Windows 7 32 bit won't see all of 4GB DDR2?

[Muse]

Just bought 2x 2GB DDR2 sticks to upgrade my Acer Aspire 6530-6522 laptop, running Windows Home Premium 32 bit, currently with 3GB DDR2 (the 4GB of DDR2 hasn't arrived yet). I got my free upgrade disk for Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit, but haven't installed it yet.

In another forum I'm told this:


http://gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=3950&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
It's a limit of 32 bit operating systems, depending on the hardware and software config, with 4GB installed, the OS will generally only see between 2.8 and 3.35 GB of the 4GB.
***************

Is this true? Do I have to upgrade to Windows 7 64 bit (or Vista 64 bit) to take advantage of my ram upgrade?

 

[Blazer]

been discussed to death, all 32 bit os see less than 4gb, since its a new install go 64 bit, really no reason not to as 32 bit applications will run on it unless its a really old application.

 

[SimMike2]

I would not go out and spend big money on a 64bit install of Windows 7 to get about 0.7GB of more ram. The difference between 3GB and 4GB is not very much, at least for almost all normal users. Since you got your free Win7 upgrade, just install it and accept the minor limitation, just like everyone else in the same boat. This is more of a problem that you would never actually be able to notice in the real world, but is instead a problem that bugs people because someone else tells them to be bugged about it.

Now if you had 6GB or 8GB of ram, then for sure go 64bit. For your situation, just go with what you have.

 

[notposting]

You could try finding a 64bit copy that will work your key--usually the keys aren't dependent but the oem versions might be.

Maybe check out forum.notebookreview.com and see if anyone has tried that.

 

[SimMike2]

I got the "upgrade" version of Windows 7. It came with two disks, 32bit and 64bit. So I'm not sure if both versions are on one disk or not. But, I only got one install key that would work with both versions. So if you have a friend that got the upgrade, you might ask to borrow his 64bit disk and try your install key.

My disks both say "upgrade", so if you got the same kind of disk, the above scenario will probably work.

 

[Lepard]

Keys are interchangeable between versions. Just note that you cannot upgrade from a 32-bit install to a 64-bit install.

 

[Muse]

You could try finding a 64bit copy that will work your key--usually the keys aren't dependent but the oem versions might be.

Maybe check out forum.notebookreview.com and see if anyone has tried that.

The Windows 7 upgrade disk they sent me has a product key on the packaging. It does NOT contain "-OEM-", a string which is embedded in the "Product ID" shown for the Vista Home Premium that came on the laptop (I see that key in Control Panel/System).

So, maybe the key provided with W7HP 32 bit will work with a W7HP 64 bit install. I'll see if I can get my hands on such a disk. Then again, I belong to a professional group where I stand a decent chance of winning a copy of Windows 7 at a group meeting (door prize, and it's a small group). I won several Vista Ultimate 32&64 bit in the recent past (sold em all one at a time on ebay). Well, maybe MS needed to clear out their warehouse.

Keys are interchangeable between versions. Just note that you cannot upgrade from a 32-bit install to a 64-bit install.

If I do this I'll go the clean install route.

 

[SimMike2]

Keys are interchangeable between versions. Just note that you cannot upgrade from a 32-bit install to a 64-bit install.

It will do a pseudo "clean install" by copying all your old files to a directly called windows.old. So you can use the upgrade disk, it just won't be doing an in-place upgrade. This means you need to reinstall all your programs and stuff.

 

[Nothinman]

been discussed to death, all 32 bit os see less than 4gb,

And even after the horse has been beaten to death people still believe this, which is false. Any 32-bit that fully supports PAE can address >4G of physical memory. The 4G limitation in 32-bit Windows clients is an artificial limit placed there by MS.

 

[Muse]

And even after the horse has been beaten to death people still believe this, which is false. Any 32-bit that fully supports PAE can address >4G of physical memory. The 4G limitation in 32-bit Windows clients is an artificial limit placed there by MS.

Um, so my laptop with 32 bit Vista HP or 32 bit Windows 7 HP will see all 4 GB?

 

[thescreensavers]

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,188


And how do you not know this? lol

 

[Muse]

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,188


And how do you not know this? lol

Well, I'm a busy guy. Sorry. I might know a few things that you don't know.

 

[Nothinman]

Um, so my laptop with 32 bit Vista HP or 32 bit Windows 7 HP will see all 4 GB?

No, it's an artificial limitation placed there by MS but it's still a limitation. 32-bit versions of Windows Server Enterprise and up, Linux, FreeBSD, etc all can use >4G of memory with PAE enabled but not 32-bit Windows clients.

 

[thescreensavers]

Well, I'm a busy guy. Sorry. I might know a few things that you don't know.

I guess your right, but this is a tech forum you know!

 

[Muse]

No, it's an artificial limitation placed there by MS but it's still a limitation. 32-bit versions of Windows Server Enterprise and up, Linux, FreeBSD, etc all can use >4G of memory with PAE enabled but not 32-bit Windows clients.

So, MS has limited 32 bit Windows to the extent that it can't even see 4GB?

 

[Muse]

I guess your right, but this is a tech forum you know!

