Windows 7, SSD, and Trim

[tcsenter]

Is trim functionality (how the heck does it work and WHEN) on Windows 7 possibly the worst documented in history? Can't find any decent authoritative explanation of trim functionality in Windows 7.

I bought a couple used SK Hynix 256GB MLC SSD (mSATA interface from notebooks), manufactured in 2014. They are made for Dell, so the SK Hynix SSD Manager utility - intended for SK Hynix own-brand drives - only supports some features, mostly reporting drive health, SMART, and what features are enabled/disabled (but not allowing configuration). e.g. Secure Erase and Sanitize are not available. Drive health is reported as excellent.

I am connecting them via mSATA (and M.2) to SATA adapter, on desktop motherboard with Intel H97 chipset, as secondary drives NOT boot, system, or pagefile. Simple NTFS volumes (GPT), no RAID. Windows 7 x64 PRO is up-to-date, latest Intel AHCI drivers for the H97 chipset, AHCI controller mode in BIOS. In BIOS, the drive "type" is set to SSD (which I presume might be relevant so that BIOS Int services won't muck with commands that are appropriate for SSD) everything else is auto-config. Trim is enabled in Windows confirmed by multiple utilities. The SK Hynix utility reports the drive supports Trim and is enabled. The Intel RST utility reports the SSD properly (as SSD), with NCQ and all that enabled. I updated SSD firmware to latest available from Dell, which is based on the latest available from SK Hynix. Ran extended SMART self-test and completed with no errors.

So I test the drive(s) by copying over 200+ GB data (some 70K files total), ran chkdsk on file system only, no media scan, to make sure all was kosher with file system, MFT, after all those writes. No errors found. Then deleted everything from the drive (used delete to Recycle Bin, then made sure to empty Recycle Bin). Waited a couple minutes, ran Recuva in quick scan on the drive to note how many of the deleted files were still recoverable, which was almost all of them. Then I left the computer for about 45 minutes. During this time, nothing was running in the background, no apps open I even killed things in the background like security/antivirus program (disabled). Windows power management is configured to sleep the PC after two hours, hard drives configured to turn down after one hour. So nothing should have been running except essential Windows services, invoking idle-time maintenance tasks. Which is when Trim is supposed to run, right?

Nope. I came back after 45 minutes, PC was still awake, and checked the drive with Recuva. Nearly all those files were still detected and recoverable! I didn't actually test recovering but Recuva reported "excellent" integrity or probability for recovering most of the files (about 90% of them). I restarted the PC, used it some (internet and browsing), then decided to leave it again for the full two hours before Windows goes to sleep (making sure nothing would be running except essential Windows stuff, just like before).

This morning, most of the files were still listed recoverable (excellent integrity) though definitely fewer of them, about 60%. Even though the file data may not have been recoverable, most file names and some details were discoverable or listed correctly, so looks like the drive's internal GC may be working (slooowly) but not Trim?

I then used Diskpart to "clean" the disk, created new NTFS simple volume (GPT) with quick format. That seemed to work, ran Recuva on the drive and the only files or data it found were the hidden NTFS-related stuff.

I am of the belief that Trim should have been invoked/completed on that drive given how much prolonged idle time opportunity was provided. Am I wrong?

The only thing I can think of is that the mSATA to SATA adapter might be the problem but that is unlikely since this adapter is "chip-less". It doesn't need a converter chipset because all it's doing is adapting the voltage (and clock). No drivers are required for the adapter it's not even recognized as a device.

 

[deustroop]

Forcetrim is a small app, offered to trim a qualifying Windows 7 ssd, which I have not used. Using it would allow one to compare deletion potential between format, force trim and Windows7 own trim operation. This will help confirm whether 7 is a lazy trimmer.

http://www.thessdreview.com/forums/threads/forcetrim-an-excellent-little-proggie-that-works.2647/

 

[tcsenter]

Forcetrim is a small app, offered to trim a qualifying Windows 7 ssd, which I have not used. Using it would allow one to compare deletion potential between format, force trim and Windows7 own trim operation. This will help confirm whether 7 is a lazy trimmer.

Got around to trying it (had downloaded it a few days ago). Ran it before dinner, came back 30 minutes later, closed the proggy and ran CrystalDiskMark. Sequential performance (normal, non-queued) increased about 50%, both reads and writes! The other benches are interface transfer limited since both SSD are operating in SATA 3.0Gbps rather than 6.0 Gbps that should be supported, for some reason. Maybe the adapter, or possibly Dell ordered them limited to 3.0 for better thermal dissipation and power consumption. That's not unheard of for laptops. Apple does it on Macbooks, or has in the past.

Anyway, thanks! I'm gonna switch in the other SSD and run it.

 

[tcsenter]

Hmmm....OK I was comparing to the wrong benchmark results. Performance benefit after ForceTrim was very modest, not as I had stated before. I have a spare PC (2013 era hardware) with Windows 8.1 or 10 installed. I'm going to try there and test on OS that was built from the start with SSD and Trim awareness. I am developing the impression though it may be the SSD controller itself that is very slowww with GC and trim operation (runs at relative low priority, even with prolonged super-low I/O utilization it does not elevate just keeps running along at constant low priority).

 

[deustroop]

Hmmm....OK I was comparing to the wrong benchmark results. Performance benefit after ForceTrim was very modest, not as I had stated before. I have a spare PC (2013 era hardware) with Windows 8.1 or 10 installed. I'm going to try there and test on OS that was built from the start with SSD and Trim awareness. I am developing the impression though it may be the SSD controller itself that is very slowww with GC and trim operation (runs at relative low priority, even with prolonged super-low I/O utilization it does not elevate just keeps running along at constant low priority).

Ok. let us know, its an interesting issue.

 

[tcsenter]

Well I don't think I've learned anything, other than trim functionality in Win7 is mysterious? Trimmed both drives successfully using Windows 10 'optimize' button. Only thing I noted is that one drive seemed to "hang" on 66% trimmed, about 20 full seconds (I began to think it died or something), before proceeding to completion. Then on a successive test, trim progressed swimmingly only took about six or seven seconds. Still don't know what to think but the SSD is eventually going into laptops that run Windows 10, anyway. Both have passed extended SMART self-test and report excellent health metrics so I'm gonna stop messing with them before I rack-up another 600GB host writes.

Thanks for responding!

 

[deustroop]

ok, thx for the feedback

 

[aviator79]

All the tools you mentioned, showing "trim enabled" are only confirming the "capability to perform TRIM".
if you realy, realy, like for sure, want to verify TRIM is not only active, but WORKING - use this:
simple and most effective tool to check. I check TRIM with this on every single drive I install in any PC, Notebook or whatever.
https://github.com/CyberShadow/trimcheck

if you need a compiled version:
http://files.thecybershadow.net/trimcheck/trimcheck-0.7.exe