullshit erodes ever more rapidly every day, you fail to convince the very world leaders who will ultimately make the crucial decisions regarding a Palestinians state, an Israeli settlement freeze, and other mid-east issues.

Jordan attacked Israel/Jerusalem along Government Heights. Israel warned them to stop. Hussien told Israel the equivalent that the die was cast and continued the attacks.

Now if you wish to defend the Arab position of being innocents, that is your pedigree.

Your Palestinian state does still not exist because of their actions.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
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Once again a bogus argument ctbrsage, Palestinians are not able to afford to build new homes given Israeli embargoes of their economy...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...whew...breath....whew....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yeah...cannot afford to build homes...sure. Here, take a peek at the mall built in 2010 in the Gaza strip






They are horribly poor...yeah, sure...
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Non-sequitur. You don't like Arabs much, do you?

I'm fairly indifferent. I just get tired of the constant squawking by Palestinians that somehow makes it to the mainstream media. The quickest way to end it is to end the Palestinians, so someone should just get on with it. Letting the same problem drag on for 50 years is just ridiculous. You'd think someone could come up with some sort of final solution by now.


No sanction now, but be aware this rhetoric does violate the posting guidelines and in the coming weeks you are going to see enforcement of those guidelines. Better start breaking the bad habits now, before we are compelled to break them for you

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Condoning mass murder is hateful and obscene.

Administrator Idontcare
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...whew...breath....whew....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yeah...cannot afford to build homes...sure. Here, take a peek at the mall built in 2010 in the Gaza strip

They are horribly poor...yeah, sure...

They're so rich that their womens' dresses (no doubt made of mink fur, diamonds and other enormously expensive materials) aren't even normal sized, but extended at the tops and bottoms to cover their hair, face and legs! Talk about conspicuous consumption! Freakin' Palestinian 1%ers.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
I'm fairly indifferent. I just get tired of the constant squawking by Palestinians that somehow makes it to the mainstream media. The quickest way to end it is to end the Palestinians, so someone should just get on with it. Letting the same problem drag on for 50 years is just ridiculous. You'd think someone could come up with some sort of final solution by now.

 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,491
2
0
I'm fairly indifferent. I just get tired of the constant squawking by Palestinians that somehow makes it to the mainstream media. The quickest way to end it is to end the Palestinians, so someone should just get on with it. Letting the same problem drag on for 50 years is just ridiculous. You'd think someone could come up with some sort of final solution by now.



When you are there? So you actually live in the US and visit there.

Yes. I haven't been for two years, but I hope to go again once I have my bachelor's degree. I'm usually there for 2 months in the summer. I hold a green, "Palestinian" identification card, and the US passport I got for being born here. My parents are naturalized US citizens, my father is a 1948 refugee, my mother's family is from Bethlehem. I often have to travel from Ramallah to Bethlehem, and the change in the journey over the past 15 years has been quite noticeable. It used to take 15 minutes, and a nice chat with an Israeli policeman, who usually let us by in a Palestinian vehicle, after noticing that we were a family visiting family, or even Jerusalem. Now it takes two hours, and involves some unsavory interactions with the border patrol and IDF. One of the conscripts was nice once, he had an American pack of Marlboros, and was very :biggrin: about it, stopping cars, and making the smokers hang out and enjoy "some good cigs." Guy spoke fairly fluent Arabic as well, and was way too happy to be working a checkpoint.

Most of the time, the soldiers staffing the checkpoints within the West Bank are dicks. Thankfully, from what I can tell, I've only had to deal with the "moderate ones." The women at the border crossings (between Jordan and the West Bank) are usually extremely nice. Hell, the whole staff is. They only get riled up at the more, old-fashioned travelers, with tons of bags, fresh food, etc. I travel light, they push me through in <1 hr.

They're so rich that their womens' dresses (no doubt made of mink fur, diamonds and other enormously expensive materials) aren't even normal sized, but extended at the tops and bottoms to cover their hair, face and legs! Talk about conspicuous consumption! Freakin' Palestinian 1%ers.

Your bigotry is showing.

Jesus christ, why do we even HAVE a no-fly list if we're going to let people like that fly?

If it makes you any happier, I get randomly selected for a search fairly frequently. I also get strip searched in Tel Aviv. Once I got strip searched by someone who could have only been Ben Stiller's distant relative. Same height, facial expressions, face, voice, accent, just a little older and balder. I didn't bring it up with him, well, since he had his hands in my pants, kind of hard to make small talk in that situation.


Yeah he's serious.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
As now the EK argument becomes, only Arabs and Palestinians did evil acts, as two Israeli PM's were card carrying terrorists and mass murders. How far will we take the blame game back? Well I always thought Cain slaying Able was an Israeli action, and Nero was a rat fink too, they are still all in a distant and unchangeable past, and we that are rational today need to discard past baggage and search for what is fair now.

Its in that area, that the current Israeli PM, Bozo Netanyuhu, is now rapidly losing all world respect as he takes Israeli politics into to crazy la la land. Already the blame game is working against Israel, so its a very dangerous game for Israel to play. Just a year ago Israel could count on some support from Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, and the EU. And if Bozo Netanyuhu demand the USA jumps to only Israel's tune, ole Bozo done bet the entire farm on retaining US support no matter whatever Israeli stupidly act Netanyuhu commits.
 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,491
2
0
As now the EK argument becomes, only Arabs and Palestinians did evil acts, as two Israeli PM's were card carrying terrorists and mass murders. How far will we take the blame game back? Well I always thought Cain slaying Able was an Israeli action, and Nero was a rat fink too, they are still all in a distant and unchangeable past, and we that are rational today need to discard past baggage and search for what is fair now.