I try to be technically aware. I'm far more so than most people. There's nobody in my extended family who can touch me for that, but I'm fully aware that there are a lot of people who know an awful lot more than me in a lot of technical areas. I'm ambitious about pursuing knowledge about technology, very ambitious. I don't shy away from it. I devour a lot of technical information, but even so, I'm pretty weak in a lot of areas. Again, sorry if I seem "retarded." Oh, I'm not supposed to use that word. Sarah Palin said so.

 

[Nothinman]

So, MS has limited 32 bit Windows to the extent that it can't even see 4GB?

The limit is exactly at the 4G mark for physical memory. However, your BIOS maps some of those physical memory addresses to hardware for things like MMIO to devices starting at 4G and working it's way down. Most BIOSes have an option to remap that "lost" memory above the 4G mark so it can be used, however since 32-bit Windows clients won't touch a physical memory address >4G it doesn't help unless you're running another OS or a 64-bit Windows client.

 

[Muse]

The limit is exactly at the 4G mark for physical memory. However, your BIOS maps some of those physical memory addresses to hardware for things like MMIO to devices starting at 4G and working it's way down. Most BIOSes have an option to remap that "lost" memory above the 4G mark so it can be used, however since 32-bit Windows clients won't touch a physical memory address >4G it doesn't help unless you're running another OS or a 64-bit Windows client.

OK, thanks. So, if I understand you correctly, there's still a considerable gain in moving my 32 bit Windows machine from 3GB physical memory to 4GB physical memory. I assume that a significant portion of the 3GB that's in there now is mapped by the BIOS just as it will be with 4GB. That should, it appears, give me another 1GB for software to run in. Is that correct?

 

[Blazer]

whatever, the ops guestion was

' Is this true? Do I have to upgrade to Windows 7 64 bit (or Vista 64 bit) to take advantage of my ram upgrade? '

pae or not it wont be available for win 7 32bit, period, i seen no where is the post about the server side.

 

[Nothinman]

OK, thanks. So, if I understand you correctly, there's still a considerable gain in moving my 32 bit Windows machine from 3GB physical memory to 4GB physical memory. I assume that a significant portion of the 3GB that's in there now is mapped by the BIOS just as it will be with 4GB. That should, it appears, give me another 1GB for software to run in. Is that correct?

It depends, if you've got hardware that adds up to 1G of MMIO addresses then it won't make a difference at all because you'll still be stuck at 3G. Frankly, there's no reason not to use 64-bit Windows other than old hardware that lacks drivers.

pae or not it wont be available for win 7 32bit, period, i seen no where is the post about the server side.

Because people keep parroting "all 32-bit OSes won't see 4G" which is patently untrue. In fact it's quite the opposite, the majority of them aren't crippled can fully use PAE.

 

[Muse]

It depends, if you've got hardware that adds up to 1G of MMIO addresses then it won't make a difference at all because you'll still be stuck at 3G. Frankly, there's no reason not to use 64-bit Windows other than old hardware that lacks drivers.

In the scenario with 32 bit Windows and 3GB, won't "hardware that adds up to 1G of MMIO addresses" use "up to 1G" of that 3GB leaving as little as 2GB for other purposes? Simple arithmetic, or am I misunderstanding this?

In my case the "reason not to use 64-bit Windows" is just that I don't have access to the disk. My product key (according to posters in this thread) will probably work with it, but the disk I have is the 32 bit version. :\

 

[Nothinman]

In the scenario with 32 bit Windows and 3GB, won't "hardware that adds up to 1G of MMIO addresses" use "up to 1G" of that 3GB leaving as little as 2GB for other purposes? Simple arithmetic, or am I misunderstanding this?

No, the addresses used for devices starts at 4G no matter how much physical memory that you have. That's why this wasn't a problem until people started passing the 4G of physical memory mark.

So if you have 1G worth of MMIO addresses and 3G of physical memory you won't notice any problems. But if you have 4G of memory you'll still only see 3G in Windows.

 

[Muse]

No, the addresses used for devices starts at 4G no matter how much physical memory that you have. That's why this wasn't a problem until people started passing the 4G of physical memory mark.

So if you have 1G worth of MMIO addresses and 3G of physical memory you won't notice any problems. But if you have 4G of memory you'll still only see 3G in Windows.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this. What do you make of this site that explains and links patches to enable more than 4GB addressable memory for x86 Vista and Windows 7:

http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2009/08/19/make-windows-7-and-vista-32-bit-x86-support-more-than-4gb-memory/

 

[Nothinman]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this. What do you make of this site that explains and links patches to enable more than 4GB addressable memory for x86 Vista and Windows 7:

http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2009/08/19/make-windows-7-and-vista-32-bit-x86-support-more-than-4gb-memory/

I just scanned the page so maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't explain anything other than saying MS did it intentionally and that it's a licensing issue, which technically is correct since they used Windows licensing to enforce the limit but they did it to "protect" you from poorly written drivers.

 

[Muse]

I just scanned the page so maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't explain anything other than saying MS did it intentionally and that it's a licensing issue, which technically is correct since they used Windows licensing to enforce the limit but they did it to "protect" you from poorly written drivers.

Do you think those patches work and will extend the capabilities of the the 32 bit OS's to utilize installed RAM?