Its in that area, that the current Israeli PM, Bozo Netanyuhu, is now rapidly losing all world respect as he takes Israeli politics into to crazy la la land. Already the blame game is working against Israel, so its a very dangerous game for Israel to play. Just a year ago Israel could count on some support from Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, and the EU. And if Bozo Netanyuhu demand the USA jumps to only Israel's tune, ole Bozo done bet the entire farm on retaining US support no matter whatever Israeli stupidly act Netanyuhu commits.

Ignoring the name calling, the US and Israeli governments are in an election season, so that dynamic will soon change. The nature of Netanyahu's coalition will change if he is re-elected, as will Obama's Congress.

Egypt is far too busy with their own problems to worry about Israel.

King Abdullah is very complacent, don't expect anything from him. He's also got his own problems to worry about.

Turkey doesn't like Israel very much anymore.

The EU is growing displeased, but they won't do anything about it. Not their problem.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
I wish you Peace, and I wish Peace upon you. Perhaps some lessons in spelling, logic, and rhetoric as well.

Your statement makes no factual claims, and doesn't frame an argument. It's more of the same. What of the Palestinians when they had no elected government (which is not sovereign! by any international or exterior definition, their government is anything but! it's a thinly veiled replacement for the Israeli Civil Administration, and you and I know this). Whose fault was it then? Between 1967 and 1994. Who was responsible for their peril? Themselves?

No lessons in spelling......english is not my first language. Before I learned English, I spoke at least 5 languages fluently - including Hebrew and several Arab dialects and Polish and Russian.....so if spelling is an issue then deal with it.....

First I would ask why the Palestinian people didn`t step up to the plate themselves between 1967 and 1994......seems to me like you are crying over spilled milk.....or missed opportunity....

Looks to me like the people who call themselves Palestinian want to blame everything that happens on the Israeli`s, but don`t want to take responsibility for their own actions or for the actions of their government.......
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Yes. I haven't been for two years, but I hope to go again once I have my bachelor's degree. I'm usually there for 2 months in the summer. I hold a green, "Palestinian" identification card, and the US passport I got for being born here.

You are an American who PRETENDS to be a Palestinian! That explains a lot. You were born and raised in the US and visit Palestine every now and again for a little bit.

Wow...and here you lead us all to believe you were actually from Gaza. Heh, pretty good one, you can stop the charade now.
 

mrSHEiK124

Lifer
Mar 6, 2004
11,491
2
0
You are an American who PRETENDS to be a Palestinian! That explains a lot. You were born and raised in the US and visit Palestine every now and again for a little bit.

Wow...and here you lead us all to believe you were actually from Gaza. Heh, pretty good one, you can stop the charade now.

Really? Are American born Israelis pretending? I'm not an American according to, oh, 30-40% of America. I should just go back where I came from, hmm?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
What you quoted from Wiki leaves out what I recounted in my previous post, and which is described in the Wiki section here.

What you fail to understand or what you have failed to understand and this is the reason why wikipedia is not allowed in quite a few colleges is the disclaimer -- Welcome to Wikipedia,

the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

I have seen as many as 3 different versions of a historical event on wikipedia.....
So just because you claim to be filling in the gaps doesn`t exactly mean that you are not just posting somebody else`s ideas of the same event...lol
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Ignoring the name calling, the US and Israeli governments are in an election season, so that dynamic will soon change. The nature of Netanyahu's coalition will change if he is re-elected, as will Obama's Congress.

Egypt is far too busy with their own problems to worry about Israel.

King Abdullah is very complacent, don't expect anything from him. He's also got his own problems to worry about.

Turkey doesn't like Israel very much anymore.

The EU is growing displeased, but they won't do anything about it. Not their problem.
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What you say makes some current sense, and explains why world change is often glacially slow. But if Bozo Netanyuhu tries to preemptively bomb Iran and continues to endorse Israeli acts of murder all over the mid-east, we may all see how rapid change can be.

As it is, Hamas is one of the main beneficiaries of the Arab Spring. As Egypt no longer actively supports the Israeli embargo of the Gaza. As the economy of Gaza has improved from horrible to merely substandard. With a future hope that continued Egyptian support for Gaza may eliminate the need for smuggling Tunnels.

At at the same time, Gazan violence against Israel has not increased in any way. Meanwhile The PA and the Arab league will get votes on Israeli statehood in the general assembly in the near future. With the EU increasing hostile towards continuing Israeli settlements in disputed territory. Meanwhile King Abdullal of Jordon is growing increasingly disgusted with Israel as he too may refuse to enforce any Israeli embargo of the West Bank.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Really? Are American born Israelis pretending? I'm not an American according to, oh, 30-40% of America. I should just go back where I came from, hmm?

Heh. Must mean Netanyahu is pretending, too, since he was born in Pennsylvania...
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Really? Are American born Israelis pretending? I'm not an American according to, oh, 30-40% of America. I should just go back where I came from, hmm?

actually you can call yourself what you please....if you were not born where you claim then you are not what you claim.

I am Jewish......because I am Jewish and met the requirements I have citizenship in Israel..my son serves in the IDF.

I do not claim to be Israeli! That is IMO reserved for those born in Israel.

I am very pro-Israel though and will always be!

There is no such thing as an American born Israeli!!
There are American born Jews. Thus having a Jewish heritage and a traceable lineage they can apply for Jewish Citizenship.....

Obtaining dual citizenship in Israel is singular and unique in that any person born in any country who is Jewish can travel to Israel and become a citizen of the state without going through a long naturalization period.
 
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